the g-man Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 Question: A person in that situation, do they have to go through Enlisted Basic Training at Lackland or do they just ship em off to Tech School as an Airman Basic and then their their first base? Not sure about academy, but I know of two contracted ROTC cadets who had to go to basic. Both had already completed ROTC field training. 1
scoobs Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) Academy recoupment is for education costs. The $400K number is a clever pat-on-the-back number for high school students to quote that is pretty much based on the cost to run the USAFA base (including the 10th ABW) divided by the number of cadets. The actual number is closer to $120-140K for education recoupment. Several 2009 USAFA grads ended up self-eliminating in UPT. The "workaround" to make them pay was to force them to separate. They couldn't recoup the UPT training cost, but they could get the pro-rated USAFA commitment back. One of my best friends got slapped with a $120K bill from the gov't. It got even more shady. The gov't sold the debt for an unknown amount to a private debt collector. The debt got classified as both education debt AND gov't debt which means that A) he couldn't get rid of it in bankruptcy and B) they can garnish wages without a judge's order. As of today, he has a decent job and he is happy. But his wife has to keep her finances separate from him as much as possible since his credit is trash now from the gov't debt. Trying to get anything that needs decent credit is not possible for him alone without exorbitant fees. I'm surprised that he didn't fight it in court. If he was willing to enlist and wasn't allowed he shouldn't have to pay. They could have even reassigned him to another officer field. Edited July 21, 2015 by scoobs
Azimuth Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 Question: A person in that situation, do they have to go through Enlisted Basic Training at Lackland or do they just ship em off to Tech School as an Airman Basic and then their their first base? There's a guy who works for me who quit USAFA his third year. They come in as SrA.
Egghead Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 I'm surprised that he didn't fight it in court. If he was willing to enlist and wasn't allowed he shouldn't have to pay. They could have even reassigned him to another officer field. He fought through congressional inquiries and got some legal advice but ultimately wasn't able to win. I don't know if he tried to enlist or if even offered but I think there were about 10 guys that year who just got slammed by the Air Force if they DOR'd at UPT. For whatever reason, some senior officer had a large stick up his ass and decided to make an example of some people for god knows why. Watching that fiasco go down was my final eye-opening moment with the AF and that everyone is just a number.
ygtbsm Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 Same in mine. I can only name one that I would call "above average." I know the FAIPs remark was a joke, but there really is no comparison. Most FAIPs I've seen are able to hop on the treadmill with accelerated upgrades to eventually catch up to their peers. UPT-D RPA guys... not so much. The ones who came to my community after their UPT-D tour tended to suck. Significantly behind their peers in overall airmanship, SA, etc, and way behind in terms of upgrades vice others in their year group. Not all, of course, but it was a noticeable trend. Question: Where do these crappy pilots go when you close the UAV pipeline? Do they just go away? Or do they go directly to your squadron? If the UAV pipeline is open, at least these "bottom feeders" arrive at your squadron with 3 years of experience in a squadron under their belt. Also, many of these "$hit bags" have actually employed weapons and killed for their country unlike c-130 pilots. (except for the occasional paratrooper who lands on his face) 14
guineapigfury Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 Bro, that remark in the parentheses is over the line. 1
FUEL Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 If the UAV pipeline is open, at least these "bottom feeders" arrive at your squadron with 3 years of experience in a squadron under their belt. Also, many of these "$hit bags" have actually employed weapons and killed for their country unlike c-130 pilots. (except for the occasional paratrooper who lands on his face) This would be fine if there was, and the pilots planned, to be some type of career aviator. However, there is still pressure to make him/her an Aircraft Commander or Flight lead and give opportunity for follow on upgrades to make them competitive with their year group. I saw this particularly true in the MAF, I can't speak for the CAF (I assume they are better about not pushing an undeserved upgrade). However, late rates still have opportunity to reach command so it "shouldn't" be much different; on the other hand these late rates were top top guys to get selected late for UPT. I stand by my previous comment of 3-4 years out of "normal" flying is a hindrance not a help, despite how many AQ/ISIS/KG(insert other terrorist group) you have killed. If killing was a prerequisite for flying, then we would have your "not dead yet paratrooper" flying after his 82nd Airborne tour. Even if the UPT-Ds do go to a platform that performs CAS/DT, they'll be behind their peers (including FAIPs) in every other phase of flight and admin. Didn't they teach you thick skin in UPT? Keeping your hubris and attitude won't help you any either. A little off topic, I've noticed a lot of LT arrogance lately in the RPA world. My hypothesis is currently that since they don't start as a co-pilot or a wingman the SNAPness and cockiness can go unchecked.
Duck Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 Ygtbsm, I think you misunderstood what everyone is saying. Pulling someone that early in their flying career to fly UAVs is extremely tough on the stick and rudder skills and is tough to get back that years worth of UPT flying ability. However it's not just limited to UAV guys. We had a senior guy show up to PIT and struggle due to being a staff/AOC/non-flying job for X years. Flying is a perishable skill, it has little to do with the guys getting UPT-D assignments.
ygtbsm Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 Being an RPA pilot sucks a big floppy donkey dick. Will the USAF honor a promise to send them on to a manned aircraft in 3 years ... maybe. The last bunch of UPT directs escaped, but some are being nonvolled back. Why these filthy noobsauces should get a ticket out while those of us who earned a better life in UPT and were pulled into this nightmare second assignment are stuck forever I do not understand. I should have joined the ######ing Navy. As a "filthy noobsauce", I understand completely the crap that former RPA pilots have to deal with. The number 1 issue is breaking through the stereotype. 1
HU&W Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 As a "filthy noobsauce", I understand completely the crap that former RPA pilots have to deal with. The number 1 issue is breaking through the stereotype. Are your posts an attempt to break the stereotype? 1
Majestik Møøse Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 Don't use words like noobsauce. You are a grownup.
DEVIL Posted July 24, 2015 Posted July 24, 2015 I'm not the oldest or most frequent visitor to baseops, but we have one forum where people were arguing about whether or not airspeed changes what a 3 degree wire means, and another where someone used the word "noobsauce" without trying to be ironic. Guys can we agree to pull our nuggets from whence they are lodged please?
Hercster Posted July 24, 2015 Posted July 24, 2015 ... (except for the occasional paratrooper who lands on his face) ...and now you're part of the problem. Congrats.
Razor666 Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 Let's bring this thread back to its purpose. ENJJPT 15-07 B-52 x 3 F-16 F-16 (Netherlands) C-130 x 2 Netherlands A-10 Guard A-10 T-38 FAIP F-22 x 3 F-16 x 2 CV-22 Tornado x 2 - Italy Tornado - Germany F-15E B-1 EC-130 MC-130 C-130 No drones but there is still a lot more drops and more time to go. We will stayed tuned to the other bases drops.
hispeed7721 Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 Not too bad...if that's 15-07, any numbers for 15-08 through 15-12? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
504PIR Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) I read these comments on a "football board" - about two former Air Force Academy QBs. Comment 1 "Neat release from the AD... Seems XXXX (QB Class of 2008) is going through pilot training and YYYY (Class of 2012) was his solo instructor... Kind of cool... So it appears YYYY was a FAIP, many of us were... But what has XXXX been doing these years?" Comment 2 (from Navy grad/pilot) "Help me out here fellas. I understand why XXXX would want to go to flight training.......who wouldn't ? I DON'T understand why the USAF would want to send him. He's seven years behind his year group.....five years behind his classmates that got stashed after graduation (I'm assuming you do it too). His classmates have all completed at least their first Squadron tour and are Section/Division leaders, Plane Commanders, etc. Some of them are probably already TPS grads. I don't see how XXXX can ever be competitive for command or even promotion beyond O-4. I would think he'd be behind the eight ball for O-4 promotion, which would require him to go home. Assuming he'll have an eight year obligation after winging ( I don't know what it is these days), he may well have failed to select for O-4 before he even completes his initial obliserv. Bottom line is he may well be qualified for the airlines, but it's hard for me to see how the USAF is going to get their money's worth. Fire away." Edited July 25, 2015 by 504PIR
HU&W Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 Not too bad...if that's 15-07, any numbers for 15-08 through 15-12? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk EN has fewer classes per year.
hispeed7721 Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) CBM didn't...15-13 is either this coming Friday or the one after that Edit: I can't keep track of all the different classes Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited July 25, 2015 by hispeed7721
quicksilver88 Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 Did Laughlin, Columbus, or Vance drop last night? Laughlin drops 31 Jul.
hispeed7721 Posted July 31, 2015 Posted July 31, 2015 CBM 15-13 T38 T6 FAIP B52 Barksdale F22 Tyndall T1 C17 Travis C130H Maxwell AFRC C17 McChord AFRC EC130 DM KC10 McGuire AFRC C17 Charleston C130H IL ANG MQ9 Creech KC10 Travis U125A Japan E3 Tinker KC135 AZ ANG MQ9 Creech KC10 McGuire C17 Travis Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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