Track Selects and Assignment Nights

[KoolaidDrinker69]

7 hours ago, YoungnDumb said:

If you're referring to the instance that happened a few years back at Vance those FAIPs are already gone, they got their assignments 1-2 years back so they had no bearing on this years FAIP drop.

Faips are on station 2-3 years. There was at least one or two involved. Most of them were last drop. 

[KoolaidDrinker69]

4 hours ago, hispeed7721 said:

 

If it was publicly briefed wing wide, then why in your previous post did you say it was not public info?

Either you're being overly dramatic because you feel like you got screwed, or you're trying to burn someone else to make yourself feel better, or both. Either way, pretty weak.


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I think you misread the lack of inflection on that one. Sarcasm is a tough sell to the internet looking for something to grab onto that aligns with their own opinions. I did not get screwed. Promise. Was directed to this discussion by a FAIP. Who wasn't involved in this drop at all. But I'm glad you're ignoring the point of it all. 

[KoolaidDrinker69]

8 hours ago, di1630 said:

I saw some awesome T-6 faips get Q3'd sime years back for doing std pilot stuff but their CC was a CYA careerist d-bag so they got screwed.

When I was in AETC some fatty driver clown recommended me with a Q3 for doing a unrestricted climb during a UCI which got quickly disregarded by fighter leadership but you see how this crap works.

Bottom line is that AETC is a shitshow. Take the praise/punishment you see from those places lightly.


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I think this hits the nail on the nugget. One commander looked out for his dude and the other didn't. Just doesn't sit well watching someone work hard and keep his nose relatively clean and getting screwed. Fun fact. Once the commanders come up with their rack and stack it goes to the OG. Who can without telling anyone put up the drop he wants anyways. Interesting process. I'm wondering if beyond the commanders the dude may have rubbed the previous OG the wrong way. 

[hispeed7721]

words

Misreading sarcasm is totally fair and if that's what happened, my bad. I don't have a dog in the fight, it came off like you were trying to hang another dude out to dry because something happened you didn't like.


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[KoolaidDrinker69]

10 minutes ago, hispeed7721 said:

 

Misreading sarcasm is totally fair and if that's what happened, my bad. I don't have a dog in the fight, it came off like you were trying to hang another dude out to dry because something happened you didn't like.


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No man, that would be pretty douchey. The only thing I'm trying to hang out to dry is a seeming lack of leadership making decisions on people that very likely will be in the decision making process of killing people. If any of you all have been around UPT in the last 5 years there has been a systemic lack of actual fighter pilots. This obviously due to the need to keep them in a community hemorrhaging them. The unintended side effect is we have people in positions making decisions of "is this the right dude for a fighter aircraft" that have never made any of those decisions in their life. It's the number one reason I think FAIPs should never be flight CCs. The squadrons NEED to incorporate the fighter guys into that decision making process. Alas, at Vance at least there was a certain CC that specifically handcuffed flights to not take input from the flight IPs in the assignment process due to other events for another discussion. Seems like a foul to me. Thankfully I believe there has always been at least one fighter type dude as the OG or one of the Dogs.  I just think there is a real lack of the big picture facts of what those guys are going off to do eventually and more focus on what jobs you did or that sweet strat you got as an exec. UPT makes a product, I would hope they're pushing the best of that product to the life and death jobs out there.

[Duck]

Not that this is any comfort, but what do you expect? We can't even get our end strength numbers correct, much less select people for airframes at the right time and in the right proportions. FAIPs getting screwed on the FAIP drop is nothing new. People in the Air Force getting screwed through the assignment process happens all the time. I've had Studs deserve fighters more than a shitty FAIP and get sent to some other less desirable assignment on his list, while watching a FAIP who shouldn't even get a Buff go to a fighter. Life isn't fair and your desires only matter if it lines up with what the Air Force desires for you. I don't see this changing either unfortunately.

Having said that I know several B-52 guys who have gone on to B-2s, WIC and ended up making the best of a situation they didn't deserve.

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[matmacwc]

Talk to the superFAIPS from the mid 90's, that was a screw job.

[MD]

28 minutes ago, matmacwc said:

Talk to the superFAIPS from the mid 90's, that was a screw job.

No doubt. Guys who were FAIPs at say Willie, but less than 2 years or so, got PCSd to another UPT base when Willie was closing to finish out their FAIP tour. But because they got a paid PCS, their FAIP tour was rehacked to another 3 years, for a total of 5 to sometimes nearly 6 years as a FAIP.

Or UPT studs. How about having something happen that would result in a wash back, medical or something, but instead gets made a washout; because there are no classes behind you to wash back to?

[Jaded]

The fact that things may have been worse at some point in the past should not be allowed to be used as an argument to justify idiotic policies in the present.

[MD]

22 minutes ago, Jaded said:

The fact that things may have been worse at some point in the past should not be allowed to be used as an argument to justify idiotic policies in the present.

 

Not justifying it in the least. Am pointing out that the idiocy is nothing new. Just a different flavor that the corporation produces. Enjoy.

Edited November 2, 2016 by MD

[faipmafiaofficial]

There is nothing wrong with the FAIP assignment process. 38 kids who got bombers should have worked harder.

there will always be "undesirable" assignments in the drop pool for FAIPS. That will never change.

IMO giving more fighters to studs right now is very smart. They are locked in for 10 years where FAIPS are only locked in for another 5ish max (starting from square 1 when they start).  I bet all these studs now fly operational for 4 years then go straight back to AETC

Edited November 2, 2016 by faipmafiaofficial

[matmacwc]

Let's not forget that FAIPs aren't owed anything, I've seen that attitude in the past as well

[Learjetter]

Interestingly...a lot of BUFF-BASHING going on from people who've never flown them. Unleashed, that aircraft can deliver devestation the likes of which haven't been seen since 2002. She may not be pretty, but she sure as hell is sexy where it counts.

[MD]

3 minutes ago, Learjetter said:

Interestingly...a lot of BUFF-BASHING going on from people who've never flown them. Unleashed, that aircraft can deliver devestation the likes of which haven't been seen since 2002. She may not be pretty, but she sure as hell is sexy where it counts.

 

Just ask the North Vietnamese how their Christmas time went in 1972

[Boomer6]

3 hours ago, faipmafiaofficial said:

There is nothing wrong with the FAIP assignment process. 38 kids who got bombers should have worked harder.

there will always be "undesirable" assignments in the drop pool for FAIPS. That will never change.

IMO giving more fighters to studs right now is very smart. They are locked in for 10 years where FAIPS are only locked in for another 5ish max (starting from square 1 when they start).  I bet all these studs now fly operational for 4 years then go straight back to AETC

You must think AFPC and big blue dole out assignments based on merit and effort put forth in the job. If that were the case maybe people wouldn't be climbing over each other for the door.

That's a great way to look at it. No need to fix the issues that are driving the mass exodus when you can fill cockpits with any stud with a pulse because you can "lock them in" for longer than you can a FAIP.

[ViperStud]

50 minutes ago, Boomer6 said:

You must think AFPC and big blue dole out assignments based on merit and effort put forth in the job. If that were the case maybe people wouldn't be climbing over each other for the door.

That's a great way to look at it. No need to fix the issues that are driving the mass exodus when you can fill cockpits with any stud with a pulse because you can "lock them in" for longer than you can a FAIP.

This. UPT is/was one of the last places where true merit made up the bulk of assignments. It pisses people off, and rightfully so, when this doesn't happen and the underlying reason is someone (even a CC) with an agenda or axe to grind.

This DBag was an agenda-driven blue Kool-Aid pusher - even went so far as to say, verbatim, that he would FAIP a female solely because of the benefit it would bring to the SQ and overall culture. I'm not sure what came of that given that I left shortly after he took over, but imagine if a student found out that the reason she was FAIPed had to do solely with her reproductive hardware.  I'm not sure if a FAIP assignment is universally seen as good or bad, but if it's bad then that's a pretty serious mistake in today's AF.

In most cases I advise people to suck it up because ups and downs were a known quantity when we signed up; there were certainly no airframe, assignment or QOL guarantees.  This is one of the cases where an asshat completely intervened to fulfill his own PFA; frustration is justified. 

[Boomer6]

11 minutes ago, ViperStud said:

This DBag was an agenda-driven blue Kool-Aid pusher - even went so far as to say, verbatim, that he would FAIP a female solely because of the benefit it would bring to the SQ and overall culture. I'm not sure what came of that given that I left shortly after he took over, but imagine if a student found out that the reason she was FAIPed had to do solely with her reproductive hardware.

It's funny you say that..

[Duck]

Interestingly...a lot of BUFF-BASHING going on from people who've never flown them. Unleashed, that aircraft can deliver devestation the likes of which haven't been seen since 2002. She may not be pretty, but she sure as hell is sexy where it counts.

I hope I didn't come across as bashing the Buff. My best friend got his start out of there and I even named my own kid after him.

I think most peoples problem with the Buff is the remaining bases, not the airframe or the mission itself. Minot seems to be a tough pill to swallow for the married and the single.

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[faipmafiaofficial]

20 hours ago, Boomer6 said:

You must think AFPC and big blue dole out assignments based on merit and effort put forth in the job. If that were the case maybe people wouldn't be climbing over each other for the door.

That's a great way to look at it. No need to fix the issues that are driving the mass exodus when you can fill cockpits with any stud with a pulse because you can "lock them in" for longer than you can a FAIP.

They do dole out assignments based on merit to FAIPS...those who rank last get buffs or E8s

 

Who's a better F16 pilot at 5 years in...? A student who's flown them for 4 years or a faip who's flown t-6s for 5 years??

Edited November 3, 2016 by faipmafiaofficial

[matmacwc]

The person with 4 years experience, in general.

[faipmafiaofficial]

6 minutes ago, matmacwc said:

The person with 4 years experience, in general.

Exactly. So why not give more fighters to the younger guys if you're trying to fix a long term problem. Like I said lots will have to fill AETC billets later as well

 

[Jaded]

2 minutes ago, faipmafiaofficial said:

Exactly. So why not give more fighters to the younger guys if you're trying to fix a long term problem. Like I said lots will have to fill AETC billets later as well

 

Because that's using a bandaid to treat a wound rather than fixing the underlying problem.

[ViperStud]

33 minutes ago, faipmafiaofficial said:

They do dole out assignments based on merit to FAIPS...those who rank last get buffs or E8s

 

Who's a better F16 pilot at 5 years in...? A student who's flown them for 4 years or a faip who's flown t-6s for 5 years??

You're adorable.  Second statement is irrelevant - FAIPs are requested by and will continue to go to all platforms for various reasons.  Plus, Jaded is right.  Hey, let's sprinkle a little quick-clot on that gushing artery...everything will be fine!

Your first statement shows a complete lack of understanding of the assignment process.  Rankings derived from "merit" vs the "rack-and-stack" are two very different things.  Merit is an objective measure.  UPT MASS scores are close to merit (factoring in daily rides, checkrides, test scores) but even they contain some subjectivity (Flight CC ranking) which can swing rankings.  The rack-and-stack is an extremely subjective system that considers CGOQ/Y awards, progress towards advanced degrees (yes, it still gets factored in by many CCs), PME completion, volunteering, self-improvement, etc.  There are some flying factors (checkrides, daily contributions) but generally the additional duties reign supreme.  FAIPs are rack-and-stacked by their CCs and, ultimately, the OG.  Commanders love to be fellated; many allow such actions (or personality clashes & PFAs) to cloud their judgment when ranking people.  You come off sounding like a complete ass kisser who probably commands little respect from your peers.

[faipmafiaofficial]

49 minutes ago, ViperStud said:

You're adorable.  Second statement is irrelevant - FAIPs are requested by and will continue to go to all platforms for various reasons.  Plus, Jaded is right.  Hey, let's sprinkle a little quick-clot on that gushing artery...everything will be fine!

Your first statement shows a complete lack of understanding of the assignment process.  Rankings derived from "merit" vs the "rack-and-stack" are two very different things.  Merit is an objective measure.  UPT MASS scores are close to merit (factoring in daily rides, checkrides, test scores) but even they contain some subjectivity (Flight CC ranking) which can swing rankings.  The rack-and-stack is an extremely subjective system that considers CGOQ/Y awards, progress towards advanced degrees (yes, it still gets factored in by many CCs), PME completion, volunteering, self-improvement, etc.  There are some flying factors (checkrides, daily contributions) but generally the additional duties reign supreme.  FAIPs are rack-and-stacked by their CCs and, ultimately, the OG.  Commanders love to be fellated; many allow such actions (or personality clashes & PFAs) to cloud their judgment when ranking people.  You come off sounding like a complete ass kisser who probably commands little respect from your peers.

Wrong at least for Columbus. All FAIPS put all their accomplishments and failures both in the jet and as an officer on an official form.  All kinds of stuff is on that form. That form is then ranked using a points system by every sqcc in the group with NO names on any form.  therefore nobody knows who's who. Then they are put in a pile from top to bottom and that's the rack and stack. Merit = the quality of being particularly good or worthy, especially so as to deserve praise or reward.  So ya it's based on merit. If you bust your ass more than the other FAIPS AND play the game well you will be ranked high

 

but at the end of the day someone has to finish last and that's when people get butt hurt about not getting the fighter they think they deserve 

And ya I actually do know a ton about the assignment process.

Edited November 4, 2016 by faipmafiaofficial

[Ram]

Let me qualify the following by mentioning that I was a T-38 FAIP.  That means that my opinion - while informed on the topic - is also biased because I believe that I am fvcking awesome.  Deal with it.

 

I think we need FAIPs at UPT, and UPT would be a worse-off place without them.  

 

Sure, there are plenty of LTs walking the halls of any UPT base, and there are plenty of those LTs that can get shouldered with some bitch work around the squadron.  But really, those cats are students in a challenging course, and their time needs to be protected by their flight commander and other leadership to make sure they spend their time and focus in the right place:  Mastering the basic flight admin they won't have the time to learn later.

So, because those LT studs definitely CANNOT be tasked with many of the things around any SQ that you'd normally give to a LT or young Capt wingman in a CAF squadron, someone has to be there to pick up the slack.  This is where your young FAIPs come in, and this is also why being a FAIP has some pretty awesome and pretty not-so-awesome aspects.  You can (and absolutely SHOULD) fly and instruct your fvcking ASS off as a FAIP.  On the other hand, you're going to get some shit duties around the squadron, and you'll probably be working longer hours than your average fresh-from-the-CAF 4FL Viper/Eagle guy who's now flying white jets.  That's ok...that CAF dude needs a little break.

 

Now, because FAIPs end up a bit behind the power curve when they hit the CAF, they gotta be wise to this and have good leadership show them how to be prepared for later.  Personal/professional goals might be easier to accomplish in that AETC assignment than later in the CAF.  Developing winning habit patterns related to basic admin, study, and work ethic pay big dividends later.  LISTENING WELL to the older dudes from the CAF and internalizing their lessons can be huge.  

 

These things enable a FAIP to hit IFF, RTU, MQT, and beyond with the basic skill set that will ensure success.

It goes without saying that squandering that time as a FAIP will bring one to the opposite extreme.

 

So my advice to FAIPs is this:  Don't think that anyone (you, the USAF, your career as a pilot) has hit the big PAUSE button the moment you graduated UPT.  While your UPT bros are off doing fun and amazing shit, don't forget that they are growing as pilots and as professional officers.  YOU MUST ALSO GROW.  Find ways to do that in the situation you've been given, don't slack, and always keep your scope open and set to long range search so you're prepared for the next step of your flying career.  Do all that while flying your ass off and you'll be fine.