sqwatch Posted July 5, 2017 Posted July 5, 2017 alot of folks feel the AMC heavy life is superior...Pay, lifestyle, hours, world travel, civilian opportunities down the road... it's all better if you fly heaviesWrong Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 3
ViperStud Posted July 5, 2017 Posted July 5, 2017 8 hours ago, pawnman said: Counter point, there's a reason fighters have the worst shortage of pilots despite having the largest bonus. This is an ignorant statement. The bonus is irrelevant. It's not big enough to change minds regardless of airframe, duration or current $$ involved. Did anyone imagine that closing multiple FTU squadrons would have 2nd/3rd order effects when they did so in 2009/10? No, because it was all driven by politics and no one was looking at what the AF actually needed. We went through a period where training at Luke was so backed up punks were waiting 12+ months post-UPT for their FTU, so fighters stopped dropping. There was nowhere to train them. Those of us who were CGOs back then laughed at what would happen in a few years; SQ/CCs shrugged and senior leaders drank their Kool-Aid, ignoring anyone who said the sky is falling. This is a failure of leadership, not an issue with "fighters" chasing people out the door. The AF has a culture problem in general, not just in fighters. 3
dream big Posted July 5, 2017 Posted July 5, 2017 17 hours ago, BashiChuni said: "boo hoo all i got was a viper" Ain't that the truth, I would have killed for a Viper going through UPT, but there was maybe one fighter per class. Man how times have changed...
Guest Posted July 5, 2017 Posted July 5, 2017 10 hours ago, bb17 said: What ever happened to those pilots anyway? Single-mission Air Medal for a practical demonstration of the short-field capabilities of the C-17
pilotguy Posted July 6, 2017 Posted July 6, 2017 18 hours ago, sqwatch said: Wrong Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Which part?
sqwatch Posted July 6, 2017 Posted July 6, 2017 Which part?All of itSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Duck Posted July 6, 2017 Posted July 6, 2017 Simmer down now fellas. Seems like once a month everyone gets all keyboard warrior and starts measuring manhood. There are positives in most communities, no one has the market cornered for coolest job in the Air Force and UPT studs don't know what they want.Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums 2
YoungnDumb Posted July 6, 2017 Posted July 6, 2017 On 7/4/2017 at 3:59 PM, pilotguy said: alot of folks feel the AMC heavy life is superior...Pay, lifestyle, hours, world travel, civilian opportunities down the road... it's all better if you fly heavies Goldfein just laid out the typical fighter tour at Shaw...ya right now heavy life is way way better than that... Fair enough, I was more driving at the fact that the studs don't get a fair view of a fighter/bomber lifestyle all they get is one side of the story. 1
pilotguy Posted July 6, 2017 Posted July 6, 2017 8 hours ago, Duck said: Simmer down now fellas. Seems like once a month everyone gets all keyboard warrior and starts measuring manhood. There are positives in most communities, no one has the market cornered for coolest job in the Air Force and UPT studs don't know what they want. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums They are clueless I'll give you that. Haha
Sparkle Posted July 6, 2017 Posted July 6, 2017 On 7/5/2017 at 2:21 AM, ihtfp06 said: Single-mission Air Medal for a practical demonstration of the short-field capabilities of the C-17 One of them was my flt cc at usafa for a short time. He said they Q3'd the crew and they moved out of the 17. That was his last assignment before getting out and he now flys for the airlines.
rti35 Posted July 6, 2017 Posted July 6, 2017 Just out of curiosity - is it common/possible for guys to request to trade drops? In the above example, the guy that was upset about getting an F-16; could he have found another T-38 stud and traded assignments with him if they wanted each others airframe? On the surface it seems like it would make sense so that everybody's happy but I'm sure there's more to it than that
Guest Posted July 6, 2017 Posted July 6, 2017 One of them was my flt cc at usafa for a short time. He said they Q3'd the crew and they moved out of the 17. That was his last assignment before getting out and he now flys for the airlines. The AMC special. I know only one one guy in the -17 who Q3'd without getting pushed out of the community. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Danger41 Posted July 6, 2017 Posted July 6, 2017 1 hour ago, rti35 said: Just out of curiosity - is it common/possible for guys to request to trade drops? In the above example, the guy that was upset about getting an F-16; could he have found another T-38 stud and traded assignments with him if they wanted each others airframe? On the surface it seems like it would make sense so that everybody's happy but I'm sure there's more to it than that Fuck him and his "happiness". In other instances, I've seen swaps happen when studs are better fits AND are good dudes. However, that opens up Pandora's Box and people that can't get an assignment swapped have a legitimate gripe. 1
rti35 Posted July 6, 2017 Posted July 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, Danger41 said: him and his "happiness". In other instances, I've seen swaps happen when studs are better fits AND are good dudes. However, that opens up Pandora's Box and people that can't get an assignment swapped have a legitimate gripe. Thanks for the info. Of course I'm not planning on having to do it but it's good to know there's at least a slim possibility to swap assignments if it can be mutually beneficial.
BashiChuni Posted July 6, 2017 Posted July 6, 2017 2 hours ago, rti35 said: Just out of curiosity - is it common/possible for guys to request to trade drops? In the above example, the guy that was upset about getting an F-16; could he have found another T-38 stud and traded assignments with him if they wanted each others airframe? On the surface it seems like it would make sense so that everybody's happy but I'm sure there's more to it than that JFC...actually there is a "happiness" and "fairness" index built into each score so every SNAP stud gets what he wants and goes home a "winner" +1 to dangers post
HU&W Posted July 6, 2017 Posted July 6, 2017 I've always thought drop night would be more fun if they just put the list of planes for that class up on a board and call the studs up in rank order. #1 gets first pick, etc... Yes, someone will be last and their plane will be the only one left, and that's OK. 1
JustHangingOut Posted July 6, 2017 Posted July 6, 2017 5 minutes ago, HU&W said: I've always thought drop night would be more fun if they just put the list of planes for that class up on a board and call the studs up in rank order. #1 gets first pick, etc... Yes, someone will be last and their plane will be the only one left, and that's OK. This is how the Army does it. We find out the list of airframes right before selection. They bring each person up in OML order and sometimes even the very last guy wins too! Sometimes everyone wants apaches and all the Army has to offer that day is blackhawks....other days...everyone wants Chinooks and all they have is apaches... There are also two separate lists for selection. One for Officers and one for Warrant Officers.
Stoker Posted July 6, 2017 Posted July 6, 2017 11 minutes ago, HU&W said: I've always thought drop night would be more fun if they just put the list of planes for that class up on a board and call the studs up in rank order. #1 gets first pick, etc... Yes, someone will be last and their plane will be the only one left, and that's OK. That's how the Navy does ship assignments for new ensigns, at least those graduating from the Academy. There's definitely more variation going on there, though, since I think they pick down to the actual ship (so it becomes, "Well I want to be based here, but this ship has better promotion opportunities, this one I might command sooner, etc.").
cragspider Posted July 6, 2017 Posted July 6, 2017 21 minutes ago, HU&W said: I've always thought drop night would be more fun if they just put the list of planes for that class up on a board and call the studs up in rank order. #1 gets first pick, etc... Yes, someone will be last and their plane will be the only one left, and that's OK. That's how the AF did it back when Corpus was still open. Very fair imo. 2
rti35 Posted July 6, 2017 Posted July 6, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, BashiChuni said: JFC...actually there is a "happiness" and "fairness" index built into each score so every SNAP stud gets what he wants and goes home a "winner" +1 to dangers post I agree with the mentality that whatever you get is what you get and make the best of it. Everyone going into UPT thru Active Duty knows (or should know) the deal and how the drop process works, it's not a secret. I was just curious if the AF allowed swaps and if it was common. Edited July 6, 2017 by rti35
Danny Noonin Posted July 6, 2017 Posted July 6, 2017 I've always thought drop night would be more fun if they just put the list of planes for that class up on a board and call the studs up in rank order. #1 gets first pick, etc... Yes, someone will be last and their plane will be the only one left, and that's OK.That's how my drop was. Except we also had the other bases on a conference call. Order of bases rotated each drop. #1 from Vance would get up and pick e.g. I'll take line 5, F-15C to Tyndall," then someone at each location would cross that line off the transparency with a marker (list was displayed on an over-cranium projector. Then #1 from CBM would go, etc. Until the last guy at the last base got what was leftSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1
Kenny Powers Posted July 7, 2017 Posted July 7, 2017 You could also do it the way my SQ/CC handled our assignments back in the B Course:"Here's the assignments. You guys are grown men, figure out a fair way to pick who goes where. If I hear any arguing, you're all going to Korea."Good to be a Guard guy.Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk 4
Duck Posted July 7, 2017 Posted July 7, 2017 Probably unpopular opinion here, but here goes. In a typical UPT class there are the top sticks who are easily identifiable, the anchors or the class who again are easily identifiable by everyone (and they know who they are), and then there is the center of Mass (around 75-80%). These middle of the bell curve guys could end up flying fighters or end up in an AWACS or Tanker or whatever else. Having been a flight commander at UPT, it's tough watching those middle guys go up on assignment night knowing their dreams are about to be crushed and they have no idea. I wish we would be more transparent about the MASS and make it public. Post the list maybe once a week and definitely let the studs know before assignment night. If they know they are 15/20 (ENJJPT) then they know it may go either way. But #18 knows it's gonna take a miracle. Less heartbreak in public in front of 300+ people and strangers.Always thought it was ironic back in 09-11 when we dropped guys Preds and told them to act professionally while crushing them in public with no foreknowledge. Some may disagree, but coming from a class with a ton of Preds, it hurt to watch guys get blindsided like that.Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums 5
Thor Posted July 7, 2017 Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, PilotCandidate said: Just curious, do the guys/gals know beforehand what airframes (and how many) will be dropped on their assignment night? As you said, the top and bottom will generally have a feel for where they are so they can at least make educated guesses. Allowing the middle guys to know exactly how many of each airframe is available would help them judge with a higher degree of accuracy what airframe they may end up in. Pretty sure T-1 guys get to see "what's available" for drop night (airframe, location), but T-38 guys basically make a dream sheet. As far as how many of each option are available, I don't think that's stated. So it could say "C-17 Charleston, C-17 Dover, etc" but not how many 17s to Charleston or Dover. Edited July 7, 2017 by Thor
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