Army to AF Transfer (Green to Blue)

[kona4breakfast]

I said it that way because an active duty service obligation doesn't really apply to part-timers, but it'd be nice if an ADSO cut both ways.

Looking at AFI 36-2005, table 10.2 covers time in service, but the wording of paragraph 10.1, which covers grade determination, is a little weird, so I was asking to see if anyone else had transferred as a warrant having been an O grade previously.

[JustHangingOut]

5 minutes ago, kona4breakfast said:

I said it that way because an active duty service obligation doesn't really apply to part-timers, but it'd be nice if an ADSO cut both ways.

Looking at AFI 36-2005, table 10.2 covers time in service, but the wording of paragraph 10.1, which covers grade determination, is a little weird, so I was asking to see if anyone else had transferred as a warrant having been an O grade previously.

Gotcha

I read though a few of those blocks in chapter 10 last night and you are right...there is some verbiage that makes it confusing.  Shoot me a pm and i'll hook you up with some info that might help you out.

[Autorotator60]

CW2 UH60 Pilot looking to make the switch. Are Warrants required to go through OTS and take the AFOQT? Where is a good place to start the process? 

[Autorotator60]

Just received an email from the AF Inter-service office, Warrants are not eligible to transfer and was recommended to speak with an AF Officer recruiter.

[CharlieHotel47]

19 minutes ago, Autorotator60 said:

Just received an email from the AF Inter-service office, Warrants are not eligible to transfer and was recommended to speak with an AF Officer recruiter.

Big Blue doesn't have Warrant Officers... I am sure you probably knew that. However, had a fellow 47 bro that went Air Force AD about 5 years ago. He simply applied to the AD board as a prior enlisted and got picked up. Flys C-130s now. He did have to go thru OTS and graduated O1-E prior to going to UPT. 

[Autorotator60]

3 hours ago, CharlieHotel47 said:

Big Blue doesn't have Warrant Officers... I am sure you probably knew that. However, had a fellow 47 bro that went Air Force AD about 5 years ago. He simply applied to the AD board as a prior enlisted and got picked up. Flys C-130s now. He did have to go thru OTS and graduated O1-E prior to going to UPT. 

That is pretty much what I’ve gathered. I’ve scheduled a AFOQT and just have to wait for my ADSO to run out and it’s game on. Hopefully I can make the change with any lapse in service. I have a few calls out to the local recruiters. I should hear something soon. Thank you for your response.

[JustHangingOut]

7 minutes ago, Autorotator60 said:

That is pretty much what I’ve gathered. I’ve scheduled a AFOQT and just have to wait for my ADSO to run out and it’s game on. Hopefully I can make the change with any lapse in service. I have a few calls out to the local recruiters. I should hear something soon. Thank you for your response.

How much time is left on your ADSO? you will need to knock out a few things before you can make a quick turn around like that. Are you applying to Guard/Reserve squadrons or going AD?

[CharlieHotel47]

I second @JustHangingOut there is nothing quick about this process. Specially if you are planning on going guard/reserve. Also, be prepare to be extremely persistent with Recruiters. "Trust, but verify" when dealing with with them. Most of the time, I was able to learn more about the hiring process or rushing by simply cold calling the chief pilot x or y wing/squadron... that's if you are interested in going Guard/Reserves. If your plan is to go AD, PM me and I can put in touch with my hooker friend.

[Autorotator60]

I have just over 18 months left on my ADSO. I’d prefer to make the switch to Active duty but would entertain a AFR/AG. What do you guys expect will be the hurdles that will take the most time? I’m still waiting to hear back from a recruiter.

[CharlieHotel47]

19 minutes ago, Autorotator60 said:

I have just over 18 months left on my ADSO. I’d prefer to make the switch to Active duty but would entertain a AFR/AG. What do you guys expect will be the hurdles that will take the most time? I’m still waiting to hear back from a recruiter.

Big Blue (AD, AFRC, ANG) thinks of us non Air Force rated babies as "bastards" from another branch. Your hours and mil training will have to be validated by whatever component that gains you. In the AFRC and for sure in the ANG, if the a unit likes you they will back you up on whatever waivers or hurdles you'll have to go thru. Simply because you are a prior service rated aviator will not make you a more desirable candidate. Its sad, but I've come to the conclusion that its easier to hire a "off the street" guy over an Army, Navy, USMC Aviator. Nevertheless, it is possible and the folks have done it. While I was rushing AFRC and ANG, I had looked at going AD as my plan LAST. I have the package checklist and the contact info for some folks at Randolph AFB that run the AD AFRC board. The checklist I have is from FY18 so it might have changed a bit.

Also, bet you that the above Recruiter you are talking about probably already forgot to call/email you back. Its not that they don't care or don't know any better. Air Force recruiters are super busy and their are only trained in enlisting folks. They will not come hunt you down to answer all of your questions like recruiters in the Army or Marine Corp. You have to go the extra mile to get you the info you need. Like I mentioned earlier, I had found it more useful to talk to pilots in AD, ANG and AFRC to ask about the hiring process over just talking to a recruiter. Take advantage of the fact that you are in the military already and don't be afraid to "global email" stalked some people. Sounds crazy... but eventually you'll end talking to the person you need to. By cold calling folks instead of relying on a recruiter, I was able to schedule my AFOQT, TBAS, and FC1.

Hope that helps. PM if you have anymore questions. 

Cheers 

[alwyn2d]

CharlieHotel47

Why do you feel the AF looks down on Army aviators whether Warrant or Commission. Army flight training is not similar regarding fixed wing exposure.  The AF recognizes the Army skill set in flying helos  but fixed wing is not the case.  

Why did you decide on going Army aviation over the AF? Since the AF is never in the need for new flight students, Army aviators don't bring much to anything on the fixed wing side of the house. The AF produces approximately 1100-1200 fixed wing pilots annually vs 60-70 helo pilots. If the AF needs additional Helo pilots they know just where to get them.

For those Army aviators selected and attend AF SUPT count your lucky stars.

 

Edited August 14, 2019 by alwyn2d

[CharlieHotel47]

2 hours ago, alwyn2d said:

CharlieHotel47

Why do you feel the AF looks down on Army aviators whether Warrant or Commission. Army flight training is not similar regarding fixed wing exposure.  The AF recognizes the Army skill set in flying helos  but fixed wing is not the case.  

Why did you decide on going Army aviation over the AF? Since the AF is never in the need for new flight students, Army aviators don't bring much to anything on the fixed wing side of the house to the table. AF produces approximately 1100-1200 fixed wing pilots annually vs 60-70 helo pilots. If the AF needs additional Helo pilots they know just where to get them.

 

[alwyn2d]

CharlieHotel47

I'm confused, aren't you the one that stated the AF thinks of your aviators as bastards? I don't. The Army has the best helo drivers. A few years ago, the Thunderbird Slot pilot was even a former Army Reserve UH-60 pilot. 

Edited August 14, 2019 by alwyn2d

[kona4breakfast]

On 8/13/2019 at 1:20 PM, Autorotator60 said:

I have just over 18 months left on my ADSO. I’d prefer to make the switch to Active duty but would entertain a AFR/AG. What do you guys expect will be the hurdles that will take the most time? I’m still waiting to hear back from a recruiter.

You gotta be thirsty with the AF types. Treat it like Tinder: Always Be Closing...

[CharlieHotel47]

7 hours ago, kona4breakfast said:

 Always Be Closing...

by closing do you mean always swipe right? 

[CharlieHotel47]

13 hours ago, alwyn2d said:

CharlieHotel47

I'm confused, aren't you the one that stated the AF thinks of your aviators as bastards? I don't. The Army has the best helo drivers. A few years ago, the Thunderbird Slot pilot was even a former Army Reserve UH-60 pilot. 

bro don't get it twisted and the bastard comment was meant as a joke based on my experience. From what I have encounter so far, it appears to be easier and quicker for an off the street guy to move thru the pipeline over guys with prior military hours/service. I get its important to validate my previous training and for the AF to review and ensure that my up bringing in whatever branch I come from will translate into the AF way of doing things. I am by no means trying to bash on my fellow army helo drivers. I am glad you think so highly of the Army... perhaps you should join them. I have nothing but good things to say about my time as a helo guy both conus and in the good ole Stan. Specially in the Chinook community. Its a wonderful aircraft with lots of power and very maneuverable. Are Army helo drivers the best? sure. Me wanting to move on to the big blue originated from how Army aviation is structured and how army aviation commission officers have their days counted in the seat. I want to be part of an organization that is based around aviation, for aviation, by pilots (big blue)... sure the grass will probably not be greener in the other side. The Army's mission will always be based around the ground force commander. Nothing wrong with that, its just different and not for me. Some other bros would thrive in such environments. I am thankful for my time driving hooks... but as for me, it was time to move on. Hope I was able to un-confuse you. 

Cheers

[alwyn2d]

Meant as a joke, ok. I'm officially un-confused now.  What AF aircraft do you desired if selected for SUPT? Were you a Warrant or Commissioned?  If Commissioned, I assume it's a more difficult in going AD AF vs ANG/Res. Best of luck in reaching your goals.

 

 

[JustHangingOut]

35 minutes ago, alwyn2d said:

Meant as a joke, ok. I'm officially un-confused now.  What AF aircraft do you desired if selected for SUPT? Were you a Warrant or Commissioned?  If Commissioned, I assume it's a more difficult in going AD AF vs ANG/Res. Best of luck in reaching your goals.

 

 

its not more difficult. you basically are the same as an off the street hire in terms of training required (minus a couple items), but with a more paperwork (same paperwork hiring a pilot from any other branch). i had four interviews and two job offers as an already commissioned guy and it's been an awesome change. i know plenty of other former army bros WO and RLO how have been hired from everything from fighters, heavies, and RW. Opportunities are out there for sure.

[CharlieHotel47]

1 hour ago, alwyn2d said:

Meant as a joke, ok. I'm officially un-confused now.  What AF aircraft do you desired if selected for SUPT? Were you a Warrant or Commissioned?  If Commissioned, I assume it's a more difficult in going AD AF vs ANG/Res. Best of luck in reaching your goals.

 

 

I was a Warrant then became an Commission Officer. Should probably go warrant if you intend to fly a lot more and not have to sentence your career away from the cockpit as you progress in the commission officer ranks. I was selected for UPT about a year ago at a KC135 unit. I have seen both WO and RLO make the jump. 

[kona4breakfast]

There's a formal process, easy to find on the public internet, with dedicated personnel to intake off-the-street guys. There's a formal process for ISTs, but no dedicated personnel and it took a lot of google-fu to find the requirements; if you're doing the IST you need to keep pushing things along and making sure your packet doesn't get orphaned, also hopefully you're current unit is helpful. For Os, If you've had a break in service, or are planning to, you're time in grade keep building in the ready reserve and can grenade your chances depending on your current grade. For WOs you have to go to OTS. For Army pilots, you'll be rotary only unless you get hired through a SUPT board (which puts you through the off-the-street process, which, though more extensive, has more support and is a more streamlined process). I was a prior O, current WO, doing an IST. It took a year of phone calls, texts and emails between myself and the boss and the deputy before I got fed up enough (with the Army) to go over there and not leave until I talked to the commander. That was in November. My packet is finally at NGB after extensive delays, mainly unforced, but I can't access the templates and checklists that the HARMs office used to assemble the packet (not that I even knew what HARMs was until 6 weeks after the recruiter sent my info off to the group HARMs office instead of the squadrons and I went over to the squadron to ask what was going on). They also kicked it back immediately because they didn't read past the first page then asked for a bunch 'more' information, which was all already in the packet.

 

If I was smarter I would've at least applied to a SUPT board for the sister Herc squadron and hoped for an age waiver, but if I was smarter I wouldn't have gone to the academy in the first place.

[CharlieHotel47]

Its taken about 13 months for me as well. After constant delays and generally not knowing what the hell whats going on, I started global stalking people and cold calling folks at NGB. Eventually, I found a few of the folks at A1/A6 that were kind to explain to me the process and they why it was taking so long. The HARM office should be your primary point of contact for everything NGB, but if you haven't learned to "trust, but verify" from your Army days of getting F'ed, you should do the same when dealing with admin stuff. 

@kona4breakfast is  your package still at NGB? is it EPT, ARB or A1 accessions that you are waiting on? 

If I was smarter I would have stayed WO and not have gone to the O dark side. You live and you learn. S

[kona4breakfast]

ARB right now. Then I have to do the IST. I'm staying under the same TAG so things should be pretty straightforward after A3 approval, but there's the whole WO=>O DOR/TIG issue that will probably have to get sorted out again as if it's the first time ever.

[Bigred]

I just commissioned today through the IST process. I was an active-reserve type in the Navy (FTS) and flew helos. I’m now on my way to fly the KC-135. 

If you have any questions about the IST process feel free to PM me. It’s not difficult, it just takes a long time. 

[CharlieHotel47]

On 8/16/2019 at 12:09 AM, Bigred said:

I just commissioned today through the IST process. I was an active-reserve type in the Navy (FTS) and flew helos. I’m now on my way to fly the KC-135. 

If you have any questions about the IST process feel free to PM me. It’s not difficult, it just takes a long time. 

@bigred did you go to school in Charleston? If so, great name and congrats on the tanker slot. Since I am a dirty army helo guy, I'll have to make it thru UPT before setting foot at Altus.

[CharlieHotel47]

On 8/15/2019 at 8:41 PM, kona4breakfast said:

ARB right now. Then I have to do the IST. I'm staying under the same TAG so things should be pretty straightforward after A3 approval, but there's the whole WO=>O DOR/TIG issue that will probably have to get sorted out again as if it's the first time ever.

Stay motivated bro... eventually A3 will get back from Vacation and resume package reviews. 6 to 9 months is what I have seen as the average turn around time for approval.