Track Selects and Assignment Nights

[Ram]

1 hour ago, Seriously said:

You guys done circle jerking yet?

[Jaded]

Ram, 

Something that I think the reserves does very well is take the long view on things - they'll gladly sacrifice training opportunities for quality of life sometimes because they know they have to keep guys around for 10+ years. Your philosophy:

Quote

 

1.  Every single training sortie needs to be maximized.

2.  No slack for those who don't show their commitment in their daily effort.

3.  Every teachable moment has to be caught, and those lessons need to be TALKED ABOUT in the squadron. 

It sounds great and probably maximizes the short term combat capability of a squadron. However, These types of priorities drive people out of the service completely and created the situation we're in today. The unintended consequences of your list read like this:

1. No cross countries, low levels, or taking students up to 50,000 feet. All gas must be used for maximum training. 

2. Commitment is measured by metrics like time spent at the squadron, at squadron events, and early PME/masters completion. No slack will be given to those who "self select" themselves as non competitive. 

3. Debrief until crew rest for the next day to catch all of the lessons. Friday pilot meetings begin at the end of the last debrief and last until every person has had a chance to tell us everything they possibly can. 

I know you didn't necessarily mean any of what I wrote, but I would suggest that you are not the first soon-to-be DO with that sort of philosophy, and look where that's got us.

The paradigm needs to shift from crushing people for short term goals to creating a sustainable method to maintain a healthy fighter force. I do not think your path is the way.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Jaded

[Ram]

9 hours ago, Jaded said:

Ram, 

Something that I think the reserves does very well is take the long view on things - they'll gladly sacrifice training opportunities for quality of life sometimes because they know they have to keep guys around for 10+ years. Your philosophy:

It sounds great and probably maximizes the short term combat capability of a squadron. However, These types of priorities drive people out of the service completely and created the situation we're in today. The unintended consequences of your list read like this:

1. No cross countries, low levels, or taking students up to 50,000 feet. All gas must be used for maximum training. 

2. Commitment is measured by metrics like time spent at the squadron, at squadron events, and early PME/masters completion. No slack will be given to those who "self select" themselves as non competitive. 

3. Debrief until crew rest for the next day to catch all of the lessons. Friday pilot meetings begin at the end of the last debrief and last until every person has had a chance to tell us everything they possibly can. 

I know you didn't necessarily mean any of what I wrote, but I would suggest that you are not the first soon-to-be DO with that sort of philosophy, and look where that's got us.

The paradigm needs to shift from crushing people for short term goals to creating a sustainable method to maintain a healthy fighter force. I do not think your path is the way.

There's a boring, effortless, and family-taxing way of maximizing training given the resources we have.  There are also ways to keep the CAF FHP exciting, well-organized, and inclusive of innovative training opportunities without putting undue cost on the lives of the bros in the SQ.  

It's up to the SQ leadership to find a way to keep the training maximized while not exhausting the bros.  The F-16 is a fantastic weapon system, but it is useless without an outstanding aviator sitting in that ACES-II.  Call it the human weapon system, if you will.

You gotta realize who I'm writing to in this thread...the thread about assignment night drops.  Lots of young LTs and Capts here...moreso than the other threads.  Too much negativity and doom/gloom, and they don't know how to temper it with experience.  Know your audience.

So yeah, I totally understand where you're coming from, and I know that your post is not a spear at me.  That said, I don't understand where you got your 3 points from what I said, and I'll discuss why I disagree one by one.

1.  I never said no XC, LOWAT, or 50k space rides.  Everyone has instrument beans, LOWAT, and red-air sorties they need to accomplish.  XC can be done.  Obviously we're not talking about a squadron $100,000 hamburger party once a month, but there are good deals that can be found.  I've seen it done several different ways, and here are a few:  Airshow static displays, out-and-backs to other bases to verify their ability to catch/service/turn jets for contingencies, training done on the way to a TDY at an outbase for some dissimilar A/A.  LOWAT is a no-brainer.  And anyone who's ever been fragged for the HFF while flying red-air doesn't have a hair on their ass if they're not going to 45k+ and seeing how fast they can go (within ops limits).  It can be done.  Seeing yourself on the schedule for an instrument ride or red-air doesn't mean you just sigh and accept that it's going to be a boring sortie.  FLs and IPs leading those rides need to be pushing their formations to ensure they're getting learning out of the sortie, instead of just being radar reflectors.  Wingmen need to demand the same out of their FL and IPs.

2.  In all my talk about putting KILLING AND SURVIVING as the #1 priority (and I also said that the FGOs need to screen the BS from the dudes with bars on their shoulders), I don't know how in the hell you plucked "masters/PME/bullshit events/etc" from my words.  I know you're a smart man, but this was a hiccup in your reading comprehension.  Effort put toward KILLING AND SURVIVING needs to be recognized.  FGOs around the squadron are the ones who need to demonstrate this balance to the younger pups.  Getting promoted can be important, but I'm sure my wife and kids would rather have me hit a merge as a Major and live to RTB than die as a Lt Col.  All of us need to realize that our own personal lethality and survivability is gained via a finite amount of man-hours and effort.  Spend it carefully.  Show others how they need to spend theirs.

3.  Not every day needs to feel like an episode of 24.  No one can live like that long-term.  Friday night pilot meetings before a roll call can be great if they're led well.  We don't need to have everyone give a 36' recap of their weeks' sorties to the peanut gallery.  What we NEED are regular pilot meetings with lessons learned.  What we NEED are bros on upgrade rides writing down their DFPs and associated fvck-ups/attaboys so others can learn from THEIR experience.  MQT/FLUG/IPUG aren't just for the upgradee...EVERYONE needs to be able to learn from the spent resources.  I've seen it done really well with a book of lessons learned kept in the vault.  Good patches know what I'm talking about.

 

Finally, don't speak too soon about me becoming a DO.  I'm neither an HPO or a Patch, and CAF DO jobs go to those dudes so they can get ready to be CAF SQ/CCs.  Maybe there are bros out there like me, but they think that being some attached FGO somewhere means that they can't affect anything in the CAF.  WRONG.  The young guys will listen.  Your voice might not be as loud or as frequent as the DO or the CC, but you need to be there speaking all the same.

1.  Don't be invisible.  Be in the vault as much as you can.  Just because you're not scheduled to teach academics doesn't mean you can't be there to answer questions, grab some pens, and impart some knowledge.

2.  Your AFSC says PILOT, not Wing (INSERT ATTACHED JOB HERE).  Take that for what it's worth.

3.  Don't suck in the jet.  It's harder when you're attached, but if you need extra sim time or study opportunities, you need to take care of you.  The young guys won't listen if you're not credible.  That's entirely within your control.

[Jaded]

Ram, 

I've been to that commander's call before. I understand the message you are trying to send to the young guys. Rather than just throwing more spears while we continue to talk past each other, let me just suggest an alternative message that OGs and commanders should be telling their guys:

"You guys are our biggest asset. Preserving the future human capital of the air force is our highest priority. Maximize your time with your family - the USAF will get its fair share of your time. We are here to remove obstacles that make your home or work life more difficult than it needs to be."

You'll have the tactical pilots you express a desire for because you will actually have IPs with more than 10 years of service. The USAF won't need to shorten b courses or send 2 year FLs to IFF. The unintended consequences of this "tactical proficiency first!" strategy is a CF in this whole DFP.  

Your lack of "pedigree" (lol) is why I have some faith that you can tread a different path. Don't fall into the same trap that your predecessors have fallen into. 

[Ram]

So we both agree that maintaining combat capability at our current levels is critical.  I'm good with that.  I even think we agree with the how, but - as you said - we are talking past each other.

Imagine:

1.  CGOs being left to be the tactical experts they need to be.

2.  FGOs making sure CGOs have the resources they need and are free of bullshit so the CGOs can do their jobs.

 

We need both.  I was focusing on the CGO side, and you're making sure we don't forget about #2.  Again - I'm good with that.

 

I think the fact that both #1 and #2 above have been mis-managed are our biggest CFs in this DFP.  Pilots ARE our biggest asset, and the young guys feel like their time has been wasted by distractions that have held them back from being the tactical mofo CGOs they want to be.  You said it yourself above:  Masters degrees, bake sales, christmas parties...etc...that's not why guys have signed 10 years of their lives away to wear wings.  

They wanted wings because they want to WIN and wanted to be on a winning team.  This is half of the manning problem.

You're talking about the other half:  Burn out.  You can't change the fact that military life is hard, but treating manpower like it's some easily-replenishable resource (you know, the way A1 manages manpower...poorly) is killing us.  You can't buy a CAF IP with 10 years of experience or just re-recruit one.

 

There is a price for a CAF IP with 10 years of experience.  A1 thinks that price is $25K/year for 9 years.  I disagree.  The price is a 10 year wait to replace that CAF IP.

 

Our problems aren't going away until we recognize that we need to let dudes be tactical AND also be cognizant of the fact that they can find happiness elsewhere, should dissatisfaction with active duty grow too large.

[Thor]

Any updates on selects/assignments?

[FishBowl]

10 minutes ago, Thor said:

Any updates on selects/assignments?

I believe there's a drop this Friday. I need to get my drinkin' flightsuit ready. 

[FishBowl]

B2 at DLF

[FishBowl]

And f-35

[Don Frank]

XL 17-03

HC-130J

2 x KC-135

C-21

2 x KC-10

RC-135

2 x C-130J

C-130H

E-3

T-1 FAIP

F-16

F-35

A-10

T-38 FAIP

F-15E

B-2

[Dudemanbro]

Columbus 17-03

38s:

3 x F16

2 x A10

F15E

F35

 

T1:

2 x KC135s to Kansas
2 x U28s to Hurlburt 
Ac130 to Hurlburt 
T6 faip
Cv 22 to Hurlburt
2 x c17 
Some guard 130s, didn't catch any AD
T1 FAIP

[Sparkle]

EN 17-02
Active 
F-35A x 2 
F-15E x 3
F-16C x 2 
F-15C x 1
A-10C x 1
B-1B x 1
T-38C FAIP x 1 
T-6A FAIP x 1
Buff x 2 
B-2 x 1

Guard/Reserve
F-15C x 2 Mass, Louisiana 
F-16C x 3

Foreign 
Canadian CF-18 x 2
Danish F-16 x 1
 

[Duck]

So glad we found a solution to the fighter pilot shortage.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

[Thor]

On 12/3/2016 at 8:59 AM, Rooster said:

Columbus 17-03

38s:

3 x F16

2 x A10

F15E

F35

 

T1:

2 x KC135s to Kansas
2 x U28s to Hurlburt 
Ac130 to Hurlburt 
T6 faip
Cv 22 to Hurlburt
2 x c17 
Some guard 130s, didn't catch any AD
T1 FAIP

I read in another thread (from like 6-8 years ago) that U-28s were dropping at a relatively equal rate from 38s and 1s... is this still true today? Or is the best route to U-28s the T-1? Thanks!

[di1630]

I read in another thread (from like 6-8 years ago) that U-28s were dropping at a relatively equal rate from 38s and 1s... is this still true today? Or is the best route to U-28s the T-1? Thanks!

6-9 years ago was a different AF....if you go thru 38s today, I'd expect a fighter. That being said, if you want a u28 talk to your flt cc in t-6s early so they can guide you.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

[Danger41]

^Great advice.  Most of the new guys we get in U-28's are from T-1's nowadays.  The T-38 guys we get are usually the top grads that choose it (purely antecdotal from 1 of 3 ops squadrons). That doesn't mean you have no chance if you go T-38's and aren't the top grad, but your odds are much higher of ending up in a Viper/Eagle.

[Ahab GZ]

4 AD helps from DLF last track. 

[Duck]

^Great advice.  Most of the new guys we get in U-28's are from T-1's nowadays.  The T-38 guys we get are usually the top grads that choose it (purely antecdotal from 1 of 3 ops squadrons). That doesn't mean you have no chance if you go T-38's and aren't the top grad, but your odds are much higher of ending up in a Viper/Eagle.

Oh how the times have changed... lol


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

[Thor]

Any update from the drops tonight?

[Dudemanbro]

13 hours ago, Thor said:

Any update from the drops tonight?

CBM 17-04:

38s:

2 x F16 to Hollowman

1 x F16 to Tucson

(2 Iraqi F16s, 1 Saudi F15c)

1 x A10 DM

1 x T6 Faip

1 x F22 Tyndall

 

T1s:

2 x C130J to Dyess

T1 FAIP

E3 Tinker

2 x E8 Warner Robbins (1AD, 1ANG

C17 West Virginia ANG

C146 Duke

CV22 Cannon

C130J Yokota

C5 Travis 

Edited January 7, 2017 by Rooster

[Snooter]

Hey where is my replacement in the c-17 coming from?  2x17's across three bases?  Hell maybe I should go to altus; hellllooooo CT sorties...

[Boomer6]

END 17-04

F-16

F-15E

F-15C

A-10

T-38 FAIP

B-2

B-52

 

[TnkrToad]

51 minutes ago, Snooter said:

Hey where is my replacement in the c-17 coming from?  2x17's across three bases?  Hell maybe I should go to altus; hellllooooo CT sorties...

Looks like heavies are getting shorted across the board--C-5s, KC-135s, KC-10s getting shorted, too. Folks getting C-130s here and there, but the numbers hardly seem adequate--especially considering the need to fill both AD and ARC units. The SUPT drops would make one think the AF is awash in heavy drivers/don't need any more. I don't think our rated managers are seeing what I'm seeing . . .

[Ulysses]

13 minutes ago, TnkrToad said:

Looks like heavies are getting shorted across the board--C-5s, KC-135s, KC-10s getting shorted, too. Folks getting C-130s here and there, but the numbers hardly seem adequate--especially considering the need to fill both AD and ARC units. The SUPT drops would make one think the AF is awash in heavy drivers/don't need any more. I don't think our rated managers are seeing what I'm seeing . . .

There are posts over in the ACP thread (some from daynightindicator, specifically) that make it sound like MAF slots are definitely going to be deprioritized, and a lot of T-1 studs will be going to bombers. Does this mean we're gonna see a 700-800 man shortage in heavies in a few years vs. the 11F shortage we're seeing now? Apparently the info is directly from AFPC.

[skylin3]

Vance 17-04

T-1 Side:

AC-130U Hurlburt

CV-22 Hurlburt (Me)

KC-135 March ARB

KC-135 McConnell

KC-135 Fairchild

C-17 McChord

C-5M Travis AFB

E-8 Robins AFB

T-1 FAIP Vance

C-130J Little Rock