USAF Gulfstream V info

[Guest hockeymv]

Saw a Gulfstream V today on the ramp at CWF on my student solo from Corpus. Wow! What a plane. Meticulously (go ahead spell check Nazi's!) maintained, plush interior and avionics like I've only seen in movies (I thought Tweets to C-12 was a big jump!). One of the pilots was nice enough to give us a tour and a brief rundown on the capabilities (Ceiling FL 510, etc..) Amazing.

Just wondering if any of the active flyers have gotten the DV airlift assignment and what they thought of it? Seems like working with 4 stars could have some great perks and some pretty big drawbacks too.

[Gravedigger]

I'm hoping for the C-37A (G-V) myself, after C-17s of course. I work for a company that leases 3 Gulfstreams. They are awesome planes to fly and ride. The other night in a G-2, we took off and were level at 7,000ft in less than a minute. Pretty SH, IMHO. The only problem with the 3's-5's is that they tend to wnader a bit. You'll be cruising at FL470, and the damn thing will just start turning for no reason. I'm sure the military versions are very well maintained though. But I digress, Well I have heard that the DV assignment is pretty sweet, a lot of times the pilots wear suits instead of bags. It's more of the civilian corporate gig, than a military assignment. You're right though, those planes are imaculate.

[ 16. February 2005, 06:59: Message edited by: c17wannabe ]

[ClearedHot]

Originally posted by hockeymv:

Just wondering if any of the active flyers have gotten the DV airlift assignment and what they thought of it? Seems like working with 4 stars could have some great perks and some pretty big drawbacks too.

Yeah it must be fun to carry their bags and sit around waiting for them to get back to the jet, while you sit there in your blues. Then they try to kill you by taking a turn in the seat for an approach.

I have a few friends who have flown in the 89th and for the most part they enjoy it. The part they don't enjoy is flying the political appointee punks who graduated from an Ivy League school, treat the military like crap, and think they know how to fix every problem in the world.

[C17Driver]

And it's not the General that gives you the problems in my most cases, it's the aide that thinks he wears the General's rank and therefore can do what he wants.

[Guest C-21 Pilot]

Here's the deal w/ DV Airlift, and this has just changed as of the new AFI 11-401.

Generals are now only allowed to be qualified (i.e. maintain currency) in one airframe. The waiver authority is Jumper. Most of the guys maintain their currency in a fighter aircraft (ol' 777), or at the very least, a C-21.

As far as a flying general, I actually enjoy flying with them. Get a whole new perspective, get to b1tch about Mingo w/ a listening ear. Some are quite good. I've had to tell a few 2 stars to "shut up and color" cause the field weather was at min's, or the dude completely sucked hand flying. They complain, but they understand that their lack of currency is made up for with a strong Instructor on board...or at least we try to perceive it that way. If the dude is a current and qualified pilot, I have no quarks with the guy making the T/O and landing...we're on autopilot 80% of the time.

As far as carrying bags and wearing blues, only the 89th wear blues, and the enlisted folks carry the bags.

The drawbacks usually come from all of the protocol goons who think that the world runs around the 4-star. I think if you have a strong enough Aircraft Commander, though, the problem is handled at the lowest level.

As far as a bickering aid, my standard brief summarized is this: "Don't bother me unless you're too hot, too cold, too sick, too scared, or you smell fire."

[ 16. February 2005, 11:31: Message edited by: C-21 Pilot ]

[Guest CAVOK]

I am not with the 89th, but here is my limited insight on DV airlift.

DV airlift is a whole different side of flying:

1. If you fly for the 89th, you have to be a DV Code 2 or higher to rank getting the plane...check AP & you'll see very few generals qualify.

2. The only people on the crew who have contact with the "party" are the flight attendants. ("Party" typically refers to Congressman or Senator, but can be the VP, Rumsfeld, 1st Lady, etc.). Every once in a while, the CSO (comm guy), or aircraft commander, but not that often.

Before anyone rips on the flight attendants, we are not talking about the ones on USAir, they all have TS clearance or higher & are culinary trained, etc.

3. The drawback to the G5 is that you can go from Andrews to Jordan--non-stop, and will. Not much room to stretch. On the plus side, they are completely decked out, nose to tail.

4. The waiting around for them is pretty much crap...the party is typically on a very tight schedule. You get all your services the moment you ask for them. I would venture to guess that you would be more likely to be delayed (as a normal airlifter) waiting for a fuel truck at McGuire then a DV aircraft would be waiting for the party.

5. The "Sam" or "Boxer" callsign parts the seas worldwide. Almost as good as using the "Priority AirEvac" (but not near as good as "Emergency") callsigns. You are not restrained by things like flow control in Europe.

6. The party rarely stays anywhere that you don't want to stay (meaning country). There are exceptions, like the C-40 going to the desert a lot lately, but that is not typical DV lift.

--2 missions ago I stayed in Rome, Crete, & Ireland--

7. Political appointees, for the most part are not that bad. They do carry the weight of the person they work for, like it or not, but they also make sure they watch their own step--in general. If the party member thinks they are abusing the position, they are gone. It reflects on the person they work for. The staffers have DV equivalents of 1-2 star gens.

For a "staffer" to get on a DV aircraft, the party member had to do some justification, and it is not automatic. So often they are thrilled

8. The pentagon has military members who travel with the party and take care of all the "minor" stuff, like making sure that the bags are at the aircraft on time & relaying any special requests from the party. That person is the screen between the party & the crew, as well as the tour guide, etc. (I have friends doing that job, & I do not recommend it).

9. The biggest drawback: If you, as a crew, screw something up, the first call may be to some guy named Rumsfeld. So when it starts rolling down hill, it comes fast!

10. Uniform for 89th is Blues stateside, suit abroad. 201st (MD Guard flying C-40s) does wear flight suits stateside.

11. There are no "flying gens" that I know of on 89th aircraft.

12. "Other" DV airlift. Like what you would do on a C-17. That is when you are more likely to have just staffers or generals. When you are doing those, yes, you can sometimes have a needy bunch in the back. But often they are just glad they aren't flying commercial. About the worst you will get is a 1-star pilot/nav who is trying to get into your end of the business.

--Last mission I had included 37 1-stars or higher (out of 40 pax); 13 were 3-star or higher...no pressure!--

Lengthy response, but it's a slow day in the office!

CAVOK

[ 16. February 2005, 16:31: Message edited by: CAVOK ]

[scoobs]

I talked to an 89th guy and he said that he didn't have to wear blues.Also they have those aircraft besides DC.

[Guest goirishgo]

Hey good insight, C-21 and CAVOK. Thanks for sharing. Definitely gives me an inside perspective on DV airlift that I wouldn't have had until now.

[Guest CAVOK]

scoobs,

If he is actual 89th, then he is wearing blues & not a bag. If he is flying C-21s, that is not the 89th, and yes, he is flying in a bag & with regular generals, etc.

And yes, SAM DV airlift is also done out of places like McDill & Hawaii & a couple others.

The OG/CC determines the uniform requirements, and it could be different at places like Hawaii.

CAVOK

[ 16. February 2005, 15:40: Message edited by: CAVOK ]

[Guest C-21 Pilot]

A DV-2, for those not in the know, is a Senator, Congressman, equiv.

The only 4 star generals who carry this rank do so because they are a Combined Component Commander...or one of Multi-service realm (per AP2).

Example...

Gen Handy, AMC CC and USTRANSCOM CC....DV-2

Gen Folgesong, USAFE CC and Air North CC...DV-2 (and knows it!)

Adm Ellis (just retired), but was the US STRATCOM CC @ Offutt...big wig, and yes, DV-2. There are only a handful (CENTCOM/CC, etc) who fall into this high priority position, who can pull the likes of the 89th.

Elite group of pilots...

[Guest HueyPilot]

The Gulfstream V is a pretty capable aircraft, and yes they are well maintained given their mission. I actually got to sit in the seat of a C-20G (Navy G-IV) while flying over the Med...I asked the AC if it was ok...he said "probably not, but I'm tired and going to take a nap in the back". So the CP and I sat up there answering radio calls...the plane just about flies itself. Set an altitude, set an airspeed, and set a rate of climb and the autopilot and autothrottles does the rest.

About DV airlift...you get to fly to a very diverse number of destinations that most other mil pilots would never get to go to. And in general, the aides are usually the worst of the bunch...I rarely had any problems from the generals themselves.

While at LSV (Las Vegas) I had an aide complain that he wanted to get his general airborne NOW. Well, too bad I explained since we're sitting in line waiting for gas at a civilian FBO, with several Gulfstreams ahead of us. He said "go tell them the general needs to get airborne"...sure, so I took him to the desk and said "hey, is there anyway you can speed up the refueling for Gen. so-n-so?". The reply was a nice, dry and evenly monotone "no, you'll have to wait". Thank you. Now go shut up and color.

Anyways, many of the generals I flew were very personable...and you might be suprised but Army and Navy brass were typically better people to fly around than the AF types. Marines are...well...Marines, so I'll just stop there. As for the civilian elite...some were extremely grateful and were very interested in what we did...you could tell they were the types who didn't fly DV airlift much. Then I flew some who didn't even say two words to you...not even a "hello" or a "nice flight Lieutenant". They just gathered up their expensive suits and walked off. Most of them, I hate to say, were undersecretary of something within the Dept. of the AF.

It's funny how the AF brass were the ones who most often ignored or took for granted the talents of some very young pilots (some who were ACs with less than 800 hours total time).

In any case, I generally enjoyed the DV airlift mission...no, you weren't doing anything of great importance. And no, you really weren't out there fighting the "War on Terror" like your buddies in MWS aircraft were. But we had a good job, flew pretty good airplanes (the C-21s were the rag dolls of the DV airlift fleet and were still in great shape) and got to seem some interesting places.

If you get the chance, I say go for it. I'd rather fly C-21s though instead of the 89th stuff...yes, the 89th guys fly in blues stateside. We never wore blues. And the airplane was so small that no one faulted you for not getting out of the seat to fix the general a cup of coffee. I NEVER fixed anyone coffee. Loading and unloading bags was another story, however...never an easy job in a small airplane with pax who think they are riding on AF One (and bringing 747-sized bags).

[scoobs]

I talked to a BBJ pilot out of Hickam and they get to wear bags,is this still true.

[Guest comanche]

How do you get selected for these types of planes, and missions? I'm sure it isn't easy.

Thanks,

Comanche

[Gravedigger]

Originally posted by CAVOK:

[QB]3. The drawback to the G5 is that you can go from Andrews to Jordan--non-stop, and will. Not much room to stretch. On the plus side, they are completely decked out, nose to tail.

/QB]

Man this is true. My boss used to file New York as his alternate for a trip from New York-London. He said more than once they crossed the Atlantic, couldn't get into Gatwick and came right back. He also circumnavigated the globe in two trips. :eek:

[Guest CAVOK]

Comanche,

Here is what it takes (as published by the 89th):

89th AIRLIFT WING APPLICATION PROCESS

1. APPLICANT REQUIREMENTS

1a. Minimum requirements are as follows:

-- Airlift, Tanker, or C2ISR (E-3, E-4, E-8, KC-135) Major Weapon System (MWS) Aircraft Commander.

-- No fighter or bomber.

-- 2000 total hours.

-- 3 years Time on Station (TOS or DEROS) by Oct 05 (NO EXCEPTIONS).

-- Professional Military Education (PME) completed (any method), appropriate for rank and time in grade

-- MWS/OSA Instructor/Evaluator experience

1b. 89th Airlift Wing highly desires in addition to above requirements:

-- 2500 total hours.

-- 250 MWS/OSA Instructor Pilot hours.

-- MWS/OSA Evaluator Pilot experience.

-- Recent worldwide flight experience.

-- Minimal number of qualification level 3 (or equivalent) flight evaluations.

CAVOK

[scoobs]

How hard is it to get selected for the aircraft not at Andrews?And I heard that the 89th was top heavy,lots of majors and LtC.

[ 04. March 2005, 13:23: Message edited by: scoobs ]

[Guest Safe&Clear]

How hard is it to get selected for the aircraft not at Andrews?And I heard that the 89th was top heavy,lots of majors and LtC.

[ 04. March 2005, 13:23: Message edited by: scoobs ]

Looking for an answer to this question myself. Any 89th experts on this forum? Are the McDill birds part of the 89th or some other Group? If one is selected for the 89th, might they be sent to MacDill instead of DC?

[Techsan]

Looking for an answer to this question myself. Any 89th experts on this forum? Are the McDill birds part of the 89th or some other Group? If one is selected for the 89th, might they be sent to MacDill instead of DC?

Not an 89th expert, however I do know that C37's @ MacDill are part of the 310th AS (6th AMW). I was also talking to a Maj type who flys C37s out of MacDill and he told me that in the near future they will be looking to take more and more senior Captains. I think they want to fill the squadron with a few hard charging CGOs...some young blood.

[Bluto]

CAVOK - Does the AFPC website now say no bombers? I just viewed it recently and it said no fighters but nothing about bombers.

[flyinap]

I'am a C-17 guy here at Hickam and I gave a ride to some DV pilots out here a couple of months back and they do wear bags, however, they are blue.

[Guest terp737]

I'm in the 89th. What do you want to know? Like any AF job, it has good things and bad things about it. I will say that it has been my best assignment and will allow me to have a lot of stories for the grandkids.

[ClearedHot]

And it's not the General that gives you the problems in my most cases, it's the aide that thinks he wears the General's rank and therefore can do what he wants.

I resembled that remark...NOT, I only asked the crew if we were on time and if they had called command post.

[Tex]

Just curious, why the stipulation excluding fighter guys from the 89th?

[Guest terp737]

Just curious, why the stipulation excluding fighter guys from the 89th?

Why are airlift/tanker guys excluded from fighter weapons school?

[FourFans]

Why are airlift/tanker guys excluded from fighter weapons school?

...wait...you mean it's more than flying from point A to point B?!

Terp is right. Two different skill sets.

Tex: Believe it or not, if you can fly a fighter well, that don't mean you can fly a heavy well. Honestly though, the flying skills aspect pales in comparison to the mission planning aspect. Flying a big plane into multiple countries and all the coordination involved is a little more difficult than keeping the one TACAN tuned and tanker in sight. Throw the DV mish into the mix, and it gets more complex.