Radio etiquette

[Guest Remy1492]

Ok, Copilot pointed it out now it is bothering the HELL out of me, like neurotically.

All over OIF it seems mostly C-17 types and all guys, no girls on the radios.

Its the classic response to center or a request but the person starts the sentence with a slurred and drawn out ".........eeeeaaaaand"

Like: "Ali ctr reach ### requests 230"

-"roger reach ###, following tamim expect direct as well"

-........."eeeeaaaaand we'll be looking for direct tamim, roger"

Now everytime I hear somebody starting off with "eeeeeaaaand" I turn into the neurotic kid on southpark.

Where are my crazy pills?

[Guest FlyingAgain]

yea, that's annoying. just take a second or two to think about what you're gonna say instead of using a filler like 'aaaaand.'

And while people are at it, stop saying 'good morning, houston center, bla, bla, bla...' there are other people out there trying to use the radios when you're dumbing it up like some 55yr old 747 captain.

[Chuck17]

Yeah... "aaaaaand" Id have to say that 9/10 of those guys are reservists who ARENT flying for the airlines at the moment. Just one of my pet peaves as well...

[Guest rotorhead]

I get your neurosis...my current peeve is "copy"

When I hear one of my students use "copy",

I hit him with "10-4 good buddy, hammer down, rubber duck..."

"Copy" sounds like a bunch of cops...

I'm hearing "copy" more and more...the other night, when backing away from the MC-130 hose/drogue, I needed to ensure separation from my wingman prior to sliding...I queried the gunner "AM I CLEAR TO SLIDE LEFT" the answer was "COPY". After restating the question 3 times, I had to finally say "REPLY TO ME WITH AFFIRMATIVE, CLEAR, OR YES SIR, but NOT COPY"

[KickChick21]

From an ATC point of view:

I HATE when someone uses "roger" or "copy" in place of "affirmative". "Roger" does not mean "yes". I repeat, "roger" does not mean "yes". That's one of the most annoying things I hear on the radio. That and excessive breathing on the frequency...what the @* are you guys doing in the cockpit?! :eek:

"eeeaaaaaannnnndddd" isn't annoying to me; it's just funny. I hear it a lot from pilots of heavies and C-130s; I've NEVER heard it from a fighter. They always sound like they're on speed or doing an impression of Cornholio.

Example: "Eagle 11, check wheels down, wind 230 @ 11, cleared low approach. "EAGLE11ROGERGEARDOWNCLEAREDLOWAPPROACH"

As far as "wilco" goes, this is from the Pilot/Controller Glossary for the AIM and FAAO 7110.65-Air Traffic Control (non-military regs):

"WILCO- I have received your message, understand it, and will comply with it."

So is there anything controllers say that drive pilots nuts?

[ 23. May 2005, 05:15: Message edited by: KickChick21 ]

[Scooter14]

...aaaaaaaand

Originally posted by KickChick21:

That and excessive breathing on the frequency...what the @* are you guys doing in the cockpit?! :eek:

At UPT, the Tweet runway has a mini tower called an RSU. In addition to controlling the pattern and verbally bashing the students in the aircraft and working in the RSU box, the controllers would write down little acronyms to be debriefed the next morning or by the Sup after the flightif you were solo. FT=Firm Touchdown IF=Incomplete Flare, etc. There was a legend in your flight room to decode all these 2-4 letter codes.

One guy gets back from a solo, and in addition to all his comments, has HPOR on his card. He searches to no avail. He goes back to the Sup who informs him that it stands for Heavy Panting On Radio.

Apparently, he keyed his mic inadvertently on downwind and sounded like an obscene phone caller.

He was solo, so who knows what he was doing.

[ 23. May 2005, 06:58: Message edited by: PAB ]

[Chuck17]

"IS THERE ANYTHING THAT DRIVES US NUTS???"

The one I can think of for you tower controllers out there...

When a C-17 comes in for a landing, especially at a downrange location, we hit the Thrust Reversers and hit them hard. DO NOT TALK TO US OR GIVE US INSTRUCTIONS WHILE WE ARE ON LANDING ROLLOUT, no matter if its at home or Frankfurt or downrange until you see us slowing down... Just 10 seconds is all Im asking you to wait... I really cant describe with enough emotion what its like to miss all of your taxi clear instructions and forcing yourself to ask for a repeat because the guys in the tower cant hold on just a few secs to talk to you... this is especially true at a busy base because it makes us sound like we werent listening or we are idiots or something. Most of the time its because they dont realize how LOUD or TR's are but when they're deployed and power is up, I cant hear a word you are babbling to me about which taxiway to turn off on or who to contact for ground... so theres one thing that drives me nuts.

Chuck

[LJDRVR]

And while people are at it, stop saying 'good morning, houston center, bla, bla, bla...' there are other people out there trying to use the radios when you're dumbing it up like some 55yr old 747 captain. [/QB]

Yeah, a little courtesy is highly inappropriate and un-professional. Lighten up Francais. I've been flying professionally since 95', and I've never had an issue with center frequency congestion because somebody was saying hello, good morning, howdy, on-board or whatever. Maybe you should tell the controllers to stop doing it also as you obviously know so much more than all of us.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

It is a $5 kaching to say "Sir" on the radio to any controller.

Some guys like to use the transmit button as a "Push to Think" button. Quite annoying.

I have an issue with guys using VHF in the traffic pattern when there are fighters around. This was a HUGE problem when we first showed up at Pope with A-10s. We asked the C-130 guys to come up on UHF when talking to tower. It was like we were asking for their first born son. We just wanted everyone on the same freq. 90% of the fighter guys said in their safety survey that the next accident would be midair in the pattern. A bad thing happened eventually did happen. The two aircraft were not on the same freq and there was SA lost because of it. VHF/UHF radio transmissions were not the only reason for this mishap but I believe a very costly mistake may have been avoided if everyone was listening to each other.

There was also a ton of pushack at Pope when we requested a separate clnc del freq. It was almost impossible to request taxi between all the clnc read backs. the heavy guys wanted to stick with the "do everything on ground" gameplan. I never understood why they would want to listen to all that crap.

Everyone has to talk on UHF in the pattern at Nellis. It is amazing that some of the heavies will talk on UHF to AWACS during the vul period, change to VHF when they switch to Nellis Control on their way back from the airspace and come back up on UHF when they switch to tower (only because Nellis Control should not offer a VHF freq when they hand off to tower). I have never understood why anyone would rather let the controllers deconflict them without listening to the other aircraft/flight check in with their position on the recovery and at least build a mind's eye picture of where the guy is.

A good solution for hearing less annoying crap on the radio is to use UHF freqs when talking to ATC in the PCA. There are no goofy grape herbavore airline guys on UHF and you only have to listen to 1/2 the total radio transmissions.

So is there anything controllers say that drive pilots nuts?

Yes. I hate it when the controllers give me multiple changes to my routing. Two weeks ago I was leading the jets back from a deployment and I got changes to my clnc five times, everytime I changed center freq, once I got on with Washington center. This happens every single time I'm coming back into the NE corridor. I don't hear them giving the quiche eating airline guys new clnc. I have tried to file every single type of routing I can think of but I ALWAYS get a bunch of clnc changes. This last time the guy read me a clnc that was a combination of jet routes, low fixes and victor airways. It's a singel seat fighter, not a freakin' library! I asked for a descent to 17K and cancelled at 17.9. I flew the rest ot the way home direct at 17.5 talking to the same Wash, NY and Boston center controllers for flight following and never heard a word except "advise me of any altitude changes". Amazing.

Another thing I hate is "engine start approved". If I am calling for clnc or taxi, my engines are already running. I'm not going to call for clnc, get my clnc, study my route for a while and then crank 'em up. If I'm calling for clnc it means I am ready to taxi...I'll figure out any changes to my flight plan filed clnc on the way to the arming area.

[ 23. May 2005, 09:13: Message edited by: Rainman A-10 ]

[Gravedigger]

Originally posted by Rainman A-10:

Some guys like to use the transmit button as a "Push to Think" button. Quite annoying.

That is funny as hell. Did you make that up?

So is there anything controllers say that drive pilots nuts?

Every time I call one controller and tell them I have the information, they respond with something like "Cessna 5089G, continue for the left dwonwind 27, call me 3 miles NW, altimeter 29.92, wind 260 at 10, temperature 25." I could understand if this info was different from the ATIS, but if it's the same and I say I've got the info, don't waste time. Especially when others can't get a word in. I also dislike when the ATIS says "weather's better than 5000 and 5" almost every day in the summer.

[KickChick21]

Wow...can open, worms EVERYWHERE!

I can explain some of the ATC stuff:

Originally posted by Rainman A-10:

I have an issue with guys using VHF in the traffic pattern when there are fighters around.

I agree...a/c in the same pattern on different freqs makes me uneasy. At Pope, does the tower controller simulcast on the frequencies so you can at least hear what they're saying to the a/c on VHF? If not, you might suggest it to the Airfield Ops Commander or SOF, if you have one.

Another thing I hate is "engine start approved".

If you're getting that as a base assigned a/c, I don't know what to tell you...other than your controllers might be knuckleheads. If you get that as a transient, it's probably the standard-issue phraseology for taxiing a transient...it is at Lakenheath, although we omit it if the a/c has clearly already started engines.

Originally posted by c17wannabe:

Every time I call one controller and tell them I have the information, they respond with something like "Cessna 5089G, continue for the left dwonwind 27, call me 3 miles NW, altimeter 29.92, wind 260 at 10, temperature 25."

Don't know why they do that, unless you're only stating "I have the information", rather than "I have information Alpha". Maybe they're just bored cause they're working Cessnas. ;)

Originally posted by Beaver:

Here's something I hate: hearing "standby."

Would you rather hear "standby" or silence? Most likely the controller is doing his/her best not to "push to think".

Originally posted by c17wannabe:

I also dislike when the ATIS says "weather's better than 5000 and 5" almost every day in the summer.

We're required to. It's either that or every cloud layer and the exact vis value...personally I'd rather read "weather is better than 5000 and 5"

Chuck...I'll pass the words along about the RT on rollout.

Thanks guys, this is all good info to know...keep it comin!

[zrooster99]

non-military types saying "wilco" "tally-ho" "no joy" etc

Really? What are they supposed to say:

"OK I'll do what you said to" (WILCO = Will Comply)

"I see the airplane you're talking about" (tally)

"I don't see the airplane you're talking about" (no joy).

Just curious cause I grew up flying GA and as far as I can tell those phrases were created to help quicken/shorten up your radio calls which is important no matter what you fly. JMO

[Gravedigger]

KickChick, can you clear up the whole clearnace thing for me? Ex. I'd file GPS direct to Athens, and get cleared as filed except change route to read Victor Blah Blah, to intersection, then direct Athens. Is this because ground/clearance doesn't know what you filed, they only know the changes? Or are they just trying to get your hopes up by saying cleared as filed, and then changing everything?

zrooster, apparently I was wrong about wilco being a mil thing, but IMHO saying no joy, and tally, in a C-172 is . I typically say "traffic in sight" or "traffic not in sight" or "i've got the traffic" or "negative traffic."

[ 23. May 2005, 10:41: Message edited by: c17wannabe ]

[KickChick21]

KickChick, can you clear up the whole clearnace thing for me?

I wish I could help, but I've only worked traffic overseas, it's completely different from the states...and I've never worked clearance delivery as we don't have it at Lakenheath. I know that if there are changes to your route, they're required to say "cleared as filed, except" and then state the changes. Also, it's not the ground controller that's changing your clearance, it's the center controller or some controller along your route that has changed it and called to the tower and given them the changes to read to you.

[ 23. May 2005, 10:53: Message edited by: KickChick21 ]

[zrooster99]

zrooster, apparently I was wrong about wilco being a mil thing, but IMHO saying no joy, and tally, in a C-172 is . I typically say "traffic in sight" or "traffic not in sight" or "i've got the traffic" or "negative traffic."

You're entitled to your opinion...personally I say: "searching" if I don't see them or "CALLSIGN has traffic in sight" if I do, but the point is those calls were created for all pilots to save time on the radio. Up to you if you use them, but if it works for someone else, don't knock it.

[ 23. May 2005, 11:11: Message edited by: zrooster99 ]

[KickChick21]

Originally posted by Rainman A-10:

It is a $5 kaching to say "Sir" on the radio to any controller.

If you ever call me "sir" on the radio I will spin you until you're emergency fuel. :D

[Guest purplecaddis]

Originally posted by Rainman A-10:

I hate it when the controllers give me multiple changes to my routing. ... This happens every single time I'm coming back into the NE corridor.

Filing a flight plan in the NE is a guess at best you can not out guess them. Anytime I fly out there as a military guy I get reroutes.

The reason I do not get rerouted when I am on an airline trip is because they do the same flight from the same airport multiple times each way. They have worked out preffered routing. BUT we still get reroutes its a fact of life in the NE.

I don't hear them giving the quiche eating airline guys new clnc.

I thought Snake explained it to you we do not get quiche anymore. It's a muffin, if we are lucky.

[LJDRVR]

Originally posted by Caddis:

...we do not get quiche anymore. It's a muffin, if we are lucky.

HAHAHA You get Muffins? You lucky dog! They've recently changed out our name brand candy bars in favor of Tom's "Salty Nut Log." I kid you not. As in:

"Dude, do you want my salty nut log?" Says the FO, holding up his candy bar.

"Uhh, no."

All joking aside, we get muffins too, The FA's hand them out with a tong, the feeling being that fancy presentation will make up for the fact that they SUCK.

For the guy who hates re-routes, one trick that works nicely is to ask for an initial heading to the new fix. Most controllers assume we're all RNAV capable without even looking at the equipment suffix. Even for those of us who are RNAV, the initial heading request puts the responsibility for NAV temporarily on ATC while you sort out the new route/fixes/charts and program the box.

Here's a controller pet peeve:

"We've got him on TCAS."

That helps bigtime. The only acceptable responses on the civilian ATC side of the house is "Traffic in sight" or Negative contact".

[Flare]

This is a great thread!

Originally posted by FlyingAgain:

..stop saying 'good morning, houston center, bla, bla, bla...' there are other people out there trying to use the radios when you're dumbing it up like some 55yr old 747 captain.

So you're saying that an extra 2 words are congesting the radios? It doesn't take me, or most pilots, very long to say "good morning" "afternoon" "evening"...etc. I disagree with you there. Being a little friendly can help for a few minutes later when you ask for direct or an altitude change.

Originally posted by Rainman A-10:

I'm not going to call for clnc, get my clnc, study my route for a while and then crank 'em up. If I'm calling for clnc it means I am ready to taxi...I'll figure out any changes to my flight plan filed clnc on the way to the arming area.

I'm an AETC kid, and don't claim to have been in the "real world" yet, but in T-37s and T-38s, we always call for clearance before engine start. I still don't give a rats a*s if they clear me for engine start, and I'm not going to study my route either, but I don't have the gas to wait around if my flight plan isn't in the system.

[Gravedigger]

I'm pretty sure FATHER TIME flies out of my airport as well. It all goes back to Rainman's "push to think" comment. One day FATHER TIME was shooting an approach into an uncontrolled field, as was I, and honestly took about 40 seconds to make a procedure turn inbound call. After this dude gave us every detail about his plane, plan, and speed, my instructor remarked "so...tell us about your freaking grandkids." Slow people suck.

[ 23. May 2005, 22:07: Message edited by: c17wannabe ]

[GBock]

One day flying from Vance to Amarillo in the mighty tweet with a satanic old SAC B-52 guy...

Me: "Center, RATTR69 with you FL220"

The IP: "If you say 'with you' one more time, I'm going to hit you with the canopy breaker tool."

Me: Uncontrollable laughter

Next handoff (5 minutes later)...

Me: "Amarillo Approach, RATTR69 with you FL200 descending 17 thousand."

CLICK... BAM!

I still have the chip in my helmet to prove it, too! Needless to say, I don't do that anymore.

[HercDude]

"With you" is indeed pretty

FLASH and GLIDE people - PLEASE stop doing this.

Getting stepped on by Syrian and Jordanian civil carriers with callsigns that take 30 seconds to transmit is pretty frustrating to.

[KickChick21]

Pilots:

Has a trainee controller ever just absolutely scared the crap out of you? I've always wondered about this...the guys here seem pretty chill when a tower trainee is jacking up the pattern.

Something else I've always wondered about as well: How familiar is everyone with comm-out procedures (light gun signals, visual signals, etc.)? Is it something you have memorized and train on, or is there a checklist in the a/c? What type of procedures do you have?

[Beaver]

Chick: Both. Everyone should have the comm out procedures memorized, but usually the procedures are also contained in our pilot aid/in flight guide.

[Scooter14]

Originally posted by KickChick21:

Pilots:

Has a trainee controller ever just absolutely scared the crap out of you? I've always wondered about this...the guys here seem pretty chill when a tower trainee is jacking up the pattern.

I know personally, I won't get annoyed over the radios unless it's really bad and we need to complete a checkride or something, but we will talk bad about him or her cross-cockpit.

"Tanker 24, extend downwind for inbound traffic, we'll call your base"

click "Tanker 24" click

DAMMIT! WTF, that dude is like 12 miles away, we can totally beat him. Holy **** it's a Coast Guard H-60! We're gonna be halfway to Cape Cod by the time this guy gets here.

I will also start using aaaaaaaaand a lot more often, just because everything is so jacked up anyway.