T-6 Preflight Inspections

[Guest Siscojoe]

For anyone that knows the T-6 pubs, I am tring to find anything in writing concerning the requirements for a pilot to re-inspect the aircraft after getting strapped in and after a crew chief has made an "adjustment" to the jet. For example, you get strapped in and you get an OBOGS fail annunciator so the crew chief opens the access door to the OBOGS system, corrects what he thinks is the problem and closes the door and the annunciator goes away. Are we obligated to get out and basically do another walk around?

[Mambo]

...I don't have T-6 experience but I did work aircraft mx for 13 years and in all that time I have never had a pilot get out of a jet to inspect the work I've done while he was in the cockpit.

A red X will be put in the forms for the panel and part being changed, then a 7 level mx dude will inspect and sign off the red X when the work is finished. Then the pro-super will re-accomplish the ER, basically saying the jet is good to go.

[barney]

good question

[Guest C-21 Pilot]

There is nothing in writing that I can think of. However, the IP/AC had the authority to shut down and do another walk around at their own discretion relative to AFI 11-202 Vol 3 (safety and command issues).

In the end, I guess it depends on how comfortable you are w/ you Mx folks. If you taxi and something was to happen due to a door not closed, it's your ass, not theirs.

[Guest twinkle toes]

What Mambo said is exactly what we do on 16's.

[Shut up 'n color]

I do think it is up to the PIC whether or not they want to unstrap and check that door. Like C 21 said, if you are comfortable with your Mx dudes, then you should be fine. I have had issues with the side panel doors on the T6 (as i'm sure everyone has) and if there is no crew chief around to work their magic, the IP and I will just strap in and point to the door and they'll lock it down when they get there.

However, off station I'd lean towards the safe side and probably get out and double check things.

[mmkk111]

I found this straight out of the TO 1C-21A-1 (I'm getting ready for my AC upgrade check ride, and found it in section 2!):

NOTE

If maintenance has opened panels, cowls, or tailcone access door to perform maintenance after crew has accomplished the EXTERIOR INSPECTION checklist, a pilot will reaccomplish EXTERIOR INSPECTION items pertaining to the location affected by the maintenance. Maintenance actions to aircraft systems or avionics require the reaccomplishment of the full BATTERY START or GPU BEFORE STARTING ENGINES checklist, as applicable. This is required due to the close proximity and interrelated nature of many aircraft systems that may be inadvertently affected by maintenance action on another system.

Nate, that's out of section 2, p.2-16 after the battery start checklist.

I'm not sure if that's the norm in all jets, but I stumbled across it in my dash-1?

MK

[HerkDerka]

It's different for different planes.

HD

[Guest cguarino]

I was involved in a mishap once because an avionics guy left a tool on the intake of my jet (Viper or LGPS...you chose) while responding to a red ball and it went down motor on takeoff roll. For those of you that don't know about red balls, I was in the jet with the motor running when I discovered a problem. I shut down for the tech to perform the MX but did not get out of the jet. I got a thumbs up from the 7-level and the crew chief told me the tool check was good. It wasn't. Luckily I was able to abort (about 80KIAs) but it completly shelled out the engine. Lots of $$$. Of course their was a major mishap SIB conducted and an Accident Investigation Board. Neither board found any fault with my actions. These were thorough investigations and if there was a requirement for me to get out and reaccomplish the walk around, I'm sure they would have pointed it out. Sometimes you just have to trust our talented and well trained ground crew. This guy screwed up and lost his job.

[Guest SnakeT38]

Originally posted by C-21 Pilot:

There is nothing in writing that I can think of. However, the IP/AC had the authority to shut down and do another walk around at their own discretion relative to AFI 11-202 Vol 3 (safety and command issues).

In the end, I guess it depends on how comfortable you are w/ you Mx folks. If you taxi and something was to happen due to a door not closed, it's your ass, not theirs.

Not so sure I agree with this. If the door has

a light associated with it then you have an obligation to make it go out..........but if some access panel is opened while on a Red X and 2 or more Sup's confirm the Red X is gone and panels clear then I would think it is their butt and not yours. I don't ever remember shutting down any engines on a B-52 to run out and check a panel that MX went into while we are in the arming area or before taxi.

[Guest KoolKat]

I'm sure if it [edit: WAS] written in section 2 on page 2-16, your right, TBear...that would have been pointed out.

On one hand, it is ridiculous.

On the other, if that's what the book says, that's what the book says.

I don't remember ever reading something similar in the C-130 -1. There would sure be alot of walk around being conducted, that's for sure!

mmkk111, so are you saying that if a panel gets opened, all engines need to be shut down & the entire checklist started over?

While this is probably not a terribly big deal in a C-21, what's the actual practice. Now that you've read this guidance, what are you going to do next time? Shut the other engine down, just give the CP the brakes, or just get the thumbs up & press? Interesting...

BENDY

[ 26. July 2006, 00:55: Message edited by: Bender ]

[mmkk111]

Bendy-

One big difference in the -21 is that mx can't plug in, so if we have an issue, we've got to shut down the left side and open the door to talk to them. So most of the time you'll just shutdown and wait for them to fix the problem. You'll be standing there with your thumb up your anus, so just take a peek when there done and if everything is good to go, we press on. Do I re-do the checklist, not really.

Now, in the bigger stuff, I totally agree, let them do their work and get on with your day. I only brought that up because I came across it during my upgrade and figured it might relate since the T-6 is such a small bird.

MK

[Guest KoolKat]

Agreed.

One, the poster refered to as "C-21 Pilot" ( ) is better off for you having mentioned that, if he didn't catch that before.

Two, Ummm....I don't think Mx can plug in to the 130 unless the Load goes out and hands him a cord. So, "So most of the time you'll just shutdown and wait for them to fix the problem. You'll be standing there with your thumb up your anus, so just take a peek when there done and if everything is good to go, we press on. Do I re-do the checklist, not really" sounds right about perfect.

Three, it's probably really applicable to a T-6. If I were a Mx guy, I'd appreciate you shuting that prop off if you want me walking around your "jet."

And Four, if your a first time solo guy in the T-6, I'd like to see your hands at all times while I'm near your prop!! :D

BENDY

[ 27. July 2006, 06:19: Message edited by: Bender ]

[mmkk111]

I did give C-21 pilot the reference just to give him shit, since I've known him from when he was stationed back at Offutt.

Speaking of Offutt, hey Nate, I got my RC and I'm out of here in September! Of course that's after SV-83 ! I'm pretty stoked since it was my number one pick and three other dudes in my squadron wanted them as well (we ended up with two). [sorry for the thread hijack]

Bendy-

When I was at Whiting in the T-34, those mx guys would have us feather the prop, come up to the plane and beat the living hell out of whatever was broken, then spray their "mystery oil" on it and we were off. Ahhh the Navy....those were good times!

MK

[Guest mjk5401]

At Laughlin I've had MX open avionics doors twice while plugged in and engine running. One was on my check ride and another was with an ADO, both times we never got out of the jet to do another walk around. Yes it's the PICs responsibility, but think of the ops tempo loss if every pilot did that. What would be the point of having MX sups? They're probably more qualified to shut and lock that door than you are anyway.

[Mambo]

As said before, it all depends on the airframe. I've done hundreds of redballs on F-111's and F-15's and don't remember a pilot ever shutting down just to do a walk-around after I've finished, or check to see if I've closed a panel. Now on occasion, if we had to shut down both engines and it was going to be awhile for the fix, I've had them stand around and watch. Not a bad idea and it never bothered me to have them looking over my shoulder asking a question or two.

Herk world (crew airplane)...as an FE I have no problem jumping out of my seat to make sure that a panel/part ect...is closed/installed. Only takes less than a minute, MX guys don't mind and it gives me a warm fuzzy.