Track Selects and Assignment Nights

[pawnman]

On 9/23/2016 at 6:49 PM, Razor666 said:

So correct me if I am completely throwing out chaff and flares here as I only went to UPT at a place with 38s only but from what I have been told and discussed in the squadron is that studs that fly T-1s (nowadays at least) usually pick their top choices based off location and lifestyle. That being said, all bomber locations are pretty heinous (Minot, Dyess, Shreveport, Whiteman, etc). While the missions are cool as in you wipe bad guys off the face of the map, you never even land in or see the world really (C17 bros snapchat me drinking wine in Italy on a TDY while I'm sitting in the Deid). Therefore, your top T1 dudes put heavy platforms that are in sweet locations and land at even sweeter locations. Now if this is true and that you give your top studs what they want, then you give the bottom part of T1 guys the bombers (this is what they are doing with UAVs to T1 studs). As Pawnman mentioned before, the results are mixed. Can these bottom graduation dudes in T1 somehow learn to have great hands in these jets and push it up? Possibly. Or is it more likely that they get stuck in a jet they don't want, in a place they don't want, in a mission they don't want and all of this for a guaranteed commitment of ten years. You make pretty bitter people doing that which is dangerous in its own way. You cannot have the latter flying these planes because you need to have an aggressive 38 like attitude to fly through a SAM MEZ knowing that you will get shot at and you will most likely get hit (no one is out maneuvering a SAM at 2.0 G), but need to drop bombs on target on time.  

 

This was the problem currently going in my community until recently. We had older pilots that flew the T1 that showed a lackluster performance in these jets. The thinking then was we need to get dudes that we not the bottom of the barrel to revitalize the squadrons especially since we are seeing combat. Hence now why the last 2 years we have been getting T38 studs in the FTU that got bombers as a must assign who were very capable of going to something with a pointy nose. 

On the plus side, you get to spend time at home.  Your C-17 bros may indeed be having fun in Italy, Germany, Spain, wherever...but they're also on the road 200+ days a year.  If you think six month deployments are rough on the family, try being gone more often than you are home.  

Abilene, Rapid City, and Shreveport are not as bad as you make them out to be.  There's also the Guam trips with stops in S. Korea, Japan, and Australia now that B-1s are part of Global Strike.  

[carminsandiego]

28 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Well damn, and here I was a few months ago, scared shitless because I thought they'd only drop one or two 38s per class. I'm feeling pretty good about myself now.

 

Wouldn't get too comfortable- it's only a matter of time before the pendulum shifts the other way again (and yes, it can happen that quickly- AF knee jerk reaction)

[Danger41]

7 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

Well damn, and here I was a few months ago, scared shitless because I thought they'd only drop one or two 38s per class. I'm feeling pretty good about myself now.

 

Keep up the min run attitude and see how well that works in your flying career.

[Danger41]

So my initial response was to type, "eat shit, cadet", but since I was given a direct order to "expound", I will do that.

When you say something along the lines of "I was worried there was only 1 T-38 but now there's probably 6, I don't have to worry!" it indicates a couple of things. That you are already planning the path of least resistance and you haven't even commissioned yet. Secondly, you think highly enough of yourself that you're going to be able to coast into a T-38 and then go off to slip the surly bonds in whatever you put at the top of your dream sheet.

Point #1 - Things change, and by the time you go through UPT they may be in a mobility pilot shortage and now you're destined for AMC.  Not likely, but who knows. The only thing you can control is how hard you study, prepare, learn, and help your bros. There are other variables that are totally out of your control that will have a large effect on your assignment. But if you're already looking forward to taking the easy route, you'll find yourself left out of the party.

Point #2 - How many people in your ROTC det got UPT slots?  I guarantee it wasn't 100%.  It's the same for all sources.  There were plenty of people that wanted slots who didn't get them. People that get to UPT are not the type of people that fall ass backwards into it. They're usually types that have been good at everything they've ever done and are used to success.  The rub of it is that most of those people are not naturally gifted towards aviation, but they have developed a work ethic that will get them to be good aviators. Good luck earning a higher desired assignment than those people.

Please rebut my points and anything else I've written because it's been awhile since a Cadet came here and went full retard. 

[Clark Griswold]

On September 23, 2016 at 7:49 PM, Razor666 said:

So correct me if I am completely throwing out chaff and flares here as I only went to UPT at a place with 38s only but from what I have been told and discussed in the squadron is that studs that fly T-1s (nowadays at least) usually pick their top choices based off location and lifestyle. That being said, all bomber locations are pretty heinous (Minot, Dyess, Shreveport, Whiteman, etc). While the missions are cool as in you wipe bad guys off the face of the map, you never even land in or see the world really (C17 bros snapchat me drinking wine in Italy on a TDY while I'm sitting in the Deid). Therefore, your top T1 dudes put heavy platforms that are in sweet locations and land at even sweeter locations. Now if this is true and that you give your top studs what they want, then you give the bottom part of T1 guys the bombers (this is what they are doing with UAVs to T1 studs). As Pawnman mentioned before, the results are mixed. Can these bottom graduation dudes in T1 somehow learn to have great hands in these jets and push it up? Possibly. Or is it more likely that they get stuck in a jet they don't want, in a place they don't want, in a mission they don't want and all of this for a guaranteed commitment of ten years. You make pretty bitter people doing that which is dangerous in its own way. You cannot have the latter flying these planes because you need to have an aggressive 38 like attitude to fly through a SAM MEZ knowing that you will get shot at and you will most likely get hit (no one is out maneuvering a SAM at 2.0 G), but need to drop bombs on target on time.  

This was the problem currently going in my community until recently. We had older pilots that flew the T1 that showed a lackluster performance in these jets. The thinking then was we need to get dudes that we not the bottom of the barrel to revitalize the squadrons especially since we are seeing combat. Hence now why the last 2 years we have been getting T38 studs in the FTU that got bombers as a must assign who were very capable of going to something with a pointy nose. 

So I read I read your post and (and a few others) that seem to throw heavy guys who tracked T-1 maybe not under the bus but definitely into oncoming traffic, at first I was pissed (not that it matters) but after gonking a bit I realized it is just a reiteration of a theme I have heard before in muted tones, that we are basically inferior as pilots and I will assume that attitude carries over to us as officers as by your anecdotes we're lazy barely trainable retards.  I wish to dispel you of that idea.

I'm not going to get into a dick measuring contest with you on quals, instructor/evaluator time, chief of shop(s), FTU cadre, air medals (single events or cumulative), times shot at, times actually in danger or all the other shit that goes into a military flying career over multiple operations, AORs and other missions but sufficient to say when I look back at mine and other "fatty" pilots (actually I like that) the idea that we are stupid, lazy ignoramuses is complete bullshit that needs to stop.  

I realize that the power of that intellectual statement is overwhelming so I will expound...

1- We tracked T-1 because that is how the order of merit at Track Select placed us and some deliberately chose T-1s.  Not me, I wanted to 38s but I didn't place high enough so I gratefully took my T-1, worked hard, enjoyed it and look back with pride on what I accomplished.  

Sometimes when you have a group of really strong, fast runners the difference between first and last is actually not that much, it is just that in that competitive a race, the 0.1 seconds make the difference, it is not that number 3 or 4 are slow or weak it is just that the race was that competitive.

2 - We worked hard in T-1s and accomplished a difficult syllabus that was not spoon fed to us and we were expected to perform, held to high standards and had the motivation to perform well as we all wanted as you said "pick their top choices based off location and lifestyle".  If by our T-1 order of merit we were higher ranking, then we got to pick a better assignment, I can only speak for my class and the others I had friends in but no one slowed down because no one wanted to get stuck somewhere they didn't want to be doing something they didn't want to do.  That was going to happen to somebody as there are a finite number of the "dream jobs" but everyone I knew worked hard to have the most control over there own fate, we would have greatly have appreciated having a lazy turd in our class to be a target for a less than desirable assignment but alas we all worked hard and hence kept all of our class working hard.

They were not allowing T-1s to track bombers when I was going thru (2000 timeframe) but had they been allowing it, I would have worked my ass off for it.  I worked hard, didn't get my first choice but not my last either.  I look back and realize my job was not glamorous but important to do well, didn't expect a backslapping recognition for doing it as best I could and moved on.  

If your community (I assume B-1s) didn't get product they were completely happy with don't stereotype us all.  It could have been supplied thru a poor selection process, thru a selection process deliberately fed misfit toys to get rid of them or just not taken seriously by the releasing command(s).

3 - We fly aircraft that take airmanship, intelligence and a strong work ethic to learn to operate, manage the missions, lead the crew, support the team and roll with the punches when things go south.  

This is recognized and why several friends of mine (all T-1 tracked, heavy drivers) have gone on to fly U-2s, attend TPS, flown for the 89th, exchange tours and the like.    

Yours truly is a mediocre officer and I rate myself average yoke operator but I was cut from the same training cloth as those other heavy guys who have done more than me, the example of what they have done should give people pause before they have someone all figured out.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Clark Griswold
minor

[Thor]

1 hour ago, Danger41 said:

The only thing you can control is how hard you study, prepare, learn, and help your bros. There are other variables that are totally out of your control that will have a large effect on your assignment. But if you're already looking forward to taking the easy route, you'll find yourself left out of the party.

I'm not sure that he was meaning that he's going to just coast through and track 38s because more are being dropped (though I can see where there's room for misinterpretation).  I think what he's saying is that the odds are better and he's happy about that.  Honestly, anyone would be if they saw 38 drops jump from 2 to 8(ish).  Either way, you offer great advice to future pilots like us and we definitely appreciate it!

Edited September 26, 2016 by Thor

[WTFAF]

^^^^That's called quibbling. Start taking notes snap.

[Boomer6]

55 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

words..

Dude, never pass up the opportunity. Trust me, the sooner you learn this the better life will be.

[Disco_Nav963]

On 9/22/2016 at 9:14 PM, magnetfreezer said:

Finally, ACC uses failure to improve yourself and others in the debrief. AMC and AFGSC use it to generate Q-3s and FEBs. 

Hasn't been my experience in AFGSC... Then again, I've spent 5 years at Minot. Skipped the dark times at KBAD. YMMV.

[pawnman]

7 hours ago, Disco_Nav963 said:

Hasn't been my experience in AFGSC... Then again, I've spent 5 years at Minot. Skipped the dark times at KBAD. YMMV.

We had a long chat with a missileer looking to improve their OGV process, and he was saying that the evaluators don't even pull the shift with the missileers.  The lead guy being evaluated just puts together a debrief and presents it after the fact.  And the debrief itself isn't an evaluatable item.

[Ram]

We had a long chat with a missileer looking to improve their OGV process, and he was saying that the evaluators don't even pull the shift with the missileers.  The lead guy being evaluated just puts together a debrief and presents it after the fact.  And the debrief itself isn't an evaluatable item.

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[SurelySerious]

Hasn't been my experience in AFGSC... Then again, I've spent 5 years at Minot. Skipped the dark times at KBAD. YMMV.

^Within the last two years.

[norskman]

On September 23, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Razor666 said:

You cannot have the latter flying these planes because you need to have an aggressive 38 like attitude to fly through a SAM MEZ knowing that you will get shot at and you will most likely get hit (no one is out maneuvering a SAM at 2.0 G), but need to drop bombs on target on time.  

 

Slow your roll. Tracking 38s in UPT doesn't give you automatic tactical credibility. You begin to learn the necessary skills and attitude in your first ops unit as a young pup picking the brains of the old dudes whenever you can. 

[pcola]

^^^^That's called quibbling. Start taking notes snap.

It's ok. Quibbling is the god-given right of all millennials, haven't you heard?


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[Lord Ratner]

Pilot training was easy. You'll do fine

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[Bode]

Pilot training was easy. You'll do fine

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Of course it is. Just watched a guy sleep through classes and pass. (Syl dev'd himself doing it) but he's off to fly F-22sand he was in the bottom third of his class. (family connection in the guard).


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[WTFAF]

i'lll say it for Danger41 shut the f*ck up cadet
 
expound lol what a gay

Takes one to know one.

[12xu2a3x3]

very much looking forward to being in UPT as a 31 y/o prior e with this extremely humble generation

[Sketch]

As someone who did exactly what you are doing right now, and rightfully got pounded for it, take what these guys are saying and go with it. Arguing with Danger makes it look like you're going to do the same thing with your instructors at UPT.. see how that goes for you. You say you're passionate about getting a fighter, great, let it show through your work ethic.

[lazlo]

2 hours ago, 12xu2a3x3 said:

very much looking forward to being in UPT as a 31 y/o prior e with this extremely humble generation

Good luck. It was an interesting experience for me...

(I was late-rated/old, not prior e)

[FishBowl]

2 hours ago, 12xu2a3x3 said:

very much looking forward to being in UPT as a 31 y/o prior e with this extremely humble generation

My class starts next week and I'm 28, but will be 30 at graduation. I'm also a prior-E so this should be interesting. I'm stoked nonetheless. 

[tac airlifter]

On 9/25/2016 at 10:28 PM, Ulysses said:

With all due respect

 

[spaceman]

Right now, however, my IFT/UPT dates are probably gonna be in FY17

Well no shit dude FY 17 is in four days

[war007afa]

What the fuck is going on here these days? 

Does BODN need a goddamn "safe space"?!

SNAPs: less mouth, more ear. If you have time to quibble and bitch on here, you have time to be in the vault or the -1. 

Hopefuls: timing, skill, work ethic, luck.. Control what you can control; enjoy the ride when the cards are dealt. 

[WishfulPlinking]

Yes...

CMB 17-08 Track

1 T-38 (Saudi)

7 T-38

11 T-1

2 Helo