Seymour-Johnson and F-15E (Strike Eagle) info

[Guest cadbury]

Do strike eagle crews generally fly together or do different pilots fly with different WSOs all the time? How does CRM work in the jet? Is it always the pilot "just" flying and the WSO running the radar? Just trying to get an idea of how most sorties go.

[Toro]

You'll fly with a different pilot/WSO every day. The only time I've ever been 'hard crewed' with a WSO was during a Flag-type exercise, and even then it wasn't completely necessary.

There is a lot more to CRM than just who runs what sensors, and there are a lot more sensors than just the radar. It also depends on what you are doing: if you're doing 2v2/4v4 ACT type stuff, the pilot will usually run the radar while the WSO monitors the SIT and targeting pod. If you're low altitude, the pilot primarily just maintains formation while the WSO runs most of the sensors. In BFM/ACM, the pilot fights and the WSO looks for the second guy who's trying to roll in and kill you.

In general, there are 'standard' roles for us (similar to stuff listed above) which are actually written out in our regs and wing/squadron standards which lay out what each guy should do in case you want to have a crew brief of 'standard.'

[Hacker]

My sqaudron was hard crewed during the first 2 weeks of OIF.

[Guest norge44]

Watched the "Eagle Rage" video. During a close up of the take-off it looked as though the left intake was pivoting about an axis. Does this really happen or was it a shadow?

[ClearedHot]

It was real, the intakes move in relation to angle of attack in order to regulate and maintain smooth airflow to the engine by preventing boundary layer air from entering the intake. Additionally, they provide a secondary maneuver control function that gives additional control authority equal to 1/3 the horizontal stabilizer. They are moved automatically by the air data computer.

[flynhigh]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that also help control the shock wave system entering the intake during supersonic flight? I know the F-14 has a hydraulic ramp system inside the intake to accomplish this.

[Hacker]

Originally posted by Clearedhot:

Additionally, they provide a secondary maneuver control function that gives additional control authority equal to 1/3 the horizontal stabilizer.

That's a new one on me. While I don't doubt that the large under-side surface area of the ramps provide some kind of newtonian lift via ram-air, I have never heard that they had any relation to the flight control system.

Do you have a reference for that? My -1 doesn't mention anything about it.

[ClearedHot]

Hacker,

Got it from my old man and I’ve seen it in print, I think and old weapons school paper on high AOA maneuvering, but I am not sure. Pops was initial cadre on the F-15 and when I read the article he confirmed the paper and told me a few other stories about flying the A model. Give him a little bourbon and he will open up about three F-4 tours in Vietnam and the first days in the Eagle.

I just did a quick search and came up with this…not a factual source but same thing I heard before.

F-15A Info

[Toro]

Originally posted by flynhigh:

doesn't that also help control the shock wave system entering the intake during supersonic flight?

Sort of. As described, the intakes vary to optimize the airflow. As the aircraft approaches Mach, there is a diffuser ramp inside the intakes that programs down to prevent a shock wave from forming in the intake.

[Hacker]

I definitely see that the downswept top surface of the ramps would provide some aerodynamic forces that the flight control computer would have to deal with.

Based on my purely non-scientific experience looking out the window at the ramps while actuating the stick in flight, I don't see that there's any relation to the commands generated by the flight control computer and the commands generated by the air inlet controller.

Interesting information, though. Perhaps even true!

[flynhigh]

Originally posted by Toro:

Sort of. As described, the intakes vary to optimize the airflow. As the aircraft approaches Mach, there is a diffuser ramp inside the intakes that programs down to prevent a shock wave from forming in the intake.

Actually, shocks inside the intake is SOMETIMES desirable. In MOST cases, like you said, the shock is outside of the intake. A shock is purposely introduced at the intake during supersonic flight to slow the airflow going into the intake to subsonic speeds. When supersonic flow enters a nozzle (i.e. intake) it becomes choked, or the air flow is unable to accelerate past Mach 1. The SR-71 intake cones were designed for just this. The pilot even had to adjust the position of the "spikes" while the airspeed changed to maintain the proper shock system, if he didn't the engine could unstart (where shocks inside the inlet cause a loss of airflow).

Check this site out, Supersonic Engine Inlets, I know its not a well known source... but from what I know it seems to be accurate.

And I thought all that stuff I learned in my propulsion class would be useless. I guess I was wrong?!

[Guest kmoore00]

I am headed to Seymour-Johnson for IFT/casual status in the middle of February. I am assigned to the 4th OSS. It is my understanding that I may get moved from the 4th to another squadron when I get there, can anyone back that up? Also, where are the best places to live? Thanks in advance for all the help.

[Toro]

PM me, I'm an FTU instructor there and can help you with any information you need. To answer your questions -

- All the Ops-types who will eventually be assigned to one of the fighter squadrons are initially assigned to the 4th Training Squadron on their orders, then transferred (PCAd) over to their respective squadron. This sounds similar to what they'll do to you.

- There's plenty of places to live, depending on whether you're married or single, how far you want to commute, and whether you want to rent or buy. Anywhere from on base to Clayton (about 45 minutes north, a little over half way to Raleigh).

We have two casual Lts who work in our squadron - one works in the scheduling shop and the other is sort of a gopher lieutenant. It's a great opportunity for a couple reasons; you learn a lot about a fighter squadron (especially as a scheduler), you get included in all our events (they even got named at the last naming ceremony), and you may get to fly. On the rare occasions when we are short of WSOs, these guys get thrown in to fly. I've been here since August and have seen them both fly at least twice.

You should get a sponsor who will answer all your questions and help you with your transition, but if you don't have one already, I'd be glad to pick up that responsibility for you.

[Mambo]

Once again, this is why Toro is THE MAN...takes on the responsibilies and steps up to the plate when needed...

[backseatdriver]

C-21,

It's no different than getting an incentive ride in the backseat of any other fighter. They're not actually doing WSO stuff. Plus, since the WSO isn't a co-pilot, your heavy example doesn't really work.

[ 18. January 2005, 13:13: Message edited by: backseatdriver ]

[Toro]

Originally posted by C-21 Pilot:

They actually let no-experience-butter bars do this? I'm simply amazed due to the complexity of the jet, and safety concerns.

They don't throw these guys into overly complex missions - nothing where weapons deliveries (real or simulated) would depend on them designating/lasing weapons. Primarily they go into BFM/ACM/ACT sorties where the pilot can run all the sensors with no detriment to the mission. They've got a couple advantages over the average incentive flight guy - basically we can do a little more with them, and because they will be flying more than a few rides, we try to teach them how to run some of the easier systems and do simple things like change radios, set up navaids, etc.

[FlyAF]

I noticed the two "tanks" towards the rear of the jet. I've never seen those before, but I'm guessing that they're baggage pods? I didn't know that the E model could carry stores back there. Does the C model have the same setup?

[Guest Hoser]

Originally posted by FlyAF:

I noticed the two "tanks" towards the rear of the jet. I've never seen those before, but I'm guessing that they're baggage pods? I didn't know that the E model could carry stores back there. Does the C model have the same setup?

Those are travel pods.

The E model has 6 BRU's on each CFT. Those travel pods are located on LC-1 and RC-1.

The C model does not have CFT's. They normally throw their bags in the avionics compartment behind their seat.

Cap-10

[Guest corra0c8]

Is the F-15E dual controls and if so does the WSO get to fly much or not really ?

Do WSOs go through UNT as opposed to UPT?

Any other info on the subject would be appreciated.

[Guest Navtastic]

WSO dudes train at Pensacola. Navs train at Randolph. Different programs, same wings.

[Guest Hoser]

Originally posted by corra0c8:

Is it dual controls and if so does the nav get to fly much or not really ?

Any other info on the subject would be appreciated.

Yes it's dual controls. As an IP I fly in the back seat when we are teaching new nose gunners how to land.

When the WSO's are back there, they fly as little or as much as the pilot allows them to, assuming they want to fly in the first place.

Cap-10

[Guest corra0c8]

Thanks hoser and C17. im new to the whole AF thing. im still waiting on my AFOQT scores and my first choice would be pilot but I figured an F-15E backseater would be just as good. I wanted ANG and didnt know that all E models are in AD. I was looking for which bases have E models couldnt find it. Anybody know? Also, what are the demands of the AF..are they in need of WSO's?

[Steve Davies]

CONUS E-models are located at Mountain Home AFB, OH; Seymour Johnson AFB, NC; and Elmendorf AFB, AK. You'll also find two squadrons at RAF Lakenheath, England.

[Scooter14]

Hoser,

A lot of states ae picking up new ANG missions/roles and some are not necessarily flying. ALO jobs, Air Operations Groups looking for CAOC guys in specific specialties, UAV's, etc. A Strike Eagle crewmember would be an excellent addition to anyone planning or executing anything air to mud.

[Guest corra0c8]

Anybody know what the syllabus for strike-fighter WSO training looks like ?