Did The USAF Get Beat Up By India Again?

[Guest thebronze]

Just wondering if any Fighter Drivers here have any first-hand knowledge of this.

Not trying to p*ss anyone off, but if this happened two years running, that's very disturbing...

Did The USAF Get Beat Up By India Again?

Here's a quick bit of defense-wonkishness, which I simply couldn't resist. No-one's saying so officially, but after the shock of having their F-15s kicked around the sky last year by the Indian Air Force in Russian jets, the USAF must have been hoping to even the score in this year's US/India air exercises.

The thing is, the only reports so far (and admittedly they are Indian reports) suggest they got another shock.

This year the USAF took F-16s - the very jet the US is hoping to sell to both Pakistan and India- while yet again they were flying with and against Indian Air Force Migs and Mirages.

One report says:

For the second year running, the Indian Air Force came out with flying colours in their brush with the world's most technological advanced airpower -- the United States of America.

Like fish taking to water, Indian fighter pilots took their maiden introduction to Airborne Early Warning and Control System technology, which flew over the country's skies for the first time. Fresh from having proved their mettle in manoeuvres with their United States Air Force counterparts in exercises last year on F-15 Tomcats, IAF pilots held their own, when they came up against the Fighting Falcons -- F-16's, billed as the most superior fighter in the world during the almost two week long joint exercises.

Another is even more jubilant:

As the Cope India 2005 Indo-US air force exercises wound down today after two weeks of feverish action in the eastern skies, the US Air Force were left with a stark, double-edged realisation.

One — that it is no longer the unchallenged leader in the skies, and two—for all future joint operations in South Asia, the IAF would, without doubt, be its natural partner.

...During the last Cope India exercise in February 2004, American F-15 pilots had admitted finding it bizarre that their Indian counterparts had routed them in many manoeuvres. This time round, the buzzword was a studied ‘jointness’, though pilots told this newspaper off the record that the IAF had maintained its "one-up"

I await the official USAF version with interest.

Update 20th Nov.

The Stars and Stripes is being pretty circumspect, only quoting the USAF's F-16 squadron commander as saying -

“We’re trying to not talk about the scoring stuff,” he added. “I think both sides got a lot of bad press last year and everyone missed the emphasis. More importantly, both sides are doing well and we’re accomplishing the objective that we set out here to obtain.”

However, this discussion forum by Indian defense-wonks, including IAF pilots and defense journalists has plenty more detail - and they seem very pleased with the Indian Air Force's performance, especially the newly aquired and highly advanced Sukoi-30 MKI and the surprises that India's ageing but refurbished Mig 21s inflicted on the F-16 crews.

https://cernigsnewshog.blogspot.com/2005/11...ndia-again.html

[Guest SnakeT38]

We are letting them think they are good before the Raptor shows up.

[Login Name]

It's b/c we didn't send in Doug Master's...christ he took on an entire Middle Eastern country and got out with out a scratch. Just give him the old Hades and he'll take care of India.

Interesting that the author of the article confused the Navy with the AF...you'd think he'd get his story straight. It's a minor thing, but still makes you wonder just how legit this article is.

"United States Air Force counterparts in exercises last year on F-15 Tomcats"

[Guest thebronze]

It's b/c we didn't send in Doug Master's...christ he took on an entire Middle Eastern country and got out with out a scratch. Just give him the old Hades and he'll take care of India.

:eek: Damnit!! I totally forgot about Doug. He's got to be what, a BGen by now? He's probably got a sh*tload of 0-1 sorties since then! (*OIE, that is..)

(*Operation Iron Eagle)

[FlyAF]

I wonder if the ROE were any different this year. The ROE are a major consideration, and this was beat to death last year when the F-15s flew.

If I remember correctly, the USAF had both hands tied behind its back.

[Hacker]

Since the actual truth of what occurred at the first Cope India was different than all the spins put on it by the various news outlets, I'd be very surprised if the real story was also out this year.

[Toasty]

Your "Newshog" source seems like such an excellent place to accurate, up to date information concerning global military affairs and all...oh look, they're one year old!

Everyone knows that no one can touch us in a real world situation. To think otherwise would be stupid.

[Guest thebronze]

Your "Newshog" source seems like such an excellent place to accurate, up to date information concerning global military affairs and all...oh look, they're one year old!

That isn't the only place I've read about it...

[Guest thebronze]

Since the actual truth of what occurred at the first Cope India was different than all the spins put on it by the various news outlets, I'd be very surprised if the real story was also out this year.

Then what is "the actual truth"?

Or are you going to break out the "OPSEC card"?

[Guest mo7stanley]

What is the story on Doug Master?

[Guest rangerbob5]

Those F-15 Tomcats are tough jets.

[Guest ericvano]

What's an F-15 Tomcat? Is that some sort of UAV? Oh wait, I think I saw Tom Cruise or Val Kilmer fly one of those in Iron Eagle. AWEsome flick.

[Guest skipplet]

Originally posted by ChuckFlys17s:

Its a horrible 80's movie where a 16 yr old kid flies an F-16 to rescue his dad from the Durka-stani dictator...

[Champ Kind]

Originally posted by Mo7Stanley:

What is the story on Doug Master?

Blasphemy.

[Guest SuperStallionIP]

Doug had "One Vision".

[Guest mo7stanley]

I think I may have seen a brief few seconds of that movie and then just chuckled and left to do something else or changed the channel. There was this guy flying an f-16 and he is being told to do something a certain way and then he says something along the lines of: I am going to do it my way. He then proceeds to push play on his tape player with stupid music on the tape.

Is that the movie?

[Guest masekrs]

Originally posted by Mo7Stanley:

I think I may have seen a brief few seconds of that movie and then just chuckled and left to do something else or changed the channel. There was this guy flying an f-16 and he is being told to do something a certain way and then he says something along the lines of: I am going to do it my way. He then proceeds to push play on his tape player with stupid music on the tape.

Is that the movie?

Yeah, that's it. It's a real winner.

[Guest thebronze]

He then proceeds to push play on his tape player with stupid music on the tape.

LIAR!!!!!

That was great music, right there.

Queen baby!

[Hacker]

Originally posted by toastychicken:

Everyone knows that no one can touch us in a real world situation. To think otherwise would be stupid.

No...quite the opposite. To think we are unbeatable is stupid.

[Hacker]

Originally posted by Johann:

Then what is "the actual truth"? Or are you going to break out the "OPSEC card"?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm going to do. If you have the security clearance, then go read the report for yourself.

If you don't have the clearance, then 'nuff said.

[Guest Hoser]

PTP (Point to Ponder)

1) We don't fly blue vs blue

2) When we are blue air, there are restrictions that the US imposses on themselves, so as to not divulge the true capabilities, tactics, etc.

Cap-10

Edited March 14, 2009 by Cap-10

[gimmeaplane]

"The 'OPSEC card'?!?!" Believe it or not, John Doe bad guy also has an intelligence service. And they have internet access. So, yeah.

[Guest thebronze]

You guys crack me up...

I'm not asking for your duress words or crypto freq's.

Not everything we say/do is an OPSEC violation.

I'm pretty sure that the answer to my question is available on the INTERNET, but that really isn't the point, is it?

Some of you here puportedly fly fighter's (or not), so I was asking for those people to shed some light on what really happened. I didn't ask anyone to give up any OPSEC info.

Lighten up and don't take yourselves so seriously...

[Guest Hoser]

Johann,

What I was trying to allude to in my previous post is that the news can't be taken at face value, the reason being because of the restrictions, placed on the USAF themself, to help cover the true capabilites of a certain weapon, or certain tactics won't be used, becuase then a questions like "What technology/hardware does the US have that allows them to execute tactic X?" arrises.

If India just wants to count kills, us vs them, I could care less.

Cap-10

[ 22. November 2005, 17:13: Message edited by: Cap-10]

Edited March 14, 2009 by Cap-10

[Guest Hoser]

"F-15 Tomcats, IAF pilots held their own, when they came up against the Fighting Falcons -- F-16's, billed as the most superior fighter in the world during the almost two week long joint exercises."

F-15 Tomcats? Fighting Pork Falcons the most superior?

Talk about sketchy reporting.

Cap-10

Edited March 14, 2009 by Cap-10