Hey guys,

I was thinking about taking some aerobatic training just to help build my situational awareness while upside down and in rolls and loops etc. I was wondering if that is at all beneficial to UPT aerobatic training, or if you guys would recommend spending the money on some other type of training?

Thanks

IMHO, don't waste your money. You'll learn all that stuff at UPT. I wouldn't want to have to break any old habits. Also, the aerobatics in UPT are not all that complicated and as long as you study the parameters, you'll do fine.

PD

maybe you could take a lesson or two just to see how you handle high Gs

I attended an emergency maneuver course (more than aerobatics, but still some unusual attitudes, to say the least), taught by former viper pilots (www.fcitraining.com) and found it INVALUABLE.

Personally, I don't care if this does anything for/against me as a prospective AF pilot. My passenger's lives take priority at this point.

J.

Go up for one or two aerobatics flights - it can only help. I did that before UPT and it gave me a slight edge on aero at UPT because I had already spun several times as well as done aileron rolls, loops, cuban eight's and cloverleafs. Sure it is totally different than doing acro in a tweet, but the basic concepts of acro manueuvers are the same. I totally disagree with people who say "they will teach you that at UPT" or "you will have plenty of time to do acro at UPT." In my opinion I had an advantage by having seen and thought about acro before my classmates did. I don't know if I would spend all of the money to get fully aerobatic qualified (I think the guy I flew with said you need 5 flights to get qualified - each flight was around $200). Good luck.

I'd say go for it. Any previous experience you can bring will only help.

Also to anyone who cares, the G's in acro aren't that much. The Tweet is G'd out at 6.67. Unless you're trying or F somthing up you'd probably won't see past 5.5. And of course they teach you how to deal with the G's.

Good Luck

I say go for it. I'm doing it right now and it's FUN! If you got the money, or if you don't, just do it...do it. (little starsky and hutch for ya)

I have a question.

I have my PPL, but I haven't flown in awhile. My unit said they're going to try to get me set up for 10 hours of flying prior to UPT.

If that happens, is it possible to use the "money" to do some aerobatic flying? What's the procedure for the program? Do you have to go to a specific flight instructor in a specific airport, or are you pretty much free to go anywhere and fly anything?

I just think it'd be more fun doing some aerobatics rather than a couple of cross countries.

Just another thought. If I go for the aerobatics they have the option of flying the decathalon or a pitts. I know the pitts would be a blast, but its really expensive (more than 2x the cost of flying the decathalon), but is it worth it?

Ok, my experience has only been with a 172 until I got into a Decathlon. The 8KCAB is lighter, about the same power, huge control surfaces and can take +6 -5 G's. All this adds up to FUN!

By the way, the school I'm going to has a Pitts and an Extra300...extremely expensive but they're x100 on the coolness factor.

oo extra 300, something id like to try someday, haha

I got my tailwheel in a Pitts S-2A... It's not so bad... Fun little plane..

I didn't know there were Extras with two seats, thats awesome. I'd like to go some some aerobatics Patty Wagstaff style.

If anyone's in southern Cali, here ya go.

https://www.sunriseaviation.com/home.html

Get your Extra or Pitts time.

you'll learn the basics of aerobatics better in a decathlon. more control input required to do the maneuvers, example: using rudder to keep the nose up in a roll. get a few hours in the decathlon, and then move up to the pitts. I have been flying aerobatics in a Sukhoi ever since I started, and I think it would have been beneficial to get some basics in a super decathlon before jumping into an unlimited aerobatic airplane like a sukhoi. Regardless, aerobatic training will make you a better pilot.

dan

Let me tell you...the EXTRA300 one of the best aerobatic rides i've ever been on in my life. That thing does snap rolls like its nobody's business. If anybody gets a chance...def give it a whirl

Okay, so my Turbomentor doesn't pull a lot of G's. I'm just curious though, how many G's do you 6, 37 and 38 guys pull in loops and immelmans. We do a hole 3.5 on our plane. Yee-haw, great balls of fire! Thanks.

If I remember, I think the T-38 uses 500knots and 5G's for the entry for any over the top maneuver. Over the top , the G's are much less, then back to 5 G's as you complete the pull out (STS).

Hoser

[ 20. February 2006, 19:00: Message edited by: Hoser ]

Varies in the loop. More at the bottom and less at the top. For the 37, it all depended on us how well we were doing on energy management. Too high and you had to pull more to keep from launching out of the top of the MOA. If you were low you could pull a nice easy one and use all 5K you were alloted. I had some instructors tell me that I was too aggressive in the loop and some tell me I didn't have a hair on my ass if I didn't hit at least 5. Just depends. Practice is all I can say. Just remember you have to ease off as your airspeed bleeds off to avoid the oval instead of the loop.

I believe the target in the pull up was 3 G's in the Tweet. The airspeed a little less certain of it, but 220 knots seems familar...

Somebody can correct me, but that's gotta be close.

BENDY

In the T-6 you shoot for 230-250 KIAS and 3-4 G's in the pull-up.

3.5 is about perfect for the Tweet. More than that and you will have almost too much airspeed when you pull through the 2nd half of the loop. Less than that and you won't be able to keep a constant nose track through the 2nd half due to a lack of airspeed.

Jer,

Is it more important for you to see a stud hit his entry parameters or to see a stright loop/"oval?"

My question is basically, is it better to you to hit the entry parameters or "hands" your way (through 2-4 Gs) to a circle?

Or do you require both?

Personally, I found it hard to do both, (After all I only have one Dick!)

BENDY

If I understand the question right, then:

No, you do not need to make a "perfect circle" airshow-type loop (like I did today in my friend's Pitts). Instead, you try to hit 500 KIAS at the bottom, 200 at the top (and still inside the vertical limit of the MOA), and back to 500 at the bottom. And no rolling during the maneuver; just a nice straight pull.

Perhaps a thread deviation, but still germane...

I'm no hootyguru, but it seems to me that both civilian (we've all been there) and military (evidence is before you) teach manuevers strictly by numbers. For you IP types, how important is being smooth?