Track Selects and Assignment Nights

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

As soon as "don't fear the reaper" was playing in the background, he pretty much knew right then. On the long walk back to the rest of class, you could tell he was trying to hold it back. I kept taking occasional looks behind me to see how he was doing. Some sobbing, but nothing gross I would say. I didn't see him the rest of the night.

The dude worked his ass off only to find out only 2 weeks before drop that starting with our class 2 unlucky souls were getting reap'd, when there was absolutely nothing anyone could do at that point to increase their MASS (sp?) scores. I feel bad for him in that regard, but they are telling us that they will get a fixed wing after they are done with the RPA tour. He will be okay.

I agree, the right thing to do would have been to pull those guys aside and say, "prepare yourself". Dropping that bomb in front of everyone had to be done, but yeah, it could have been handled a little better.

"No way to raise your MASS" after hearing about RPAs? I'm kind of glad that the threat is real again, it will light a fire under entitled students who think all they need to do is show up, warm a seat, and they are entitled to wings. There was no real incentive to do well. You bomb UPT and you get an E-3 to Tinker.... oh no. Tell me how TERRIBLE that type rating in a four engine Boeing heavy is. Oklahoma city? That sounds horrible. I can't believe they would make you PCS to Alaska, Germany, or Japan after that! Now there's a real penalty for doing poorly in UPT. There is also talk of RPAs not being directly tied to MASS. What that means it the shitbag with the poor attitude but decent hands still isn't safe.

[sqwatch]

"No way to raise your MASS" after hearing about RPAs? I'm kind of glad that the threat is real again, it will light a fire under entitled students who think all they need to do is show up, warm a seat, and they are entitled to wings. There was no real incentive to do well. You bomb UPT and you get an E-3 to Tinker.... oh no. Tell me how TERRIBLE that type rating in a four engine Boeing heavy is. Oklahoma city? That sounds horrible. I can't believe they would make you PCS to Alaska, Germany, or Japan after that! Now there's a real penalty for doing poorly in UPT. There is also talk of RPAs not being directly tied to MASS. What that means it the shitbag with the poor attitude but decent hands still isn't safe.

the penalty of washing out was good enough for me. as a taxpayer, i'm disappointed that a UPT syllabus is spent only to have someone fly a drone. as a human, I empathize with a guy or gal that signed up for ten years of service largely to fly airplanes. I'm old and crusty now, and am generally the first guy to turn the music down and yell "get off my lawn", but i don't think the perpetrators of the "entitled generation" are the ones volunteering for the military when nationalism is low and the private sector is hiring.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

the penalty of washing out was good enough for me. as a taxpayer, i'm disappointed that a UPT syllabus is spent only to have someone fly a drone. as a human, I empathize with a guy or gal that signed up for ten years of service largely to fly airplanes. I'm old and crusty now, and am generally the first guy to turn the music down and yell "get off my lawn", but i don't think the perpetrators of the "entitled generation" are the ones volunteering for the military when nationalism is low and the private sector is hiring.

You'd be surprised at some of the students going through UPT right now. Not all, not most, but some.

[sqwatch]

You'd be surprised at some of the students going through UPT right now. Not all, not most, but some.

Meh, you're probably right.

[HU&W]

You'd be surprised at some of the students going through UPT right now. Not all, not most, but some.

And the best part is that we're sending the worst UPT performers to the aircraft that provides the pilot with the lowest SA for deconfliction (not even a window) and no AC to watch them as a baby Copilot.

[Sketch]

I'm kind of glad that the threat is real again, it will light a fire under entitled students who think all they need to do is show up, warm a seat, and they are entitled to wings. There was no real incentive to do well. You bomb UPT and you get an E-3 to Tinker.... oh no. Tell me how TERRIBLE that type rating in a four engine Boeing heavy is. Oklahoma city? That sounds horrible. I can't believe they would make you PCS to Alaska, Germany, or Japan after that! Now there's a real penalty for doing poorly in UPT. There is also talk of RPAs not being directly tied to MASS. What that means it the shitbag with the poor attitude but decent hands still isn't safe.

Obviously I'm ignorant of the UPT world, but I have to ask are there actually studs like this? Guys that show up and think they're entitled to a seat if they just scrape by? I would think the long, difficult process of getting into pilot training would weed out those types of people. I don't know, maybe I just can't fathom that type of thinking.

[hispeed7721]

Obviously I'm ignorant of the UPT world, but I have to ask are there actually studs like this? Guys that show up and think they're entitled to a seat if they just scrape by?

Yes, there most definitely are. Like Napoleon said, they're not the majority...but they certainly are there.

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Edited August 4, 2015 by hispeed7721

[herkbum]

Yes, there most definitely are. Like Napoleon said, they're not the majority...but they certainly are there.

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Then they should be crushed accordingly. It's a failure of the system if those types graduate with that attitude. And the instructors should be held accountable. Edited August 4, 2015 by herkbum

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

Obviously I'm ignorant of the UPT world, but I have to ask are there actually studs like this? Guys that show up and think they're entitled to a seat if they just scrape by? I would think the long, difficult process of getting into pilot training would weed out those types of people. I don't know, maybe I just can't fathom that type of thinking.

Yes, there most certainly are. Usually they are the kids who did well in school (or had some strong sponsors along the way) and UPT presents them with their first real challenge and/or the first place where their excuses and quibbling is not tolerated. They tend to lack coping mechanisms for failure and tend to project their weakness on others, either their classmates or the IPs, usually both.

[Sketch]

Yes, there most definitely are. Like Napoleon said, they're not the majority...but they certainly are there.

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Yes, there most certainly are. Usually they are the kids who did well in school (or had some strong sponsors along the way) and UPT presents them with their first real challenge and/or the first place where their excuses and quibbling is not tolerated. They tend to lack coping mechanisms for failure and tend to project their weakness on others, either their classmates or the IPs, usually both.

Wow, I'm fairly surprised to be honest. Like I said I figured almost all of those people wouldnt have made it that far with that attitude. When I was in ROTC just about all our pilot selects were gung ho and really wanted it. Obviously not everyone wants to go to ENJJPT and drop a raptor but damn. I guess its inevitable for a few to squeeze through the cracks. I'm assuming they usually end up at the bottom anyway due to peer/flight commander rankings right? How does these folks tend to fair in the ops world?

[A man for all seasons]

I don't get it. So if he had known from the beginning of UPT that UAVs were an option he would have "worked his ass off" harder? Working his ass off like he did obviously earned him in the bottom two of his class so there should be some motivation to not end up there, UAV or not in the drop.

I read somewhere that the bottom two are not neccesarily the ones that will be given RPAs. Supposedly the AF is trying to avoid the missileer fiasco by not scraping the bottom. Not sure if it's correct.....perhaps someone with insight into the recent RPA drops could validate?

[HeloDude]

Go helos...avoid RPA's. Sounds like a pretty good slogan!

...oh, and more importantly, helicopters are bad ass!

[tac airlifter]

I read somewhere that the bottom two are not neccesarily the ones that will be given RPAs. Supposedly the AF is trying to avoid the missileer fiasco by not scraping the bottom. Not sure if it's correct.....perhaps someone with insight into the recent RPA drops could validate?

I can't speak to UPT, but for cross flow within AFSOC to RPAs half the guys we send must consistently strat in the top 20% at a minimum.

[hispeed7721]

I read somewhere that the bottom two are not neccesarily the ones that will be given RPAs. Supposedly the AF is trying to avoid the missileer fiasco by not scraping the bottom. Not sure if it's correct.....perhaps someone with insight into the recent RPA drops could validate?

In my small corner of the AF, it's just like any other assignable airframe. Every student is putting it last, and that leads to the two lowest mass scores getting it.

There was a "discussion" recently between some flight/CC's and a certain DO about whether or not late rate Capt's can be assigned RPA's because of career impact (ie they can't FAIP so they shouldn't be sent to RPA). The flight/CC's felt that the assignments should be based solely on mass (so if a Capt is in the bottom, he/she will get the RPA if that's all that's left) but the DO believes that the Capt's should be safe from RPA assignments regardless of mass.

Having only had 1 class drop so far with the mandated RPA's, I think it's going to get far mor complicated in the near future

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[Napoleon_Tanerite]

I read somewhere that the bottom two are not neccesarily the ones that will be given RPAs. Supposedly the AF is trying to avoid the missileer fiasco by not scraping the bottom. Not sure if it's correct.....perhaps someone with insight into the recent RPA drops could validate?

I'm not going to say too much about the recent drop, but I can confirm that the RPA selection is not strictly MASS based. It's not necessarily the bottom two guys who automatically get the RPA. There's a lot of Flt/CC discretion there, usually in conference with the Sq/CC. On the other side of the coin, there's no "go do" regarding NOT giving the RPAs to bottom third types.

Suffice to say, the RPAs will likely go to guys who have taken steps to remove their future from their immediate control, either via poor performance or poor attitude.

[Breckey]

Go helos...avoid RPA's. Sounds like a pretty good slogan!

...oh, and more importantly, helicopters are bad ass!

Only for UPT. I know they are dropping in the VML for a select few unlucky souls. Something to the effect of 11Hs need to pay the piper.

[Majestik Møøse]

This all sucks. These dudes should just have to sign an 18X ADSC; if they take a manned jet for a 2nd assignment then they could serve out the original UPT commitment.

[raimius]

Go helos...avoid RPA's. Sounds like a pretty good slogan!

...oh, and more importantly, helicopters are bad ass!

...THE HORROR...

...the horror...

[HeloDude]

This all sucks. These dudes should just have to sign an 18X ADSC; if they take a manned jet for a 2nd assignment then they could serve out the original UPT commitment.

No...the 10 year ADSC is for going to UPT.

[Boomer6]

The dude worked his ass off only to find out only 2 weeks before drop that starting with our class 2 unlucky souls were getting reap'd, when there was absolutely nothing anyone could do at that point to increase their MASS (sp?) scores. I feel bad for him in that regard, but they are telling us that they will get a fixed wing after they are done with the RPA tour. He will be okay.

I agree, the right thing to do would have been to pull those guys aside and say, "prepare yourself". Dropping that bomb in front of everyone had to be done, but yeah, it could have been handled a little better.

Ya, T-1 bros find out weeks before the drop what aircraft will be dropping across the UPT bases. If a dude is number last of 20 in his class and hasn't mentally prepared for the possibility of getting one of the RPAs in his drop then that's on him.

Oh btw, -38 bros don't know jack about the aircraft that are dropping until they see it pop up on the screen when it's their turn.

I thought the OG standing up before the drop and saying that two studs were getting RPAs with a signed guarantee of a manned follow on was a good way to handle it. The icing on the cake was encouraging the crowd to cheer extra loud for them when they got their drop and then buy them a drink after.

With two weeks notice and the speech from the OG before the drop idk how else you think it could have been handled better. Maybe there should be a box of tissues on stage and we should have their mom's on standby to coddle them.

There's no crying in baseball!

Edited August 5, 2015 by Boomer6

[Ram]

Back in my day at ENJJPT (almost 15 years ago, admittedly before the drop night weirdness started), the SQ/CC and Flt/CC would sit down with all studs receiving a bomber or FAIP assignment about an hour before drop night started.

This was done at the option of the studs. For example, the Flt/CC would ask if anyone DIDN'T want to be notified ahead of time.

As a result, I knew I was going to be a T-38 FAIP over an hour before the festivities started, giving me plenty of time to get a head start on my personal bottle of Weed (which led to many fun run-ins with the Hooters girls we had at assignment night passing out chicken wings).

...but that was a different time in a different Air Force.

[A man for all seasons]

No...the 10 year ADSC is for going to UPT.

According to the "memo".

"Questions: As always if anyone has any questions or concerns please let us know and we will try to address them as best we can and promise to provide the full extent of available information as soon as we have it. Please funnel them through your respective flight commander and we will pass them up the chain. Additional details received over the comings weeks/months will be passed on as we receive the information. Several questions were asked this morning that are all still unknowns:

Unknown - If RPA career is chosen and opportunity to switch to manned cockpit is not taken, does this remove the opportunity of "aviation continuation pay," a benefit of up to $25,000 a year that's currently restricted to manned aircraft pilots only.

Unknown - Will the pilot commitment change if we are switched to an unmanned RPA career field or will the 10 year UPT commitment remain unchanged.

Unknown - Are we considered temporary RPA pilots or since this is a first assignment are we considered permanent RPA pilots? Will our AFSC change to 18X and at what point? Current distribution can be seen below but actual designation is currently unknown.

Unknown - How long does one tour consist of, are we talking 2,3,4 or maybe 6 years?"

[Royal]

I'm glad to hear they have all the big issues ironed out before sending dudes down that path.

[Fuzz]

I'm glad to hear they have all the big issues ironed out before sending dudes down that path.

After the VSP/RIF shitshow last year could we really expect anything different?

[hispeed7721]

I'm glad to hear they have all the big issues ironed out before sending dudes down that path.

You mean "Shoot, Ready, Aim" ISNT the way it's supposed to happen?

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