PCola and swimming

[Guest elroy]

Hey everyone,

I just got picked up as a WSO and will be graduating in May.

My question is what type of swim requirements are there down at PCola?

As sad and embarrassing as it is...I cant swim for crap. I can doggy paddle and that is about it...can't tread water...don't know any fancy strokes (STS).

Also, who else graduating in May is heading down there? Thanks

-ElRoy

[ 12. January 2005, 17:50: Message edited by: ElRoy ]

[Herk Mafia]

I cant say for sure, I was a pilot down there and they didnt make us swim, but there is like 2 weeks where they teach you the correct way to swim before taking the final swim test, no one in our class failed it. One guy couldnt pass the initial swim screen, so they gave him remedial instruction and he did fine. Make sure your run time is decent because you will take a PT test right after you inprocess and another one a few weeks later and its on a hilly cross-country track with sand and wood chips, not on a flat track. If you have any other questions, you HAVE to go to airwarriors.com, its a great navy site and they will be able to answer ANY question you have.

[Guest SPIDER]

ElRoy,

You will get a swim test, DONCKER, for your final you'll have to swim a mile in your flight suit. It's doable. I suggest you get some swim classes before showing to P'cola. Those Navy Swim Instructors are really "sticklers". If your toes are not facing inboard while performing the breast stroke you will fail (This happened to a Stud during the swim test. Just my .02. Good luck.

Spider.

[Guest pinko]

All of our classmates passed... a marine made it in around 40 minutes for the mile swim, and the AF nav in our class made it at 79:45... (the limit is 80:00).

AF NAVS ARENT REQUIRED TO PASS IT... ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS ATTEMPT IT! This can mean (A) getting in the pool, taking one stroke and getting out or (B) trying to finish and earning a LOT more respect out of your classmates for finishing something you didnt have to do.

If you do plan on doing the whole swim (which i highly recommend, even though as a stud pilot i didnt have to do it), lube up with vasaline all over. Seriously. Nobody in our class admitted to any chafing or nipples bleeding (always a good thing).

Pilots dont do anything related to water when at pensacola for API- and it sounds like a good deal at first, but sucks in the end. Sure, you get to sleep in a few mornings since youre not swimming laps, but at the end of API when your buddies tell you how cool the helo hoist out of the bay was, or the dunker for that matter, i would have traded a few extra hours of sleep for a hoist or dunk any day.

[Herk Mafia]

I wanted to do the swim stuff specifically to do the helo hoist but the swim guys at the pool wouldnt let me. They said it was some rule the AF had. Its cool though because we get to do it at water survival after UPT.

[backseatdriver]

Don't worry, you'll get the helo hoist at water survival (if you go to an aircraft with parachutes).

[magnetfreezer]

Swimming update:

According to the water survival department head and instructors, all AF personnel (both WSOs and pilots) going through API will now be required to pass all water related events including the mile swim, etc. For those reporting here it would be good to get some swim practice in before coming down, especially for the pilots on casual at Whiting since their base pool is closed during the winter months.

The events are:

WS-1/1A: Swim a couple laps of each stroke to measure comfort in the water

WS-2*: 100 yard continuous swim test 1 length each breaststroke, sidestroke, backstroke, crawl, 5 minute prone float, step off 12 foot tower into pool

WS-3: Tread water 2 minutes/prone float 3 minutes in bathing suit

WS-4: WS-3 with flight suit and boots

WS-5: WS-4 plus survival vest and gloves

WS-6: WS-5 plus flight helmet

WS-7: Step off 12 foot tower and swim 15 yards underwater (abandon ship drill)

WS-8*: 200 yard continuous swim in bathing suit 2 lengths each breaststroke, sidestroke, backstroke, crawl, 75 yard swim in full flight gear from WS-6 1 length each breaststroke, sidestroke, backstroke

WS-9*: 1 mile (36 laps) in flight suits <80:00 without backstroke or floating on your back

The starred events are the ones you can get a pink sheet for failing, the other ones they will generally remediate you during extra instruction after academics.

[Guest ElRoy]

Funny seeing a post I put up here almost 3 years ago. Instead of PCola I ended up going through Randolph. No swimming for this guy.

Worse part is that I am still not done training.

[pawnman]

Just to add for other PCola hopefuls...

Don't sweat the swimming. The instructors are awesome, and they'll get you through it. I don't know that anyone has EVER washed out of API for not being able to swim. I failed my swim screen, so I got to go to the pool twice a day for a week and learn how to swim "the Navy way". I also got to repeat a few events (the full-gear tread and float, the tower dive/underwater swim), but I got through it. The instructors work with you, and as long as you're putting in effort, you won't ever get in trouble for failing a swim event. You'll just be "remediated".

[Coasta]

Wow! It sounds like a lot of things had changed for the WS portion at P-Cola's API since I went through. That was absolutely brutal for me in 98. I was a terrible swimmer and had low body fat (at the time) so basically I sunk like a stone. I can't believe that they were letting the AF dudes opt out of the training for that long. It was very good training and I'm glad to see that they're making it a requirement again.

Coasta

[PirateAF]

Not to sound ignorant but what is API?

Is this the T-34/T-6 training that is joint navy/air force at Pcola?

Appreciate any info.

[magnetfreezer]

Not to sound ignorant but what is API?

Is this the T-34/T-6 training that is joint navy/air force at Pcola?

Appreciate any info.

The Navy, Marines, and Coast Guard require all students to complete Aviation Preflight Indoctrination before training with one of their flying units. It is 4 weeks of academics on aerodynamics, weather, non-aircraft specific systems, navigation and flight rules/regs along with PT and all swimming events. The last 2 weeks are aerospace physiology and survival training (helo dunker, getting dropped in the bay, redneck parasailing, etc). In addition, it seems to be a tool for the Navy to weed out/control the pipeline through attrition and indoctrinate the flight school mindset since flight specific info like T-6 systems, EPs, local procedures, weather, etc. is taught again during academics at the start of primary.

After graduation Air Force pilots move to VT-3 at Whiting to go through primary (Phase II) in the -34s and follow on to T-1/T-38/T-44/UH-1. Strike Nav selects stay at Pensacola and check into TW-6 to train in the T-6 and T-1 in VT-4 or VT-10 for primary/intermediate and move into advanced in the T-39 (rumored to be the T-45 soon) and are winged at the end of the syllabus in VT-86. Big Blue is supposed to move all CSO/WSO/nav/etc training here over the next few years, haven't heard anything on whether it will still be under the current joint system or if they will set up separate AF squadrons.

There is a lot more info on API, etc over on www.airwarriors.com with the larger Navy population there.

[pawnman]

The Navy, Marines, and Coast Guard require all students to complete Aviation Preflight Indoctrination before training with one of their flying units. It is 4 weeks of academics on aerodynamics, weather, non-aircraft specific systems, navigation and flight rules/regs along with PT and all swimming events. The last 2 weeks are aerospace physiology and survival training (helo dunker, getting dropped in the bay, redneck parasailing, etc). In addition, it seems to be a tool for the Navy to weed out/control the pipeline through attrition and indoctrinate the flight school mindset since flight specific info like T-6 systems, EPs, local procedures, weather, etc. is taught again during academics at the start of primary.

After graduation Air Force pilots move to VT-3 at Whiting to go through primary (Phase II) in the -34s and follow on to T-1/T-38/T-44/UH-1. Strike Nav selects stay at Pensacola and check into TW-6 to train in the T-6 and T-1 in VT-4 or VT-10 for primary/intermediate and move into advanced in the T-39 (rumored to be the T-45 soon) and are winged at the end of the syllabus in VT-86. Big Blue is supposed to move all CSO/WSO/nav/etc training here over the next few years, haven't heard anything on whether it will still be under the current joint system or if they will set up separate AF squadrons.

There is a lot more info on API, etc over on www.airwarriors.com with the larger Navy population there.

The instructors at Randolph while I was doing EWO school claim that it will be co-located but separate training. The AF will use the T-6 and the T-1, the Navy will use the T-6 and the T-45. The rumor is also that they will put in a "simulated" radar on the T-1. From what I understand, it's basically a bunch of stored radar imagery linked to the GPS.

[HerkDerka]

The Navy, Marines, and Coast Guard require all students to complete Aviation Preflight Indoctrination before training with one of their flying units. It is 4 weeks of academics on aerodynamics, weather, non-aircraft specific systems, navigation and flight rules/regs along with PT and all swimming events. The last 2 weeks are aerospace physiology and survival training (helo dunker, getting dropped in the bay, redneck parasailing, etc). In addition, it seems to be a tool for the Navy to weed out/control the pipeline through attrition and indoctrinate the flight school mindset since flight specific info like T-6 systems, EPs, local procedures, weather, etc. is taught again during academics at the start of primary.

After graduation Air Force pilots move to VT-3 at Whiting to go through primary (Phase II) in the -34s and follow on to T-1/T-38/T-44/UH-1. Strike Nav selects stay at Pensacola and check into TW-6 to train in the T-6 and T-1 in VT-4 or VT-10 for primary/intermediate and move into advanced in the T-39 (rumored to be the T-45 soon) and are winged at the end of the syllabus in VT-86. Big Blue is supposed to move all CSO/WSO/nav/etc training here over the next few years, haven't heard anything on whether it will still be under the current joint system or if they will set up separate AF squadrons.

There is a lot more info on API, etc over on www.airwarriors.com with the larger Navy population there.

Wow, that's a lot of words for "Navy ground school".

HD

[Whitman]

Swimming update:

According to the water survival department head and instructors, all AF personnel (both WSOs and pilots) going through API will now be required to pass all water related events including the mile swim, etc.

Yet another reason NOT to train with the Navy for phase I and II.

[pawnman]

Yet another reason NOT to train with the Navy for phase I and II.

What do you mean? The water was the best part of Pensacola.

[Herk Driver]

The instructors at Randolph while I was doing EWO school claim that it will be co-located but separate training. The AF will use the T-6 and the T-1, the Navy will use the T-6 and the T-45. The rumor is also that they will put in a "simulated" radar on the T-1. From what I understand, it's basically a bunch of stored radar imagery linked to the GPS.

They've done this once before. Let's see how it works out this time. Although this time it was directed in the BRAC.

Yet another reason NOT to train with the Navy for phase I and II.

Only if you're skeered of the water.

[ellsworb]

Yet another reason NOT to train with the Navy for phase I and II.

Spoken out of the pure IGNORANCE that is normally associated with fellas talkin about the Navy program. 99% have no clue what they're talkin about.

[PirateAF]

Magnetfreezer,

Thanks for the info!!

And don't mind the catcalls from the peanut gallery.

[magnetfreezer]

And don't mind the catcalls from the peanut gallery.

No worries, couldn't hear them since I was usually out back studying with a after getting out of class at 1130

[spectre56]

The events are:

WS-1/1A: Swim a couple laps of each stroke to measure comfort in the water

WS-2*: 100 yard continuous swim test 1 length each breaststroke, sidestroke, backstroke, crawl, 5 minute prone float, step off 12 foot tower into pool

WS-3: Tread water 2 minutes/prone float 3 minutes in bathing suit

WS-4: WS-3 with flight suit and boots

WS-5: WS-4 plus survival vest and gloves

WS-6: WS-5 plus flight helmet

WS-7: Step off 12 foot tower and swim 15 yards underwater (abandon ship drill)

WS-8*: 200 yard continuous swim in bathing suit 2 lengths each breaststroke, sidestroke, backstroke, crawl, 75 yard swim in full flight gear from WS-6 1 length each breaststroke, sidestroke, backstroke

WS-9*: 1 mile (36 laps) in flight suits <80:00 without backstroke or floating on your back

The starred events are the ones you can get a pink sheet for failing, the other ones they will generally remediate you during extra instruction after academics.

I did all this stuff when going through enlisted aircrew school down there (right after USMC boot camp), and, while not extremely difficult for the most part, if you're not a strong swimmer...start practicing. I had trouble with WS-6...I don't know if they do it differently for officers, but we were in the pool all day doing this stuff, and if you couldn't do it after a certain amount of remediation, you got rolled to the next class.

Most of it is pretty easy, but don't take it for granted. And the mile swim is just boring.