When wives talk shop

[Toro]

In a couple past threads, the subject of wives' opinions on their (pilot) husbands work issues was brought up. Some people (who I believe to be non-flyers) seem to think we (flyers( disregard our wives opinions; nothing could be further from the truth. I value my wife's thoughts 110% and feel that on many issues she has more rationale and insight than I do. However, I absolutely cannot stand when I hear a wife "talk shop" with regards to the details of her husbands work. Why? Because the wives are not in the squadron 12 hours a day to see the details of what goes on and experience the soap-opera BS of AF politics. All they get is what they hear second hand from their husbands or from other spouses, yet they talk with such confidence that you'd think they were the source of the info.

Example - I've got a bud whose wife loves to talk about what's going on with him. If I had a dime for every time I heard about how he was "screwed out of" a certain opportunity because "the squadron commander was an idiot", or he "got looked over" for a good deal because "the DO was playing favorites," I'd like to tell her that she has no idea what she's talking about - that I know what's going on, that her husband isn't being screwed by anybody, but rather he just isn't quite as good as she would like to believe.

This thread is not to bash on wives 'shop talk', but to give specific examples of when it has happened and why it is not a good thing. My point is that while the spouses are dearly loved, they generally don't have enough information to "talk shop."

[Guest ptwob179wif]

Well I am the new gal here, but definitely wanted to get my thoughts in on this one...my husband will be starting UPT in Nov. (he is currently working as OPS Officer in Security Forces) and although I have not experienced the "shop talk" that exists at UPT I can assure you it happens everywhere...I personally don't participate in "shop talk" amongst the wives on base (or really anyone for that matter) because to be quite frank I know I will most likely prove that I know ABSOLUTELY nothing about my husband's job. I do, however know many women who are not affraid to give their two cents about the happenings of their husband's squadron. But, my question to you Toro is what is the alternative??? Would you rather your wife, or any other wife for that matter, just sit and smile as they listen to you gentlemen gripe about this, that, and the other that happened at work/in class today?? I have a feeling the only reason your buddy's wife is even chiming-in in the first place is because when you get a group of AF guys together they INEVITABLY start "talking shop"--I guess my suggestion would be to keep the conversation away from work and on something more enjoyable for everyone (wives included).

[Guest TheBurt]

It was pretty disgusting to see some of the wives and fiances at UPT trying to politic for their husbands, even though their husbands/fiances totally sucked at UPT, and then crying on assignment night when they didn't get the aircraft and/or base they wanted and how they were getting screwed. However, some of the wives were totally awesome!!

[Guest KoolKat]

Originally posted by ptwob179wif:

I have a feeling the only reason your buddy's wife is even chiming-in in the first place is because when you get a group of AF guys together they INEVITABLY start "talking shop"

Good point.

However, I do not think this is what Toro is talking about. We should have some stories shortly enough (likely as soon as Rainman gets done with his newspaper and gets off the can) that clarify the difference between "chiming-in" and talking out of your ass.

[Guest pcampbell]

Maybe my wife is just really freaking cool, but I don't ever here her talk smack about the politics in the squadron. I really haven't heard the other wives either. That could be because the wives that would most likely do that are married to the dudes that would most likely think that they are getting screwed (when the arent'), and we just don't hang out with "those people." I am still in UPT however, and we really haven't had a chance to get "screwed" yet. Assignment night is six weeks away. We'll see what happens then. I can foresee the wives that are married to the dudes that will "get screwed" will be talking about how our Flt CC is an idiot and their husbands got boned, or buffed, or faiped.

[Batman]

You know, Toro, wives' opinions on their (pilot) husbands is like first-time parents discussing their kid. Family ties are like Texas pride, overwelming and in-your-face at times, but still a good thing.

This reminds me of the Pony League coach whose son is the "star" pitcher. No matter how many batters he walks or hits, that kid aint coming out of the game. Despite the inquisitive looks and complete silence from other parents and players it's not until another coach says something to the coach that "reality" hits.

Wives protecting their husbands and sticking up for them is natural, expected, and is good for them--and can be for everyone else in the unit.

However, the next time a wife misspeaks about her husband's squadron commander, how her husband "got looked over for" someone else, or got the shaft because of a Boss "playing favorites" you owe it to everyone involved to point out her inaccuracies.

She gets her information from her husband or from other wives. She needs to get the straight scoop from someone removed from both of these corners. You don't need to eye poke her, just state the circumstances that led to her husband's "screwing". Tell her (hopefully with him present too) what he needed or needs to do to change "their" circumstance. Nobody up until this time has probably had the nads to tell "them" how the "system" works--whether it's hey, you need to take the next deployment, fly more often, do social events, get your Masters, etc. Her eyes will probably open to the news on how things work within the unit, and how many different "factors" determine a person's fate and career path.

We owe it to wife, husband, and our unit to set the record straight. Gossip and misinformation in a squadron can expand like Rick Majerus' waistband and kill morale faster than a broke VCR on a deployment.

BATMAN

[Guest croftfam]

Okay, I've got a couple of stories. My wife is pretty awesome about all this stuff because we had some good examples of what a crappy wife is like.

Back when I was casual my wife would go to the spouses' activities and come home with some wild stories about some pretty big whiners. I talked with her about how that crap doesn't need to ever get passed on. My wife's opinion is very important, but she is smart enough to only give it to me!

My brother's wife is horrible. He is Intel, so not exactly the same, but very similar. Everytime we talk about AF anything she starts talking about how "in the Intel world" if you really want the good information first you should talk to the wives because they "always know everything first." I tell my brother he needs to put a stop to that crap, but apparently she wears the pants and gets the intel first.

My buddies wife is horrible! I love this guy, but his wife has got to go. She doesn't have a job (because she's lazy) then whines about being bored, so where does she live??? yep, the squadron. She won't go away. She gets constant harrassment from everyone about being there, her husband is embarrassed by her never going away (still won't tell her to stop coming in) but she still comes in non-stop! She always talks about how well "she knows the systems" as well as everyone else and "could do our job." I'm pretty sure that she is a very extreme example, but she isn't the only one out there like this.

Again, I love my wife, but I don't want her fighting any Air Force battles for me unless I specifically ask her. Maybe I'm a jerk, but I know I'm not the only guy who feels this way.

[Beaver]

We had a wife who was an ex enlisted life support tech who would come into the scheduling office and tell us where to put pucks.

[Guest juliecole]

I hate it when wives talk shop. I don't care when your husband upgrades to ac commander, goes to SOS, how many sorties he has flown etc. I only care that my husband gets paid on the 1st and 15th of the month, that we don't get dropped from Tricare, and he makes it home from his deployments prety much on time. I hated going to the wives meetings where all that was discussed. Get a hobby!!!!

KIPP . . ahhhh the bake sales from UPT. I am very curious which class were you in. You can PM if you don't want to post it in public. There were four spouses total in my husbands UPT class. Three of the spouses worked and I was pregnant and had a four year old. We got strong armed into a bake sale and luncheon. The other spouses figured, we would try it. We raised $110 and it took over 5 hours of time between set up and selling. A few of the guys in the class, brought there lunch and were too cheap to even buy a sandwhich. That was the first and last bake sale. Dues were started that month. Thank GOD !!!

[ 23. July 2005, 22:21: Message edited by: TankerWife ]

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Originally posted by Batman:

However, the next time a wife misspeaks about her husband's squadron commander, how her husband "got looked over for" someone else, or got the shaft because of a Boss "playing favorites" you owe it to everyone involved to point out her inaccuracies.

Bad, bad, BAD advice.

DO NOT engage another man's wife when she is b!tching about how her husband is getting screwed, no matter how full of sh!t she is.

Big mouth wives don't know anything and they won't learn anything from you. Avoid them. Period.

Just in case I didn't make my point, clear your mind and prepare to copy...

DO NOT ENGAGE A PISSED OFF, LOW SA WIFE.

[Guest IAGuardWife]

For one, I have never particapated in the spouses group on base. It just doesn't interest me. However, I think it's a great organization for some people. Especially new wives who don't know what to expect and can talk to women in the same shoes. I know my friends who aren't married to the military can't grasp your spouse being out of town for months on end. But hey, that's my life - I handle it.

I think for the most part every woman wants to support her husband 100%. If something bad happens to him, her first thought is that it couldn't possibly be his fault, something must have gone wrong. I've heard women complain about their husband's being screwed over on assignment night. Would you rather her support him and assume he must have gotten screwed or have her tell everyone that her husband is a f-ing idiot who wasn't smart enough to get what he wanted? If you don't want your wife to go around talking about "his getting screwed", don't tell her that you "got screwed", tell her you f-ed up and flunked your ride. She's only going to repeat what she knows!

Something I don't think fliers realize is that most spouses don't care that much about flying. The year of UPT is 99.9% flying. You can't go to the O'Club, the grocery store, a party or ANYWHERE without the ONLY topic of conversation being flying. If you want your wife to not engage in squadorn politics, TALK TO HER ABOUT SOMETHING OTHER THAN FLYING!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: Because when she's going to get together w/ the other wives, that's the only topic she's been exposed to for weeks on end.

[Champ Kind]

Originally posted by IAGuardWife:

Something I don't think fliers realize is that most spouses don't care that much about flying. The year of UPT is 99.9% flying. You can't go to the O'Club, the grocery store, a party or ANYWHERE without the ONLY topic of conversation being flying. If you want your wife to not engage in squadorn politics, TALK TO HER ABOUT SOMETHING OTHER THAN FLYING!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: Because when she's going to get together w/ the other wives, that's the only topic she's been exposed to for weeks on end.

That is very true, and a great point. Some of my buds and I were just talking about that the other day.... how, no matter what, when we go out and eat, go for a few beers, go on the river, or even when talking to our families/girlfriends, flying does dominate the conversation.

As much as I love flying, I actually get happy when some of the LSI instructors start shooting the turds about current events and whatnot during sim briefs... reminds me that there is something else out there beyond the realm of flying.

[Hacker]

I don't know what kinds of squadrons a lot of the people that are answering here are in, but every squadron I've been in has had a "wives' network" which is always informal but still wields all the Power of the Force.

It's not something that wives are going to 'join', but it's more out of necessity that spouses will participate. When fighter squadrons deploy, generally most of the husbands are going to be gone for a length of time simultaneously. Spouses generally have to stick together during deployments for a lot of reasons -- anything from making sure lawns get mowed (sts) and cars get fixed (I know, sounds chauvanistic but I've found these are generally true problems) to just plain old mutual emotional support.

Most of my wife's best friends at each duty station have been other wives from my squadron. The same thing holds true for those other squadron wives...and when you get groups of inter-linking frineds like that, *bang*...there's your network.

Information, good and bad, spreads through the network like wildfire. The leadership can even use the network for good and squelch rumors by releasing the right information via their spouses.

If any pilot out there thinks that the leadership doesn't get wind of when their wife is complaining about something that happened to their spouse at work, they're dreaming.

I see a lot of petty complaints from men on here about the hens getting together and clucking about. I also see some spouses here saying that they're going to Fight The Power.

Good luck on that for both sides. The spouse network is there, for better or worse, and the Force is Strong with Them.

[Guest IAGuardWife]

The term "join" probably isn't the correct word. I've never participated in a spouses group in the squadron and attended spouse coffees. I have had a lot of friends who were other spouses in the squadron, but do not participate in the spouses group.

I agree, when your husband is overseas, the squadron should be there for you. I've never gotten that support from the spouses, though. Anything I've ever needed from new tires on my car, income tax troubles, my lawn mowed (STS) and snow shoveled, I've called the squadron directly. I've never needed to contact the squadron commander's wife to get that kind of help.

Originally posted by gimmeaplane:

Everybody else...how does a wife get in the squadron?! Isn't there controlled access? Most unclass areas I've been in have that. I can't believe the commanders tolerate a distraction like that.

If you consider a wife a "distraction to be tolerated" you are going to stay single for a long time.

[ 24. July 2005, 20:10: Message edited by: IAGuardWife ]

[Guest Rainman A-10]

My wife has always tried to make friends but stay out of the Catty Chatty Cathy part of the deal. It is a very difficult balancing act. She has finds it especially difficult when she hears spouses talking about other people's personal lives.

I don't talk about work with my wife. Ever. I do that for a couple reasons. One, it isn't very interesting to her and I would rather talk to her about other things. Two, it is none of her business and it keeps her from accidentally saying something about a topic she shouldn't know anything about. She's totally cool with it.

She has asked me if I know about things she has heard through the network that sound a little outrageous. I ask her what she heard and then laugh and say "that's not what is really happening." It is amazing how twisted the truth becomes when it is passed though the filters of the "network".

My wife is really cool and she has a big picture. My wife is smarter than I am. She works harder than I do. Her work is more important than mine. I don't want to drag her down by talking about my stupid job. It's bad enough that I have made her move every couple years, I'm not going to come home and bore her to death about my job. I certainly have never told her I am getting the shaft at work, maybe because I've never actually felt that way.

Only once has anyone said anything to me at work about my wife. We were deployed to the desert and my wife was sending a couple of the single guys that worked for me care packages. She included the things she thought the single guys might like. They loved getting her care packages with cookies and other "adult" items. Another dude came up to me all pissed off saying that his wife didn't approve of some of the things my wife was sending the guys. I asked him for an example. He mentioned a couple magazines (I used to laugh when I imagined my pregnant wife with three kids in tow waddling up the the counter at the 7-11 and asking for one of each magazine on the rack behind the clerk). I asked him how his wife knew anything about what my wife sent in the care packages. He reeled a bit and said he didn't know...yeah, right. Everyone knew he told his wife everything. We all knew it because he got in trouble once when he joined the dark side van on a TDY and later got in trouble for going to a gentleman's club. His wife mentioned it to some of the other wives at a coffee and the wives of the dark side crew all said "So what? A strip joint is the safest place they can be. We would rather have them there than in some meat market bar where they could actually take one of the women home." I told him that if he ever mentioned my wife's name again I would put him in the hospital. I added that I didn't expect him to be imbibing in the "Listerine" or reading any of the entertainment materials that she was sending over. That was that.

Wives should stay out of their husband's careers.

[Guest edwarkl]

On the other hand...I have received a lot of good information from the wives that are with their husbands at UPT. They seems to have more time to do the research and accessibility to people who know. They have the answers to questions that interest me more. I want to know more about what to expect as a spouse from the different airframes. Sometimes though, they do go overboard, but then again I have heard quite a few of the boys also talking about how they got screwed.

Considering how much their husbands careers affect their lives, I can understand why they get more involved. When the talk turns to airplanes/work I usually go find something else to do. It's not that I don't care, I just don't have the time to become proficient in the topic. Besides my BF never elaborates on his daily activities unless something really good, or really bad happened.

[Guest SeekYeFirst]

O.k Guys-

I just want to say that while there ARE plenty of wives who have the reputation of being "overly involved" (to put it nicely) in their husbands training, there are also plenty of normal wives who have healthy boundries on the issue.

To all of you non-married guys, don't panic! Of course there will always be people (wives) who are out of line, but for the most part there are some pretty amazing ladies out there who play a major role in making Pilot Training a successful and great experience for their husbands.

I just don't want the wives to get a bad rap from this post. Some of you guys have posted some really rude posts about some wives that you know. Of course it's annoying when people think they know more than they actually do. Of course it's annoing when a wife crosses the line.

With that said- please be respectful of us. There is no need to post "horror stories" about totally extreme situations (as entertaning as they may be ). It gives the majority of us a bad rap and takes away from all of the positive things that we bring to UPT. Come on guys... WHERE"S THE LOVE??

[Herk Mafia]

I dont think the thread was meant to degrade into wife bashing, just to point out that wives have the ability to get out of hand and its just something to think about and watch out for.

[Guest flychick]

Originally posted by AFUPTstud:

I dont think the thread was meant to degrade into wife bashing, just to point out that wives have the ability to get out of hand and its just something to think about and watch out for.

I'm pretty sure it was meant for that. Didn't it start out "let's tell horror stories of annoying wives who talk shop?"

Personally, I think it is rude and a little immature. However, I realize that I have a choice, and I don't have to read it (although I do, since it opens my eyes to ideas and thoughts of Air Force pilots that I never thought were possible. And of course, I do learn from the genuinely informative posts.)

I don't live in a fairy-tale world, so I respect and appreciate you guys being up front and honest...but I do think it gets out of hand.

I have said before that I agree that it's stupid to pretend you know your husband's job if you don't. And it's even more stupid to talk about how your husband got "screwed over" without knowing 100% of the issue. But....

Notice how every single one of you thinks your wife is the coolest because she doesn't talk shop? Could it be that we are blind to our own spouse's gossip and shop talk? If not, than there's a pretty good percentage of AF pilots who have "awesome wives" who don't talk shop- which means there is small percentage of wives that do, in which case, maybe there isn't really a need for a topic like this?

[zrooster99]

If not, than there's a pretty good percentage of AF pilots who have "awesome wives" who don't talk shop- which means there is small percentage of wives that do, in which case, maybe there isn't really a need for a topic like this?

It's always the bad apples...I'm willing to bet that what you said is pretty accurate, but as usual it's the 10% that are bad that get the attention...just like USAFA grads--we all get a bad rap for the 10% that are ass holes.

I think the point, not to put words in anyone's mouth, is to illustrate why someone's spouse behaving in such a manner is a bad thing...I think maybe the thread has degenerated though...

[Guest flychick]

Point taken

Now I know not to put on a bake sale! Just kidding. But it does help, as a wife, to know what annoys the guys! ;) I'm pretty sure any wife could get caught up in the gossip since UPT is your husband's LIFE during that time. But there's a difference between being involved in your husband's career, and letting everyone and their dog know about it.

[Guest croftfam]

I'm sorry, but what's rude about posting horror stories? We all concede that it's the vocal minority that we're talking about. Don't take this as wife bashing, but do take it as a great tool to learn what not to act like. A pilot should never correct some other dude's wife, but another wife should not have that same problem IMHO. Look at it this way, if you hear the crap, tell them you don't want to listen. I understand that is a little extreme, but you get the idea.

Don't be so sensitive! I'm sure you are a great wife. One other thing the problematic wives (only 10% or less of the wives) at UPT aren't that big a deal. It's the times when you're at a post FTU squadron that it can become really annoying. Also, (and I don't mean this in a mean way) isn't this NOT the spouses forum? Not that you're input isn't welcome in here, but you definitely shouldn't be offended by what is said in this forum.

I love my wife, and most of my buddies' wives are way cool too. Here's to the good ones!

[Toro]

Originally posted by flychick:

Didn't it start out "let's tell horror stories of annoying wives who talk shop?"

Are you kidding me? Go back and read the first post again - my exact statement was

I'd like to open this thread for flyers to not bash on wives 'shop talk', but to give specific examples of when it has happened and why it is not a good thing....I ask right now that we refrain from name calling and mud slinging. Let's try to keep this somewhat professional

Originally posted by flychick:

which means there is small percentage of wives that do, in which case, maybe there isn't really a need for a topic like this?

If this thread has made just one wife 'see the light', then it's worth it.

[Guest SuperStallionIP]

ScubaGirl in ATL,

Sweetheart, would you please go purchase a sense of humor. The comment was not intended to hurt your feelings in anyway, so I apologize if it did. I like to throw out things to lighten the mood. We should never take ourselves too seriously here. Come on now. I know I can be a chauvanist (check spelling) pig sometimes. That's OK because that's just me. If I am called an asshole, I take it as a compliment. Please don't question my maturity either. Spend 21 months in a 36 month period between Afghanistan (7 months) and Iraq (6 months & 8 months) living and flying in extremely shitty conditions but still accomplishing the mission. I earned my wings a while ago and I've been there and done that numerous times since. If you can't take a little fun, then STFU and get off the forum. Good day, my dear.

BigIron

[Guest edwarkl]

BigIron:

You started off so nice in your post and then at the end.....

Like I said, it seems like there is a lot of wife bashing around here. I will the be the first to raise my hand and say that I get defensive about it.

Unfortunantly some guys truly feel that way about women, and it gets old after a while. I'm not one to argue though, and this is the reason that I hate posting.

I also will apologize if you felt that I questioned your accomplishments. I know nothing about you except for the comment that you made, and you know my reaction to that.