Track Selects and Assignment Nights

[YoungnDumb]

1 hour ago, ViperStud said:

For the Vance bubbas - did they get the Woodring runway extension done?  Is that how they are getting 38 dudes to fly 7 days?

Sounds friggin miserable. I hope leadership is taking care of the IP cadre to make sure they get 2/week off. I was teaching at Luke when we had dudes waiting a year for FTU back in 2009/10, and that was before we closed 2 SQs there. This has dumpster fire written all over it. 

Yea they finished last year around this time.  To my memory the 38 bubbas have only used it occassionally.  Last weekend I heard they opened Vance up fully to support a full day of flying. 

Out of curiosity, how is DLF washing people forward?  Weren't they several weeks behind recently due to MX issues and other stuff?  Not throwing spears, just curious.

[TMILL]

Yea they finished last year around this time.  To my memory the 38 bubbas have only used it occassionally.  Last weekend I heard they opened Vance up fully to support a full day of flying. 
Out of curiosity, how is DLF washing people forward?  Weren't they several weeks behind recently due to MX issues and other stuff?  Not throwing spears, just curious.

Well MX has gotten a lot better + incredible weather = timeline success


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[Boomer6]

2 hours ago, ViperStud said:

For the Vance bubbas - did they get the Woodring runway extension done?  Is that how they are getting 38 dudes to fly 7 days?

Sounds friggin miserable. I hope leadership is taking care of the IP cadre to make sure they get 2/week off. I was teaching at Luke when we had dudes waiting a year for FTU back in 2009/10, and that was before we closed 2 SQs there. This has dumpster fire written all over it. 

38 dudes aren't flying 7 days a week. 

Woodring is generally only used as a divert if the center rwy shuts down for some reason (outside rwy still under construction..) Once in a while it's used to launch/recover XCs that won't fit into the XC dep/rec window. 

Also, Vance only opened up for Saturday flying a few weeks ago. Not a constant thing. 

[innovator]

Vance 17-06

T-38s (fighters rained like candy on carnival)

F-35

F-22

F-16 X 4

F-16 Iraq

C-17 Travis

C-17 Charleston

T-1s

C-5M Dover

CV-22 Hurlburt field

EC-130 DM

C-17 Charleston

KC-135 MacDill

KC-135 X 2 Fairchilds

KC-135 Scott

C-21 Scott

KC-10 Mcguire

HC-130J Moody

T-1 FAIP

 

 

[Inertia17]

DLF 17-06

T-38

1x F-15E
1x F-16
1x F-16 ANG
1x F-16 Iraq
1x F-15/16 Singapore
 

T-1

1x B-52
3x C-17
1x U-28
2x KC-10
1x KC-10 AFRC
1x EC-130
2x C-130 ANG
1x HC-130
1x T-6 FAIP

[Dudemanbro]

CBM 17-06

38s:

1 x F22 TY

1 x F15E SJ

1 x A10 DM

1 x T6 Faip 

3 x F16 to Kelly 

 

Showed up late and didn't catch the whole T1 side. I'll update as I hear it

AC130

KC10 Mcguire 

C17 McChord 

T1 FAIP

T6 FAIP

C146 Duke 

KC135 BHM

 

Edited February 26, 2017 by Rooster

[Thor]

19 minutes ago, Rooster said:

CBM 17-06

38s:

1 x F22 TY

1 x F15E SJ

1 x A10 DM

1 x T6 Faip 

3 x F16 to Kelly 

 

Showed up late and didn't catch the whole T1 side. I'll update as I hear it

AC130

KC10 Mcguire 

C17 McChord 

T1 FAIP

T6 FAIP

C146 Duke 

KC135 BHM

 

Were the 3 F-16s to Kelly all Texas ANG guys or is Kelly being used to train active guys, too?

[Kenny Powers]

Were the 3 F-16s to Kelly all Texas ANG guys or is Kelly being used to train active guys, too?

Kelly is a full up B-course. Typically they only have 1 class at a time though.

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[Thor]

1 minute ago, Kenny Powers said:

 

Kelly is a full up B-course. Typically they only have 1 class at a time though.

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Ah, gotcha -- thank you!

[Dudemanbro]

1 hour ago, Thor said:

Were the 3 F-16s to Kelly all Texas ANG guys or is Kelly being used to train active guys, too?

All 3 are AD

[Bode]

Vance 17-06

T-38s (fighters rained like candy on carnival)

F-35

F-22

F-16 X 4

F-16 Iraq

C-17 Travis

C-17 Charleston

T-1s

C-5M Dover

CV-22 Hurlburt field

EC-130 DM

C-17 Charleston

KC-135 MacDill

KC-135 X 2 Fairchilds

KC-135 Scott

C-21 Scott

KC-10 Mcguire

HC-130J Moody

T-1 FAIP

 

 

17s from the 38 side??? Thought is was CAF only? Yet DLF dropped a BUFF from T-1s?

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[innovator]

 

1 hour ago, Ulysses said:

 

My personal guess is the 17s were non-recs, from what I've seen so far in the past few weeks/months. But even then I thought non-recs from 38s were supposed to go bomber. The BUFF from Tones sounds consistent.

 

Ulysses is correct. They were both non-recs.

Alright, I am gonna bitch. Despite what the bigwigs say, both of those 17s were taken from the T-1 pool of assignments. The outcome: those two T-38 students were "saved" from a bomber and in return two of the T-1 students that wanted C-17s got hosed.

Is this fair? I don't know. I will say that if you are going to play ball with the T-38s and want to compete for fighters, you must be ready to face the outcome if you don't perform well. Getting "rewarded" with C-17s (that T-1 students were competing for) is not justified after going to multiple 89s.  

You know what, lets just take the guy at the bottom of his T-1 class and give him a fifth gen fighter.....

Sorry for the rant guys. 

Edited February 26, 2017 by innovator

[Thor]

2 minutes ago, innovator said:

 

Ulysses is correct. They were both non-recs.

Alright, I am gonna bitch. Despite what the bigwigs say, both of those 17s were taken from the T-1 pool of assignments. The outcome: those two T-38 students were "saved" from a bomber and in return two of the T-1 students that wanted C-17s got hosed.

Is this fair? I don't know. I will say that if you are going to play ball with the T-38s and want to compete for fighters, you must be ready to face the outcome if you don't perform well. Getting "rewarded" with C-17s (that T-1 students were competing for) is not justified after going to multiple 89s.  

Sorry for the rant guys. 

Is there essentially no way to fly bombers then? I was under the same impression as Ulysses - if you're non-rec'd in 38s you get a bomber.  I know bombers are supposed to drop from tones now, but the DLF buff (I know the guy) is a mil-mil to a buff CSO. 

What do guys do who want bombers?

[Bowser36]

19 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

Furthermore, if guys are sucking in 38s and can't get a bomber drop, is there a chance of being recycled back into Tones or something, or does that just cause too much administrative difficulty/backup in the next class? If they're gonna be stealing a heavy from a T-1 student then it only seems fair that they then compete against those T-1 students.  

But that's assuming "fairness."

Life is not fair. In the Air Force, timing is everything. This is true well beyond UPT. Do the best you can and the rest is out of your hands. With the drops that are coming down now, if you do well in whatever track, you'll get what you want.

UPT assignments were much worse even just a few years ago (see 2008-2009 timeframe). I'm sure the guys from the 90's who did tours as a non-rated officer before UPT slots opened up could tell stories of how it was even worse...

[matmacwc]

Do better in T-6's, questions?

[faipmafiaofficial]

The worst fighter pilot is better than the best heavy pilot. Duh

[Duck]

The Air Force will disappoint you. Consistently. Get used to it now.


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[HossHarris]

2 hours ago, faipmafiaofficial said:

The worst fighter pilot is better than the best heavy pilot. Duh

A bit tongue-in-cheek perhaps, but there is a quality cut at track select. 

[nsplayr]

My wife and I call it "SMD," Standard Military Disappointment. Another deployment, SMD. Haven't been paid correctly, SMD. PCS to Cannon, SMD, etc.

You're allowed to be disappointed, but the sooner you acknowledge that this level of disappointment is standard and doesn't exist just to piss you off specifically, the better off you'll be.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

I forsee a bit more horse trading between the T-38 and T-1 side coming around.  Nothing says the T-1 Flt/CC can't trade for an assignment with the T-38 Flt/CC, you just can't give a fighter to a T-1 student.

[matmacwc]

54 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

i see this word fairness being thrown around...

F'ing SNAPS.

[ViperMan]

7 hours ago, innovator said:

Ulysses is correct. They were both non-recs.

Alright, I am gonna bitch. Despite what the bigwigs say, both of those 17s were taken from the T-1 pool of assignments. The outcome: those two T-38 students were "saved" from a bomber and in return two of the T-1 students that wanted C-17s got hosed.

Is this fair? I don't know. I will say that if you are going to play ball with the T-38s and want to compete for fighters, you must be ready to face the outcome if you don't perform well. Getting "rewarded" with C-17s (that T-1 students were competing for) is not justified after going to multiple 89s.  

You know what, lets just take the guy at the bottom of his T-1 class and give him a fifth gen fighter.....

Sorry for the rant guys. 

Yes. People who know a lot more than you made decisions that you don't like - it doesn't mean they're wrong. 38 studs are universally assignable, and those individuals who "stole" 17s likely out-competed the ones you think they "displaced" earlier in the program when they were "head to head" - i.e. when they were in T-6s.

7 hours ago, Ulysses said:

Furthermore, if guys are sucking in 38s and can't get a bomber drop, is there a chance of being recycled back into Tones or something, or does that just cause too much administrative difficulty/backup in the next class? If they're gonna be stealing a heavy from a T-1 student then it only seems fair that they then compete against those T-1 students.  

But that's assuming "fairness."

No. They either graduate and the above happens, or they wash out.

[Clark Griswold]

46 minutes ago, ViperMan said:

Yes. People who know a lot more than you made decisions that you don't like - it doesn't mean they're wrong. 38 studs are universally assignable, and those individuals who "stole" 17s likely out-competed the ones you think they "displaced" earlier in the program when they were "head to head" - i.e. when they were in T-6s.

No. They either graduate and the above happens, or they wash out.

Maybe not wrong but inconsistent and frankly hypocritical.  

SUPT is meant to be Specialized not Universal UPT.  I understand that needs of the AF drove the policy of 38 studs being universally assignable but that was based on an institutional need not a personal preference that was limited because of a career choice, i.e. the choice of these studs to track 38s and the likely assignments to follow from that personal choice.  

They ranked their track preferences and made their decisions.  Now, when those chickens come home to roost, good or bad, they must live with them.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Clark Griswold

[ViperMan]

16 minutes ago, Clark Griswold said:

Maybe not wrong but inconsistent and frankly hypocritical.  

SUPT is meant to be Specialized not Universal UPT.  I understand that needs of the AF drove the policy of 38 studs being universally assignable but that was based on an institutional need not a personal preference that was limited because of a career choice, i.e. the choice of these studs to track 38s and the likely assignments to follow from that personal choice.  

They ranked their track preferences and made their decisions.  Now, when those chickens come home to roost, good or bad, they must live with them.

Well, lets just say we disagree. 38 studs have always been universally assignable - ever since the days of UPT, when T-38 studs went on to fly C-141s, OV-10s, etc.

SUPT was implemented to save the Air Force money and to prolong the life of the T-38. Not to give T-1 students "dibs" on certain platforms. T-38 studs did rack their preferences, as did I years ago, knowing that I could always go fly something "heavy" later in life if I wanted to do so. Choosing to go fly 38s doesn't close any doors - choosing to fly T-1s does.

[Fuzz]

19 minutes ago, ViperMan said:

Well, lets just say we disagree. 38 studs have always been universally assignable - ever since the days of UPT, when T-38 studs went on to fly C-141s, OV-10s, etc.

SUPT was implemented to save the Air Force money and to prolong the life of the T-38. Not to give T-1 students "dibs" on certain platforms. T-38 studs did rack their preferences, as did I years ago, knowing that I could always go fly something "heavy" later in life if I wanted to do so. Choosing to go fly 38s doesn't close any doors - choosing to fly T-1s does.

All consideration for Flt/CC horse trades for assignments aside, your statement that they made the cut so are better assumes that the top 7-8 of every class tracks T-6s. While the statistical likelihood is weighted heavily in that assumption it is not the 100% case (reference several pages back about having to non-vol people to 38s). Just becuase Lt Snuffy went 38s doesn't mean he was the top of his overall class since there is a still some student choice in the matter.