Track Selects and Assignment Nights

[Duck]

I'm sure the blue talking point will be somewhere along the line of, "We need good dudes in every community."  This is true, but if he was such a good dude, there is a skeleton there somewhere not many know about, thats usually how it works.

Not sure about this particular guy but "We need good dudes in every community." has been the prevailing excuse from the 3 Star. One of the WG/CVs called up and asked why so many bombers for FAIPs if we are so short of 11Fs and every student with a pulse is getting a Viper.

It's better to know when your younger how fvcked up AF people management is rather than after you've invested considerable time.

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[YoungnDumb]

T-6 END FAIP-

x1 F-35 (old news)

x1 F-15C

x4 F-16

x1 B-2

x1 KC-135 MacDill

x1 C-17 Charleston

x1 C-146 Duke Field

T-1 END FAIP

x2 B-52

x1 EC-130

x1 C-17 Hickam

x1 E-3 Germany

Missing a couple more from the T-1 side

Edited October 28, 2016 by YoungnDumb
Forgot one

[Uncle]

@YoungnDumb How many were in your class total and how many listed fighters at the top of their dream sheet?  I am at OTS right now RNLTD 7 Dec to Vance, trying to guage my chances of drop that vippppppppppperrrrrrr

[Boomer6]

22 hours ago, matmacwc said:

I'm sure the blue talking point will be somewhere along the line of, "We need good dudes in every community."  This is true, but if he was such a good dude, there is a skeleton there somewhere not many know about, thats usually how it works.

No skeletons. If that were the case i could understand it. 

[matmacwc]

Even back to pilot training class, yes, I've seen it go that far.

[Boomer6]

Multiple current IPs, including those who flew with him as a student, went to bat for him. 

 

[ViperStud]

On October 26, 2016 at 6:18 PM, carminsandiego said:

any rumors/explanations on why he got the shaft?   This doesn't sound like "luck of the draw"

I was an IP there not too long ago. The SQ/CC is a PC, uber-religious SASS grad with zero credibility in the jet and squadron. Said FAIP was a great dude with an old-school fighter pilot mentality. PC principal had an opportunity to screw over something he sees as bad for the new-age AF and acted on it. 

Need proof?  My first interaction with this CC was immediately after returning from Afghanistan. He showed up while I was deployed for a brief stint as DO. I sat down across a desk from him and he said two words, then paused, reached across the table, fondled my zipper and sat back down. Before he continued he said "sorry that was too low had to fix it, where were we?"  It's like he read the handbook on how to lose credibility in a flying squadron in the shortest amount of time and followed it diligently. Doesn't help that he's a clown in the airplane after all the exec, school and staff time. Too bad there is no recourse for shit leadership. 

Edited October 28, 2016 by ViperStud

[Ram]

Yeah there is, it's called an 11F shortage.


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[Boomer6]

36 minutes ago, ViperStud said:

I was an IP there not too long ago. The SQ/CC is a PC, uber-religious SASS grad with zero credibility in the jet and squadron. Said FAIP was a great dude with an old-school fighter pilot mentality. PC principal had an opportunity to screw over something he sees as bad for the new-age AF and acted on it. 

Need proof?  My first interaction with this CC was immediately after returning from Afghanistan. He showed up while I was deployed for a brief stint as DO. I sat down across a desk from him and he said two words, then paused, reached across the table, fondled my zipper and sat back down. Before he continued he said "sorry that was too low had to fix it, where were we?"  It's like he read the handbook on how to lose credibility in a flying squadron in the shortest amount of time and followed it diligently. Doesn't help that he's a clown in the airplane after all the exec, school and staff time. Too bad there is no recourse for shit leadership. 

God bless you.

[BashiChuni]

54 minutes ago, ViperStud said:

I was an IP there not too long ago. The SQ/CC is a PC, uber-religious SASS grad with zero credibility in the jet and squadron. Said FAIP was a great dude with an old-school fighter pilot mentality. PC principal had an opportunity to screw over something he sees as bad for the new-age AF and acted on it. 

Need proof?  My first interaction with this CC was immediately after returning from Afghanistan. He showed up while I was deployed for a brief stint as DO. I sat down across a desk from him and he said two words, then paused, reached across the table, fondled my zipper and sat back down. Before he continued he said "sorry that was too low had to fix it, where were we?"  It's like he read the handbook on how to lose credibility in a flying squadron in the shortest amount of time and followed it diligently. Doesn't help that he's a clown in the airplane after all the exec, school and staff time. Too bad there is no recourse for shit leadership. 

but but but he's a SASS grad!!!

[di1630]

Curious, what is his former airframe?


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[ViperStud]

19 minutes ago, di1630 said:

Curious, what is his former airframe?


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Technically the viper, but to his credit he didn't even really claim it because it was only one assignment.  One of his only conversations with me where I had to give him some credit. From what I recall, his assignments: FAIP, one Viper tour, aide-de-camp, school, nerd school, staff, then to Vance for touch-and-go as DO and his command. There was a late rate thrown in there for either post-USAFA (surprise) masters or something. That timeline reflects everything that is wrong with how we groom leaders: no operational experience, never credible in an MWS, several non-CAF/MAF assignments; he's basically a career ball-washer. 

Take a dude like that, thrust him into a flying command and its no surprise when he self-induces a dual compressor stall going out the top of the airspace and almost loses one of the jets. Complete shitshow. 

[Chuck17]

1 hour ago, ViperStud said:

Technically the viper, but to his credit he didn't even really claim it because it was only one assignment.  One of his only conversations with me where I had to give him some credit. From what I recall, his assignments: FAIP, one Viper tour, aide-de-camp, school, nerd school, staff, then to Vance for touch-and-go as DO and his command. There was a late rate thrown in there for either post-USAFA (surprise) masters or something. That timeline reflects everything that is wrong with how we groom leaders: no operational experience, never credible in an MWS, several non-CAF/MAF assignments; he's basically a career ball-washer. 

Take a dude like that, thrust him into a flying command and its no surprise when he self-induces a dual compressor stall going out the top of the airspace and almost loses one of the jets. Complete shitshow. 

A booger-eater turned commander lacking OPERATIONAL credibility..? Say it ain't so! 

Chuck

 

[Boomer6]

3 hours ago, ViperStud said:

Technically the viper, but to his credit he didn't even really claim it because it was only one assignment.  One of his only conversations with me where I had to give him some credit. From what I recall, his assignments: FAIP, one Viper tour, aide-de-camp, school, nerd school, staff, then to Vance for touch-and-go as DO and his command. There was a late rate thrown in there for either post-USAFA (surprise) masters or something. That timeline reflects everything that is wrong with how we groom leaders: no operational experience, never credible in an MWS, several non-CAF/MAF assignments; he's basically a career ball-washer. 

Take a dude like that, thrust him into a flying command and its no surprise when he self-induces a dual compressor stall going out the top of the airspace and almost loses one of the jets. Complete shitshow. 

He wasn't a FAIP, and there was an IFF tour in there somewhere, but the rest is spot on.

[Larry Sellers]

29 minutes ago, Boomer6 said:

He wasn't a FAIP, and there was an IFF tour in there somewhere, but the rest is spot on.

 

3 hours ago, ViperStud said:

Technically the viper, but to his credit he didn't even really claim it because it was only one assignment.  One of his only conversations with me where I had to give him some credit. From what I recall, his assignments: FAIP, one Viper tour, aide-de-camp, school, nerd school, staff, then to Vance for touch-and-go as DO and his command. There was a late rate thrown in there for either post-USAFA (surprise) masters or something. That timeline reflects everything that is wrong with how we groom leaders: no operational experience, never credible in an MWS, several non-CAF/MAF assignments; he's basically a career ball-washer. 

Take a dude like that, thrust him into a flying command and its no surprise when he self-induces a dual compressor stall going out the top of the airspace and almost loses one of the jets. Complete shitshow. 

Yep, and let's not forget overspeeding the flaps solo.  I can understand the buffoonery as everyone has made a stupid mistake or two in the jet, however if a FAIP or other new guy did the same it was treated quite differently.  

Unfortunately for FAIPs, commanders have ultimate control and discretion over the assignment process and can use whatever metric/opinion to rack and stack.  The bad ones tend to reward the wrong things and take care of dudes who align well with their own values while others who don't sometimes get the shaft, regardless of job performance.

[ViperStud]

54 minutes ago, Boomer6 said:

'M He wasn't a FAIP, and there was an IFF tour in there somewhere, but the rest is spot on.

Must have been one Viper tour, IFF, aide-de-camp, school, nerd school, staff, then to Vance for touch-and-go as DO and his command.  Based on his age in the community his ops tour was only an RCH before mine. The top 50-75% on he VMLs were staying in the jet. Didn't do well in the viper world but found someone to latch onto and paved a way for himself regardless. 

I'm more sympathetic to the overspeeds and his vast collection of overrun landings. The dual compressor stall was the true display of negative airmanship. Never should have continued the mnvr to begin with, but heading out the top of the MOA in a -38 (with all we know about those engines) and thinking the right thing to do at high AOA is to rip the throttles to idle and yank back on the stick, thus spiking AOA with those laughably small/blunt intakes?  Think about it, that dude gives people checkrides.

[Azimuth]

Wanna scare the career ball washers and cake eaters? Spread a rumor that FEF's will now be part of the PRF's...

Edited October 28, 2016 by Azimuth

[Muscle2002]

14 hours ago, ViperStud said:

Technically the viper, but to his credit he didn't even really claim it because it was only one assignment.  One of his only conversations with me where I had to give him some credit. From what I recall, his assignments: FAIP, one Viper tour, aide-de-camp, school, nerd school, staff, then to Vance for touch-and-go as DO and his command. There was a late rate thrown in there for either post-USAFA (surprise) masters or something. That timeline reflects everything that is wrong with how we groom leaders: no operational experience, never credible in an MWS, several non-CAF/MAF assignments; he's basically a career ball-washer. 

Take a dude like that, thrust him into a flying command and its no surprise when he self-induces a dual compressor stall going out the top of the airspace and almost loses one of the jets. Complete shitshow. 

3

Not to sidetrack:  SAASS is a school for nerds, but it was probably the best year I've had in the AF.  That's because of the people in my class, the faculty, the curriculum, and not least importantly, SAASS (ahem, super nerd school) provided a chance to throttle back after flying for the previous 13 years.

 

Still a sidetrack, but related: The Dutch student in the junior class at TPS did exactly what you noted: he scoffed at the "Black Striped Region" and tried to loop in the upper-20s to low 30s.  And like others have noted, apparently if you're a foreigner, or in the case you mentioned, a dude in leadership, mistakes seem to be quietly swept away from the light of public knowledge.

[Muscle2002]

2 hours ago, Azimuth said:

Wanna scare the career ball washers and cake eaters? Spread a rumor that FEF's will now be part of the PRF's...

It would probably have some affect, but it depends on the flying community, right?  From what I've heard from MAF friends, even the best pilots have slightly bloodied FEFs whereas, in the CAF, one has to try to get anything worse than a Q1 with a discrepancy or two.

[YoungnDumb]

On 10/27/2016 at 0:14 PM, Uncle said:

@YoungnDumb How many were in your class total and how many listed fighters at the top of their dream sheet?  I am at OTS right now RNLTD 7 Dec to Vance, trying to guage my chances of drop that vippppppppppperrrrrrr

This was the FAIP drop so completely unrelated to the student drop.  Assuming you will start UPT in December/January and you'll graduate a year or so from there.  While the current drops are pretty favorable for studs seeking fighters, nothing to say in a year from now AFPC completely goes the other direction and doesn't drop anything.  

[Danger41]

So here's a good example of an assignment being what you make it. If this dude is really an "old school fighter pilot mentality", he will be pumped that he gets to fly a jet that is taking it to ISIL right now and has arguably the most badass history of any jet in the Air Force. Or he can hold onto the mindset that his jabroni commander screwed him over because he was too much of a badass faip for this guy to handle. 

My best friend from upt was a T-6 faip that got Buffs and he is a total bro. He is also just a space to fill on a spreadsheet, just like me.

[di1630]

So here's a good example of an assignment being what you make it. If this dude is really an "old school fighter pilot mentality", he will be pumped that he gets to fly a jet that is taking it to ISIL right now and has arguably the most badass history of any jet in the Air Force. Or he can hold onto the mindset that his jabroni commander screwed him over because he was too much of a badass faip for this guy to handle. 
My best friend from upt was a T-6 faip that got Buffs and he is a total bro. He is also just a space to fill on a spreadsheet, just like me.

Yeah but c'mon, it's still a kick in the junk to have your fighter dreams ruined if you had a legit qual, the AF needed fighter pilots and you got screwed.

Chances are he will always be a bit bitter.


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[BFM this]

8 minutes ago, di1630 said:

Yeah but c'mon, it's still a kick in the junk to have your fighter dreams ruined if you had a legit qual, the AF needed fighter pilots and you got screwed.

Chances are he will always be a bit bitter.


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I don't know.  The first batch of UPT-dct-RPAs shook it off, and thrived both in the suck, and their follow-on's for the most part.  

[Sprkt69]

You have not been handed the short straw enough times then.

One can only be kicked in the balls by Big Blue so many times before you say "F it"

How are those TAMI 21 dudes who changed their AFSC at the request of leadership doing? It's all about timing and luck to succeed in today's AF.

[billy pilgrim]

7 hours ago, Sprkt69 said:

How are those TAMI 21 dudes who changed their AFSC at the request of leadership doing? It's all about timing and luck to succeed in today's AF.

Watching several guys in my squadron get tapped with TAMI 21, I second this.. (Made a conscious decision at that time never to let my ADSC get extended bast my UPT one).  Gross mismanagement of personnel is the root cause of this retention problem that the AF is experiencing.

Don't want to derail this thread though - hitting your first ops unit after 2+ years of training is an unforgettably awesome experience.