Tanker to Fighter

[Sneedro]

I know some have talked about a crossflow for bomber to fighter, but is there a crossflow for heavies to bomber/fighters??

[Guest KC10IPTravis]

There was such a thing in the "old" days..but now with the dual phase track of T-1 and T-38..the chance is pretty much impossible. Only real bet would be get to an airframe with T-38 ACE (B-2, U-2) and try from there..but again the chances are slim to none. Good luck and enjoy what you have!!

[Guest C-21 Pilot]

We have the chance as heavy folk to go to the UAV, B-2, or U-2. Talk on the street is that once you get that assignment/MAJCOM, you are pretty much stuck with it. If you try to transition from those three, you'll probably end up in a AWACS, J-STAR, or other ACC "heavy" airframe (non-bomber).

[Guest AirGuardian]

Guard units have conversions from platform to platform every once in awhile. Based on this, some have the opportunity to switch airframes a couple of times or more if they're lucky(not always good!)... Have seen a few guys transition from heavies to fighters, but this was strictly case by case and they(the ones I met) were strictly from the former T-37 to T-38 track back in the day before T-1s. Puerto Rico Guard went from C-130s to F-16s at one time, had a few issues and a mishap I will not mention - and now they are back in 130s... That was a unique circumstance, but the Guard is in the middle of this so-called "transformation" and the fighter units are being looked at for other possible roles in future platforms, not necessarily fighters if catch my drift!

[Guest Joe Dirt]

I was also curious about the heavy to fighter transfer. I have heard rumors of guys doing it (guys that went the T-1 track). For the Guard anyway...

I spoke with a CMSgt at in charge if hiring at a fighter unit and asked her what my odds were of getting picked up with them after i finish my current obligation (KC-135s). She said that they would take a look at me, but would have to send me through the T-38 portion of UPT.

Can anyone confirm this?

[Rocker]

I can't confirm that, but I've been wondering: WHAT IF someone went T-1s, did an ops assignment somewhere, and then applied for and got a special duty assignment to Beale for U-2s? They'd get T-38 qualed and fly it extensively for a few years when they're not flying the U-2. Then I wonder what it would take (as far as AETC and AFPC go) to go to IFF and a fighter FTU from there? Am I off base with this one?

[Guest Pogo]

Crossover to B-2 now requires fighter or bomber experience apparently, I know of someone who was on the last intake of non-offensive MWS people.

Most people who enter the U-2 program see that as being a highlight of their career and the interview boards you'll sit before will be sure to find thats the real truth.

[Hacker]

Originally posted by Rocker:

They'd get T-38 qualed and fly it extensively for a few years when they're not flying the U-2. Then I wonder what it would take (as far as AETC and AFPC go) to go to IFF and a fighter FTU from there?

This possibility was discussed a couple years ago at flightinfo.com, and I surprised to hear the answer from somebody who actually knew. As far as AFPC is concerned, they will only assign pilots who flew T-38s *in UPT* to fighter units.

I believe that is policy, and not regulation, that sets up that "rule".

The other piece of the puzzle is the physical existence of a fighter crossflow board to allow re-tracking from a non-fighter MWS to a fighter. The last fighter crossflow board was held in '98/99 time frame, after which the previous CSAF declared "there will be no more fighter crossflow boards."

So there will have to be more than one policy change to make the heavy/U-2/T-38/fighter career path a reality.

[Whitman]

While we're sort of on the topic.....is it hard to convert from fighter to heavy? What would it take? It seems like if you can fly the 38 and make it through fighters they wouldn't mind letting you cross train into a C-17 for the guard/reserves or even active.

[Bergman]

If you flew -38s at UPT, regardless of your follow-on A/C (fighter or bomber) you won't have any trouble moving to a heavy unit (flying wise, at least). The appropriate FTU is all that is required...9 to 12 weeks depending on airframe (9 for C-17, 10 for C-5, and 12.5 for KC-135s. Don't know how long the process is for KC-10s or other heavies, but probably similar).

[Guest rumblefish_2]

We just had a C-130 dude go thru IFF here at Sheppard to fly fighters in the Guard, so it is possible. Dude had only like 15 T-38 rides at Randolph before being expected to fly tactical in IFF. I sandbagged against him once, and he didn't do too badly. He finished, so I guess he was good enough...

On kind of a side note, I was at the 'fuge with a major who was a marine Cobra pilot and then got hired by an A-10 Guard unit. He did a watered down T-37 phase and then did 38s. Bottom line, if you know the right people and/or are in the right place at the right time, I think anything is possible...

[Saluki]

rumblefish_2 is right on. I'm currently at A-10 RTU with both those dudes he spoke of. The C-130 guy is pretty amazing having went through T-44's for 130's, getting over 2,200 hours in that airplane, then learning to fly a 38 in 15 flights and pass IFF! Same with my Cobra Marine bro. I know the 130 guy just worked with Willa Grove and kept showing up there and he finally got hired. These dudes are not typical though. Both had extensive airmanship with LOTS of combat time. Don't laugh at the 130 dude cause I know from many conversations that he has seen more combat than I thought possible from a 130. Just really wanted to chim in since I know both those dudes. rumblefish_2, don't piss of Acid up there at SPS and tell Roche hello down in stan eval for me!

[Guest STLCFII]

How often do U2 pilots actually fly the U2? I read that they fly the T38 a lot to stay current so does that mean they only fly the U2 like a couple times a month? Also, how many hours do they actually fly the T38 and what do they do when they do? Is it just like flying around for fun practicing your maneuvers/landing or is it mission oriented? What type of avionics does the U2 have? I heard it's got stuff from the 60s, but I saw a pic in a "Black Jets" book and it shows one with an all glass cockpit. How hard is it to get into the U2? Last thing, If someone does go U2 and gets all the T38 time, would ANG Fighter Units consider hiring him/her? I'd think since they have a different way of doing things it might be possible. Kinda like that C130 guy. Any info would be interesting! Thanks!

[ 06. August 2004, 22:45: Message edited by: STLCFII ]

[Bergman]

Have a look at this discussion:

https://www.dynamictruth.com/cgi-bin/ultima...t=000635#000001

The requirements for U-2 pilots are in there, as well as some other info.

As for getting hired by an ANG unit to fly fighters after having flown -38s, it can be done. We had a few people who flew -38s at UPT then went to heavies, then flew -16s for us. There are a combination of factors to think about...A) did you fly -38s? B) How old are you? C) How high ranking are you (junior Capt vs. Major could make a big difference)

The bottom line is that the unit will have to decide what they are willing to accept. If they hire a non-fighter person, they are going to be gone nearly 6 months for RTU, if not longer. It's almost better to send someone to UPT...at least then you get a young 2/1Lt with lots of ADSC remaining...

[Hacker]

Originally posted by Saluki:

rumblefish_2 is right on. I'm currently at A-10 RTU with both those dudes he spoke of.

You sure about that? I've got a student at Moody currently who fits that same bill; Major, ex-Marine, Super Cobra pilot, hired by A-10 ANG unit. He just started IFF.

Seems pretty coincidental that there'd be two of the same floating around right now....

[Scooter14]

Hacker, you'd be surprised how many of those dudes there are out there...A guy from my ANG unit who went through the fixed wing qual program while I was down the hall in UPT was a former Cobra dude, and he introduced me to three other guys, all going through FWQ who were Marine Corps Cobra dudes, one of them was going up to fly Hogs, and a Huey guy going to Hogs as well. I also have met a couple of them down here at beautiful Altus.

Three of my Tweet IP's (still Marines) were Cobra guys, and they told me about some of their buds who have made the transition to the Guard, and one of our T-1 IP's was a Cobra dude before he became a reservist, so I would not be at all surprised if there were multiple guys going through IFF and D-M at the same time.

They're takin' over, man!

[Guest Rooster1974]

It looks like some of you have good info regarding the tanker to figher subject. I just interviewed with a Guard F-15 unit and they aren't sure where to start with me since I have a helo background. I am especially interested in getting in touch with the Marine crossovers or the C-130 guy to find out what regulation governs the training requirements or who the POC is for these kind of transitions...can anyone help me out?

[Guest rotorhead]

If you went to T-34 in the USN/USMC, then rotors, you need T-38 Phase III, then IFF, then the appropriate fighter FTU. If you went to T-37 in the USAF, then rotors, you need T-38 Phase III, then IFF, then the appropriate fighter FTU. If you went to Army training exclusively, you need FWQ with T-38, then IFF, then the appropriate fighter FTU.

[Guest Joe Dirt]

Originally posted by rotorhead:

If you went to T-34 in the USN/USMC, then rotors, you need T-38 Phase III, then IFF, then the appropriate fighter FTU. If you went to T-37 in the USAF, then rotors, you need T-38 Phase III, then IFF, then the appropriate fighter FTU. If you went to Army training exclusively, you need FWQ with T-38, then IFF, then the appropriate fighter FTU.

I assume the case would be the same for heavy pilots in the Guard?

[zrooster99]

I'm kinda curious about the answer to one of the earlier questions...if you go U-2s, how much do you fly '38s, and what kind of mission profiles do you fly? I think it would almost be worth it to go U-2s just for the chance to fly '38s around all the time.

P.S. Rooster, Glad to see a fellow Rooster in here...is '74 your class year?

[Guest pjc2002]

I talked to a U-2 pilot at a Columbus Air Force base career day about a year back. He said after getting your T-38 qual through your U-2 tour it was possible to get a fighter follow on active duty. Most people don't because they love the U-2 community, but he said it was possible. He said the F-117 was a common airframe people would go to after the U-2. The guy I was talking to had a -135 and -21 background. Maybe this is just urban legend, anyone else heard this, or know for real?

[Champ Kind]

From my VERY limited experience, it seems to me that bouncing around from airframe to airframe would make you a "jack of all trades, master of none."

I mean, the missions, not just the jets would be changing drastically. Airlift to recon to stealth fighter (or whatever other pointy-nosed asset you ended up with)... pretty drastic changes. I don't see how you could get many upgrades in any of those because you were switching up so frequently.

[Hacker]

Originally posted by HighlyAimed:

after getting your T-38 qual through your U-2 tour it was possible to get a fighter follow on active duty.

I have only seen *one* person do this. One. Uno. This was one guy, a Marine on an exchange, who went to an F-117 from the U-2 by order of a couple Generals.

Post 1999 (when the crossflow boards closed) I've never seen a "line" USAF guy from a non-fighter background get sent to a "line" USAF fighter job via the U-2.

Non-fighter guys who go to the U-2 have not been through IFF, so they would have to get an IFF slot out of programmed PFT. Plus, they'd have to get an FTU B-Course slot out of programmed PFT.

All of that...not very likely to happen.

With the number of F-15C and F-16C units closing thanks to BRAC, even previously rated fighter pilots in non-fighter jobs (ALFA, staff, schools)are having a tough time getting back to their fighters. Unless you have a General out there who is shepherding you around, I wouldn't count on it happening.

[EvilEagle]

Holy thread revival!

But, in any case, one thing that hasn't been addressed as far as cross-flow is TX/RTU availability. It's hard for guys that are previously qual'd in fighters to get back in the cockpit, much less guys that have no experience. My bro's that are IFF IP's at Moody are telling me that AFPC told them there will be no TX courses available for them when they finish their smurf jet tour. Times are tough right now....

[Guest SnakeT38]

Old Snake did the B-52H/T-38 ACE, T-38 IP then A-10...............was easy.

B727FE at AA............was a beotch!