Did The USAF Get Beat Up By India Again?

[Hacker]

Originally posted by Johann:

Some of you here puportedly fly fighter's (or not), so I was asking for those people to shed some light on what really happened. I didn't ask anyone to give up any OPSEC info.

We can't shed light on what 'really happened' because of classification or OPSEC issues. Why is that so difficult to understand?

What you read in open sources often only tells part of the story, or repeats information that was just an educated guess to begin with.

What happened with the original Cope India is that the USAF brass reported *some* of what happened as a way to bolster support for the Raptor. Since they could not/did not release the *whole* story, the general public went to town with just those specific bits of information. Those bits of info did not tell the whole story, and many of the "conclusions" that were drawn by both the press and general public were false (e.g., the Indians did not kick the USAF's butt wholesale, nor is the F-15C inadequate against the Flanker). Most of the 'results' that you saw reported in the press did not take into consideration the red-air limitations put on the USAF jets during the exercise.

Given the disparity between what was publicly released about the original Cope India and what the classified reports stated, I suspect that the same or similar is true with respect to the 'current' Cope India.

[Guest Krabs]

More fodder for this thread (about 5 months late):

https://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewl...-iaf-su30m.html

[EvilEagle]

More fodder for this thread (about 5 months late):

https://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewl...-iaf-su30m.html

I flew against them in their Red Flag prep. It's a good jet, the pilots are learning fast and there is a lot more capability they can get from that airframe. I will take my Eagle against any of their SU-30's anytime. I'd say that's enough said in an open forum.

[Guest Krabs]

I flew against them in their Red Flag prep. It's a good jet, the pilots are learning fast and there is a lot more capability they can get from that airframe. I will take my Eagle against any of their SU-30's anytime. I'd say that's enough said in an open forum.

Understood. Training over technology triumphs again I suppose.

I wonder what U.S.-trained pilots could do with Sukhois. I guess that's up to Tactical Air Support to figure out maybe.

[abmwaldo]

If you scroll down through several of the videos on Youtube you'll see a news story from an Indian news agency. Good to see they can take quotes out of context and throw them on the tube as well as American media can.

[Guest Krabs]

As stated by Krabs:

Dumb statement.

Feedback noted.

I'd take an Eagle over a Flanker any day. Evil has said the same. Plus why would we want Flankers when we have Raptors?

Just think of what a Raptor can do against an MKI.

Tactical Air Support...wow. A scheduler's dream! Really though that is not a bad idea. A company that provides professional red air would be awesome.

Questions?

Beerman

Just saying, I think it would be cool to get to play with a Flanker (I think they are beautiful and capable airplanes). No need to replace...well, there is a need to replace, but not with Flankers. Too bad we can only get 183 Raptors...maybe.

[yerfer]

Feedback noted.

Just saying, I think it would be cool to get to play with a Flanker (I think they are beautiful and capable airplanes). No need to replace...well, there is a need to replace, but not with Flankers. Too bad we can only get 183 Raptors...maybe.

Interesting you bring this up. In November I made a trip to Nellis and got to visit the Aggressors. Supposedly the AF looked into purchasing 15 or so Flankers to really get the feel for potential enemy aircraft. In the end, the AF said no for cost reasons. To maintain the aircraft they'd need a full maintenance crew, fabricated parts from foreign providers, and training from foreign fliers. It was more money than the AF wanted to spend.

Instead, we just get a hold of the manuals sold with the Flankers and try to mimic it's flying capabilities with our own. Not a bad idea.

[Steve Davies]

Instead, we just get a hold of the manuals sold with the Flankers and try to mimic it's flying capabilities with our own. Not a bad idea.

Or, you get hold of two Flankers from a former Soviet satellite, fly them somewhere secret in the Nellis ranges, and limit exposures to a small number of Aggressor, WIC and OT&E guys. An even better idea!

[Scooter14]

Or, you get hold of two Flankers from a former Soviet satellite, fly them somewhere secret in the Nellis ranges, and limit exposures to a small number of Aggressor, WIC and OT&E guys. An even better idea!

I heard they used to do this in the past...someone should write a book about that.

[ColoradoAviator]

I heard they used to do this in the past...someone should write a book about that.

As long as it is written by a saucy Brit...

[Steve Davies]

I heard they used to do this in the past...someone should write a book about that.

Nah, there's no money in it!

As long as it is written by a saucy Brit...

In my mind you are female, very hot and go all weak when you hear the accent.

Don't spoil it by telling me that you are a bloke who hates the English and their yellow teeth, and thinks that we need to learn how to speak properly.

[brickhistory]

Don't spoil it by telling me that you are a bloke who hates the English and their yellow teeth, and thinks that we need to learn how to speak properly.

Redundant...

[OverTQ]

It's b/c we didn't send in Doug Master's...christ he took on an entire Middle Eastern country and got out with out a scratch. Just give him the old Hades and he'll take care of India.

I will take your Doug Master's (who at least had good taste in music) and give you Jake Preston. I will even throw in a skanky Sean Young so you can have the matching set.

Edited March 16, 2009 by OverTQ