AMC vs ACC vs AFSOC

[Guest CoupPawn]

Are there any significant differences in the training and mentality for the different commands that have A/C? It has been discussed in passing a few threads, but has not been a center of focus (yes, I used the search fu'ction). From what I've read, ACC seems more focused on attention to detail and very scrutinous compared to AMC. Are these differing mentalities mandated or part of the culture that has evolved through the years in each respective command (unofficial), or is it just that certain personalities are drawn to certain A/Cs which defines the atmosphere and training? How about AFSOC's mentality?

[Chuck17]

The AMC mentality is not what I'd call 'lacking attention to detail or scrutiny.' Laid back? Maybe, but not without what should be present in EVERY command - namely professionalism and pride.

One big difference between AMC and ACC is that on the majority of AMC platforms enlisted folks serve side by side with officers (Granted this is true in AWACS, JSTARS, RC's, etc). That effects the group dynamic a lot. Personnally, I wouldnt have it any other way. Our Loadmasters on the C-17 are some great guys - some kind of sick hybrid between a load and an engineer. They really know their sh!t.

AMC airframes/squadrons dont all deploy together like many in ACC do (save the C-130 and 135 rotations to the Deid). That effects the group mentality as well. When we have a CC's call in my squadron, we're lucky to have 40 people there, PILOTS AND LOADS. Everyone else is flying. When you get home from a 2 or 3 week trip, all you want to do is get a break and a few days off. Working in the office there's usually a small group that hangs out everyday having a beer or two, but thats it. Even fridays are pretty tame... no one's home to enjoy them!

Ive found that I become good friends with my crew, and thus a few select individuals, but Im not best buds with every other LT in my squadron...

But as far as attention to detail or scrutiny, I dont think one MAJCOM or another has anything to do with it. Its up to the individual. Id be willing to say there are more type A+ personnalites flying fighters than heavies. Fighter pilots HAVE to be detail oriented... they can get killed in a micro-second or for the simplest thing. Heavy guys can get killed too, it just takes longer and makes a bigger fire ball. Fighter guys have to know threats and everything about them. They dont spend hours in the vault for nothing. I wish more heavy guys were like them. Trying to have a tactical discussion about capabilities and counters with some of the guys in my squadron is like talking to my dog (the tails' wagging but they dont understand what the hell Im saying).

That being said, just like anywhere else, if you dont know your shit, or cant fly the jet well, you will get hammered in the debrief and may have to go talk to someone about it. People hook rides in AMC too... Our stan/eval guys ARE sh!t hot and they want you to be too. It makes their job easier...

Id say that every young SNAP's goal should be to be as technically proficient in their aircraft as possible; to be the best wingman you can be.

Thats not always the case though. There are several guys who have showed to my squadron asking, "Can I be an exec? Can I work at the group or wing?" All they care about is making rank and most of them are not SH pilots.

Not universally true, just this guys observations and opinions...

Chuck

[ 27. January 2006, 11:22: Message edited by: ChuckFlys17s ]

[Hotel]

I think there is credit in the personality bit you mentioned. I would also tend to agree with Chuck's comments too.

I've met ACC guys who I totally click with and others I don't - same for AMC. Never seen an AFSOC guy. Heard of AFSOC sightings.

But, what do I know - I've not "been there done that" yet. It's just Friday, and I want to hang out at BaseOps cause I don't want to be productive.

[ 27. January 2006, 11:14: Message edited by: Hotel ]

[Wing Sweep]

I flew in both AMC and AFSOC Herks (Slicks and MC-Papas). Both cultures are pretty laid back. AFSOC Os tend to hang with their E's a lot more on and off duty, at home and TDY. IMO, AFSOC treats all crewmembers more as equals vs AMC where there is more of the O vs E seperation (with few exceptions). I personally liked the AFSOC culture a lot more. Small communities (though it seems that's rapidly changing in the CONUS), where you know everybody and there's little to no whining about deployments, no notice directed missions from above, or being gone all the time to get a mish done.

Operationally, the biggest thing for me was that in AMC I always lived with a slight fear that I might get Q-3 for some bullsh!t reason or that I might actually have to use my own discretion while TDY and get a Q-3 because I did something that might be considered "unsafe" or wasn't totally by the book, all the while I was just trying to hack the mish.

In AFSOC, you have waaaaaaaaaaay, waaaaaaaay more leeway (did I make it clear enough) to use your brain and get the mish done. Safety is always at the top of our scan; however, on real missions (by this I mean other than training) it was like, "Okay, X mission HAS TO BE DONE. We're doing WHATEVER it takes to get the mish done." Our leadership always backed us up 100%. I don't remember of one time they ever questioned the crews integrity or reasoning as to why we bent or broke a reg to get the mish done. NEVER! In fact, they would commend us for using our brains and figuring out what needed to be done. We weren't reckless or trying to break rules. It was just the nature of the beast. In AMC Herk world, that kind of sh!t just didn't go, though I do remember at the kickoff of OEF the slick world had that kind of leeway. It went away after a few months.

This is based on my experiences. AMC was my first assignment,so things may have changed a little, but I doubt it. In my opinion, AETC/ACC/AMC = Big Blue = Big Brother = I'm watching your every move. Don't know much about the OCONUS commands, so maybe someone else can shed some light on that matter.

I think certain personality types are better suited for certain commands. Some people can adjust easily to various types of cultures and mentalities, while others will just be miserable. I'd say the majority of people do adjust and enjoy whatever culture they're in and end up thinking theirs is the best command. Okay, no one would think that about AETC, but..... you guys know what I mean.

[HerkDerka]

Originally posted by ChuckFlys17s:

The AMC mentality is not what I'd call 'lacking attention to detail or scrutiny.'

All together a good post, however I'm a herk guy, I don't know anything about AMC. :D

HD