Army to AF Transfer (Green to Blue)

[Guest Ghostrider13]

Hello to my Air Force brothers! I'm currently an AH-64D pilot over here in northern Iraq. I've got about two and half years left on my obligation and and have some questions about a possible life with the Air force, active or guard. Oh yea, I am a Warrant Officer. I will have 1000+ hours and my degree will be finished. I will be 31 with eleven years active time as well as attending the JFCC. What's the best way to go? A job flying helicopters or fixed wing is fine and so is guard or active, although, active is preferred. The "Longbow" has got all the bells and whistles with all the avionics and dual laser gyros, etc. About 300+ will be combat time and wonder if any of this would help me or are all the warrant options being reduced to zero? Thanks for any info!

ATTACK!

[Guest C-21 Pilot]

First off, thanks for the service in the region.

As fas as I know, the Air Force is no longer taking interservice transfers, at least that's the vibe that I got when I read about it on AFPC. Any ANG unit would be wrong in not hiring you with your experience, but as you know, in the AF, only the officers fly, therefore, you'll have to go to OTS or AMS. Again, I'm not to all familiar about the entire process, but you get the picture.

There are a few folks who I went to pilot training with who were prior Army flyers (Apache and Blackhawk) who got picked up by AF Guard/Reserve units. One was a C-5 to Westover, Mass, and the other was in the NY ANG flying the herk. If you want, I can get in contact with them to get you some POC's for their respective units.

I know that Baseops.net offers a few states ANG/AFR that are hiring, so I would suggest start networking with those units, most of which are fixed wing.

Also, while in college, I did an internship with a local Police Dept...that might be an option as well if you can find some that are hiring.

-Cheers, and we'll be seeing you in Iraq in Jan if you're around.

[Guest daroldcc]

I have been trying to find out the same thing. I am prior AF (enlisted) and went to the Army to fly. This is what I have been told by a couple of units although I have heard other information. The AF does not recognize Army wings. Even if you went to the Army fixed wing school, it will not count. They only recognized AF or Nav UPT. This is probably because they fly fixed wing first before they (or if) they go helo. They said you would have to go to flight school and the age limit of 30. I got e-mails back saying I could be an Air Liason officer (ground troop) or other positions that are rated, but not be a pilot. They also are staying away from Army pilots for now. I know that many of you are like me and are too old for the Air Force. You are joining the Amry to fly and in the future, maybe, just maybe, you can transfer. Well you have got one heck of a fight on your hand. Nevertheless, I was told that I could not fly Army because I was past 30 and I got the waiver.

My personal opinion is that this is not going to change for a while considering there are so many pilots that have been laid off after 9/11. This is going to have to change first because right now, talent pool is so big. The other thing that works for us old folks who went the Army route to fly is that deployments are up. Many will leave. That should leave slots galore. If I were the Army right now, I would be snatching up pilots left and right.

Therefore, this is a waiting game. You may have to stay in the Army for a little longer, but the door will open, I can feel it, and it is going to open up wide.

[Guest rotorhead]

You folks have part of the story right...part incorrect. The USAF certainly does recognize Army wings...If you come to the USAF or AFR or ANG to fly helos, and are currently a basic, senior, or command pilot, you enter the USAF as a basic, senior or command pilot after an Aeronautical Review Board (one guy at a MAJCOM) looks at your history. If you went to AF UPT, you can wear your USAF wings as a student(which does look odd). If you want to fly starch wings in the USAF, AFR or ANG, then YES, you do need to attend the stiff-wing course, because the USAF does not recognize the Army starch wing training. If you want to go to UPT, there is an age limit. If you want to go USAF, AFR, or ANG, and fly helos, there is no age limit for the flying training (because you are complete with UPT), but there is the age limit to send you to OTS.

[Guest daroldcc]

Rotorhead. That is what we (or at least me)where asking (can we go to the AF and fly fixed wing). I know we can fly helo's because the Air Force pilots are trained by the Army. My goal was to eventually transfer to the ANG or AFR, but there are not a lot of units with Helo's. When you say there is no age limit if you go to flight training for Helo's, what kind of course is that since you can't attend UPT? Also, isn't is funny that most of these branches have no age restrictions on applying for a pilot, just on going to flight school. Is that some kind of legal issue?

[pirate]

I was an active Army officer (non-aviation). I left the Army about 1 1/2 yrs ago, and just recently graduated UPT. The way it worked out for me was to contact an AFRes recruiter while I was still active Army he helped me get all the paperwork in order. I also called every unit I was interested in joining. I got an interveiw and was selected by a unit. When my ADSO came up I went to the Army reserve; I spent about 3 months in the Army reserve and then transfered to the AFRes. The reason for going to the Army reserve was to keep all my paperwork local. If you get out and do not go to an Army reseve unit all your personnel files get shipped to St. Louis which makes accomplishing the inter service transfer harder. I found a non-deployable Army reserve unit before I left the active duty; I spoke to the BC and asked if they would be supportive of a posible inter service transfer.

There is an Army regulation dedicated to inter service transfers; it pretty much spells out what you have to do.

While at UPT I ran into 2 other guys who did the same thing I did. 1 was acually an AV officer who was at UPT because the fixed wing transition course was backed up a year or so. He decided he would rather go through the whole thing rather than wait.

Pobably a lot more than you wanted.

If you have any questions fire away.

[Guest mrringgoestohell]

I'm kind of in the same boat as CPT Merritt, only I'm still a 2LT (and amazingly, I'm out of flight school; also, stationed at Ft. Wainwright, getting ready to deploy to OIF 3). Ideally, I would like to fly fighters in the Air Force, active duty, once I've served my committment to the Army. Why? I've always wanted to be a fighter pilot (just like everyone else, I know), and being active duty means I will be able to be stationed OCONUS frequently. I love flying, and I love travelling the world, and I can't think of a better way than to get paid to do it.

I've seen quite a few posts about ANG/Reserve units, but I don't think I've seen anything about going active duty. I also read something, but I can't find it now, about the Air Force not letting utility guys get fighter slots. Does anyone have a few cents to drop on those two issues?

Also, any fighter pilots want to chime in on what their job is like? Consensus among us LTs and junior CPTs in the Army seems to be that we work too hard, too long, and don't get to fly nearly enough, but few are willing to give up their O-3 pay to revert to warrant and stay in the Army.

I'm also curious as to what my future would look like in the Air Force. I've been considering staying in the Army and going to grad school and trying to get into Naval Test Pilot School and the Army Astronaut Program (3.87 GPA in Mechanical Engineering, Aerospace Systems from USMA; National Finalist for the Hertz Fellowship; 1390 GRE score), and I was wondering if that would be a possibility in the Air Force as well.

Finally, what can I do now to improve my chances? My current plans are to take courses online with Embry Riddle to get an Airframe and Powerplant Maintenance Certificate, mostly to round out my degree (I took more semesters of English at West Point than in Aero), and to get my private fixed wing license. I've also been going to the simulator frequently. I got about 10 hours of extra sim time at Rucker, and I've gotten 12 extra hours in the past 3 months up here.

Sorry for the ponderous essay. I would greatly appreciate any tips. I know of several others who are interested as well. I think the Air Force could probably get half their pilots from the Army if they wanted. Thanks again for any help.

[Guest shaneman250]

Okay,

I'm sure this has been asked, but I'm an active army CW2 (UH-60 Pilot), interested in flying fixed wing for the Air Force. I have 5 years left on my ADSO, and I will turn 30 that year. I do not yet have a degree, but I just sent all of my records off to ERAU to see what they will give me creditwise, and I have plenty of time to knock out that degree.

My questions are:

Is it even possible?

How far out from the end of my contract should I start the application process?

As I understand it, a WO would get his commission through OTS, correct?

If selected, where would I start if I wanted fixed wing?

Do all Air force officers have to command, or do you have a career track (Maint., Instructor, etc.)

Can an AF recruiter answer all of these questions (truthfully)? Army recruiters get no credit for recruiting officers, and often don't know the answer to your questions, and often will give you bad advice. (I was swayed into enlisting initially) Is this the same way with AF recruiters?

Does anyone know the name and phone no. of an AF recruiter who is a subject-matter-expert on interservice transfers?

I'm sorry to ask these questions that you've probably answered many-a-times before, but it is really hard to find this info, and all that I know about the Air Force is all rumor and speculation from all of my crusty, grumpy, WO buddies (I love 'em). Rotorhead has answered many of them through his other posts, but I can't seem to find an archive of someone in the same situation as I am. Help would be much appreciated, I also have about 100 other questions, but I'll wait on those. Thanks guys!

[ 21. August 2005, 17:38: Message edited by: 153d ]

[Guest shaneman250]

Originally posted by ENJJPTorBust:

Maybe I'm missing something big here, but don't you have to be an officer to fly? More importantly, don't you have to have a degree before you can commission as an officer...whether it be through ROTC or OTS? Maybe being an Army CW2 isn't a pilot (if that is the case, then my post is pointless), but why would you type UH-60 pilot if you weren't actually the pilot?

*flame suit on*

This is a long post boys, sorry!

Let me clear this up,

Yes, I am a rated aviator, but a warrant officer is different than a commissioned in the sense that, we don't command, we are the "technical experts", we fly and have a handful of additional duties. When I am not flying, I am also the company level "Aviation Life Support Officer", basically responsible for maintaining the ALSE program. (I'm not sure what you guys call it, but I'm talkin' flight equipment maint.) I'm in charge of that shop, and 2 ALSE technicians, that is the extent of my "command".

After making CW2, most WO's will track maint. test pilot, Instructor Pilot, Safety, or TACOPS. It is not a requirement to have a degree to be a WO, but if you ever want to see CW3, it is becoming a requirement. I applied as an enlisted commo guy with 2.5 years in service, god only knows how I got selected! Back to the point, I intend to track IP, hopefully going to that school late '06 to early '07.

Commissioned officers (For the sake of simplicity, we'll call them "RLO's") in the branch fill command slots and staff positions in between. They don't fly much at all, except when in command. When in staff, they meet the flying hour minimums, and that ain't much. If they don't make Pilot-in-command in their first 6 years, they probably won't make it at all. Most do not make it, because they have to focus on their "secondary job" too much to study.

Hope that helps enjj.

Bobby, good luck with your packet, if you have any questions, or need advice, I would be happy to help. I've heard rumor that the army will do away with warrant officers in the near future, I just hope that isn't true. So far I have seen no changes in that direction, except for the branch insignia we now wear as of last Aug. BTW, what do you want to fly?

Thanks for the advice Jester, and you are correct, WO's fly until they are too old to do so, or they get a DUI. jk

Rotorhead, I will call him tomorrow! I searched your posts, but did not get the results I was looking for. Then I read through every topic back to pg 23, and found some good stuff from way back. Thanks for the advice, and thanks for not flaming me for being the 45th person to ask.

Okay, a few more questions, while I have you all here, what is it like being a AF pilot? Is it similar to what I explained about a day in my life? How many hours do you guys rake in a year?

Once again, sorry for the barrage of questions, but you understand, right???!! (I have more, I'm just pacing myself) Thanks for being a great resource fellas, I'm putting this board in my favorites, and naming it "Plan B"

P.S. RLO = REAL LIVE OFFICER! :D

[alwyn2d]

With 5 yrs remaining in Army green, AF policy could change many times between now and then. As it stands now, here is what's required. Firstly, as you know, you must have a 4 yr degree without fail. No exceptions since 1962. Secondly, you must attend OTS for AF commissioning purposes. A 12 week charm course at Maxwell AFB, Montgomery Alabama, approximately 90 miles north of Ft Rucker. The max age for OTS is 34 yrs old as of today. Being selected for OTS will be your hardest hurtle. There are approx 100-150 AF pilot slots per year for OTS. That averages 2 or 3 per state per year. That's why the AF can be very selective. They could meet their numbers by requiring Ph.Ds if they wanted.

In regard to your AF flying career, you will more than likely able to select fixed wing a/c since they out number helicopters 20 to 1. You should be able to stay in a flying billet since you'll be able to retire at 20 yrs with only 13 yrs of AF service. If your goal is only 20 yrs, you'll retire as a Major and there will be little chance of command opportunities. In the AF, most pilot command positions start at the Lt Col level. AF pilot cmdrs are well groomed in the art of flying. They will have been IPs, Flt examiners, Safety officers and some of the best sticks in the squadron. And when it comes to going in harms way, the sq cmdr are expected to lead from the front, not like your army cmdrs.

If you're able to make the transfer, you'll find out quite quickly that the AF is extremely serious about the flying profession. AF may seem like a laid back operation but not in the flying business. The AF has an exchange program with the Navy/Marines for pilot training and the naval service always complains on how rigid and demanding the AF program is. The AF will always be run by rated personnel. You'll never see non rated officers calling the shots. Doesn't happen in the AF. No two piece flt suits, no WAR paint and it's quite ok to strut around in your flt suit. AF is rich in history, aviation bonuses, per diem and crew rest :)

I made the transfer back in the 70s, and it was the best decision for me. Each service has its pecking order and in the AF, aviators are on the top of the heep. Why not, we are the tip of the sword.

[Guest shaneman250]

alwyn2d,

Thanks for the info, what you explained about AF aviation is a big relief! In the Army, you're a soldier first, officer second, aviator third. The three individuals in my unit that I am most afraid to fly with are the two platoon leaders (LT's), and the company CDR (CPT).

It sounds as if being an aviator is much more serious business in the AF, and that's what I had hoped for. I'd say 60% of the pilots in army aviation did not get the "Flying bug" implanted at an early age, and they're just not very passionate about flying. It's really not thier fault, and I'm not trying to dog them out, but the army places emphasis on the wrong things all together. They don't care about aviator academics until you bust a checkride or fail a no-notice written. They don't care about crew rest until you ball up an aircraft.

Once again, I'm not trying to dog out the army, but we support ground command. Things are a lot different on the flightline as opposed to the motorpool, but that "grunt" influence is always there. I was interested in the AF because it seems as though they take flying much more seriously, and you've just confirmed that, so I think I'll give it a shot. Thanks again.

[ 22. August 2005, 14:42: Message edited by: 153d ]

[Guest ArmyEng]

Good Evening, Dudes in blue, I discovered this this site seemingly at the right moment in my military career. I just seperated from the US Army and would like to get some info and advice, I was an Engineering Officer in the US Army for 3 years, and I enjoyed it tremendously. However my presence here is saying it all, I want into the blue. Some background info, I currently have my B.S.,M.S. and Ph.D degrees,(Aerospace Engineering, Civil Engineering, and Applied Mathematics) I am 28 years old and have about 205 flight hours. I realize that the AF is currently going through "force shaping" and that pilot slots are slim, but what would be my course of action to pursue. I always wanted into the AF, however at the time I went into the military, I was in tremendous debt, some of it living above my means and some educational loans. I realize that time is short for me, as my age makes me less appealing. But do I have a shot or what? Thanks in advance!

[ 22. January 2006, 00:08: Message edited by: ArmyEng ]

[Guest 60flyer]

APPLY!! Let Big Blue tell you no, not a recruiter. They may give you time towards your prior service time. I've heard some guard units allowed prior service guys up to 30yrs. Also apply to the Army as a Commissioned guy and you should have no problems later getting into the Guard/Reserves. Active duty may be out on the AF side, but who knows. It sounds like you're set for good civilian jobs, so the Guard/Reserve may be better anyway if you want to keep current on the engineering stuff because you certainly won't use it on the active duty pilot side.

[Guest omahajeepman]

The age is 30 to enter UPT. It is not 28.5 or up to 30...

IT is 30. You have time. Apply, talk to your locate Officer Recuriter ASAP, I am just assuming right now that you would have to apply through the OTS route. It is a long process there are two upcoming boards that if you got moving on the process.

Check out this site for more specifics on OTS.

https://www.airforceots.com/portal/modules.php?name=Forums

[Guest aevans9]

Recently there has been some extensive discussions on the possibility of AF Soldiers and Officers transferring into the Army.

I'm curious as to how the process works if someone wants to do it in reverse. I fly RC-12s for the Army - certainly not a bad gig considering what some of my brethren are having to deal with out in the rotary wing world. The problem is not the assignment, it's the OPTEMPO. These 1 year deployments are destroying families, ruining morale in the Army at large, and making recruiting efforts much more difficult. I enjoy being in the military, but if my future in the Army includes one year deployed for every year I spend at home, I'm not sure how long I can sustain that and hope to keep a normal, functioning and happy family life.

The Army pilots I work with spend a lot of time talking about what life must be like in the Air Force. Of course, we really have no idea what it's really like there. It seems that the 'grass is greener' but I don't think it's fair to make that assessment until we have experienced both worlds.

Ok, let me get to the point. When I finish my intial obligation in the Army (another couple years), I would like to continue flying in the military, but I would like fly in the Air Force instead.

I will leave the Army as a Captain with about 1500 hours of turbine time. How hard would it be to pick up a slot in the ANG or even Active Duty? I'd be willing to fly anything - no preference really. I realize that I would have to go through UPT.

I have a great deal of respect for what the AF guys are doing here with their daily missions in and out of Iraq moving people, supplies, etc. I don't mind the deployments, I just don't want to be gone for a year at a time.

Any advice or general suggestions?

[Scooter14]

rotor/RC12,

Our ANG unit just sent an individual to Vance for FWQ training who had the majority of time in the C-12/RC-7.

I spent a lot of time on the phone with the folks at ANG that do the slots, and here's my understanding...

-There's at least 12 FWQ slots out there for the ANG. When I asked about the slots saying we had a candidate, they said "just get us the info, let us worry about the slot."

-Since you went through IERW(?) training, you didn't get spin training like those who went through the Tweet/T-6/T-34, so you'll do an abbreviated syllabus in the T-6 at Vance before going to the T-1 (mil Beech 400A). The T-1 is the full syllabus, but there are many "blocks" of training, each with about 5-7 rides. If you meet the minimum grades before the end of the block, you can "Proficiency Advance" up to two rides per block. This is entirely your call.

-The T-6 portion can be waived, but I want to say the cutoff was 2000 or 2500 hours. It saves you time in training, but the fixed wingers I knew had a ball flying the Tweet, and I would think the T-6 would be as fun, if not more fun. Free flight time in an aerobatic plane, and the 8FTS typically only flies FWQ guys with experienced instructors (not FAIPS), and keeps you separated from the day to day UPT BS.

-Like Rotorhead said, you will get Air Force wings.

Good luck on the transition. There's a member on the board named Patrick who's at Vance now, and he's pretty knowledgeable on the process, having just gone through it. One thing I have noticed about the FWQ process is that it's "scary" for some units, since it's not a common process. Some places just don't want to deal with it. Be patient, keep looking, present the facts and do some of the legwork and that may help you get to where you want to be.

[Guest holmie]

Hey RC,

Don't dismiss the Army Guard C12 program. Our rotations are around every 4-5 years and for 6 months at a shot. Lots of slots available in the numerous State Flight Detachments maybe some full time AGR gigs too. Just depends on timing. Might have to revert to Warrant but it really is the best job in the Army Guard.

[Guest cubanorz]

Hello,

This is my first time at this website. I'm a 36 year old UH-1 Army Warrant Officer that would like to transition to the Air National Guard or Reserve. I have a B.S. Degree in Professional Aviation and have civilian fixed wing training. Is it possible for me to transfer to the Airforce for a fixed-wing position? I have been told that since I'm a Military Rated Pilot that I could by-pass UPT..... Is it really up to the Unit Commander to waive the age requirement? PLEASE HELP...I've heard so many different things that I don't what to believe. Thank you.

[Guest taft220]

What is the process for an Army pilot (commissioned officer) to transfer to AF (to still fly rotory wing)? I assume its not an easy process since the AF really isn't taking people right now...especially service transfers (so I've heard). Anyway, just thought I'd throw that out there.

Thanks

[Guest rotorhead]

Search for some of my responses to this question, already asked many times.

Short answer: If you want to fly HH-60Gs, you're still going through 5 months at Kirtland, whether AD, ANG, or AFRes. You do not have to go through UPT...you go through 60 school direct. If you want fixed wing, you need fixed wing qual to go to an ARC FW unit if they have a slot available. If they do not have a FWQ slot, they could spend a UPT slot on you. FW in AD is unlikely. It all depends on slot availability. Call the helo manager at AFPC and ask for details.

[Victory103]

Sorry to revive this thread, just looking to see if there are any updates on this. Looking to go the AFRC route and wanted to check on policy changes or updates.

Where can I get my hands on AFRCI 36-3602?

BTW great forum for info, wish the Army had something half as good!

[stract]

not sure if AFRC pubs are there, but start with www.e-publishing.af.mil

Also, the pipeline for Green to Blue is open again (at least on the helo side of the house), in case you know anyone who wants to stay AD. Check out ask.afpc.randolph.af.mil and snoop around a bit. Not sure how much info (if any) is there, but there's contact info for the helo assignments guy and he can at least get you pointed in the right direction.

Edited March 4, 2008 by stract

[Guest fartman38]

After reading some anecdotes of your military lives, I have a question in mind.

I see that many of you flew helos in the Army , then went on to Air Force UPT afterwards. Is that possible and how does this whole concept go? Because I feel flying for the Army would be more 'fun' than AF but the AF would be considered better for the post-military life.

[alwyn2d]

After reading some anecdotes of your military lives, I have a question in mind.

I see that many of you flew helos in the Army , then went on to Air Force UPT afterward. Is that possible and how does this whole concept go? Because I feel flying for the Army would be more 'fun' than AF but the AF would be considered better for the post-military life.

Over the last 40 years or so, there have been literally hundreds of Army pilots that transferred their flying skills to the AF on AD, Res, or ANG. I bet you can count on your right hand with 2 fingers missing on the number of AF pilots that transferred to fly as Army aviators on ACTIVE DUTY. Hint Hint.

In transferring from the Army to the AF as pilots, a few requirements need to be met.

1) Must have a 4 year accredited college degree, no HS grads piloting AF aircraft since 1962.

2) If an Army Warrant Officer aviator, you must attend AF OTS before your 35th B'day (AF does not have anyone serving as Warrant Officers since 1992)

3) If an Army Commissioned Officer aviator, you're unable to attend OTS and must request an Inter service transfer. (Damn near impossible for AF active duty.)

Happy Holidays.

[xcraftllc]

I apologize in advance for the length of this first post, bear with me, I wanted to revive this thread and help to consolidate some of the ideas to clear things up a bit.

Let me start by listing a few "knowns" for the sake of expediency. If anyone has any information either confirming or denying any of this, please post it here with a brief explanation of your source of information or a reference (link, regulation, policy letter, etc.) as to avoid spreading rumors as many of the previous threads have:

-The Air Force Fixed Wing Qualification Course has been cnx due to budget cuts

-Unless you have an age waiver, you must be in UPT by the age of 30

-If you are a Warrant Officer, you must attend OTS

-Army SERE C certificates are valid in the Air Force

-You must have at least a Bachelor’s Degree

-You can transfer your rotary qualifications and bypass UPT if you plan on flying helicopters in the Air Force

-The Air Force does not recognize Army Fixed Wing Qualification

-Even though you're already a rated aviator, it usually takes 6-9 months for a packet to be processed before one can expect to be able to attend any training. It also involves being re-processed at MEPS

Now let me go over some information that I have heard, and would like to have confirmed and expanded on. I'm sure everyone would appreciate links and references to these as well, since the details about these topics are elusive:

-Through the use of a DD Form 368, a service member in the Army can be released from their obligation early in order to transfer to another branch: https://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/120505p.pdf

-The National Guard can grant UPT age waivers up to the age of 33 if certain conditions are met

I think everyone can agree that success stories are always welcome so please post them here. I've met 2 people already who have made this leap, and have gotten as much info from them as I could. I have heard of many others. If hope that at the very least, this first post has helped to save a lot of time for some of those who have just begun to look into the subject.

I suppose it would also be helpful to provide a little info on myself:

I'm currently a CW2 AH-64D Pilot in the Army. I turn 30 in February of 2016, and my current service obligation ends in July of 2017 (hence the extensive amount of research I've had to do on the subject). I will be finished with my degree and AFOQT by the end of this year.

Edited March 11, 2014 by xcraftllc