Army to AF Transfer (Green to Blue)

[JustHangingOut]

I recently saw a picture of an Army pilot went green to blue.  His name patch on his pickle suit had Army and Air Force Wings on it.  Do they still allow this?

Edited October 18, 2017 by JustHangingOut

[ackc]

1 hour ago, JustHangingOut said:

I recently saw a picture of an Army pilot went green to blue.  His name patch on his pickle suit had Army and Air Force Wings on it.  Do they still allow this?

Yeah, dude, they totally do. The ALO that was assigned to my BDE in the Army was an A10 guy who flew helos in the Army as a warrant. He wore both his Army and Air Force wings on his uniform. The Air Force wings were obviously on top, but he wore both of them. 

Also, my buddy is close to finishing UPT now, and he’s an Army guy with Army wings on his flight suit, until he gets his Air Force wings, and then he’ll wear both. It’s like wearing Airborne wings underneath your pilot wings.

[JustHangingOut]

9 minutes ago, ackc said:

Yeah, dude, they totally do. The ALO that was assigned to my BDE in the Army was an A10 guy who flew helos in the Army as a warrant. He wore both his Army and Air Force wings on his uniform. The Air Force wings were obviously on top, but he wore both of them. 

Also, my buddy is close to finishing UPT now, and he’s an Army guy with Army wings on his flight suit, until he gets his Air Force wings, and then he’ll wear both. It’s like wearing Airborne wings underneath your pilot wings.

That's awesome.

I look forward to sporting both wings once I get picked up by a unit.

[ackc]

11 hours ago, Termy said:

Can I wear both my air assault and airborne wings with my pilot wings? Thanks for researching!

No problem! I did the research because I don’t want to look like a jackass switching uniforms since the Army and Air Force have different regulations, so I’ve looked at them pretty closely. 

You can definitely wear all three on your ABUs, the reg just states that you can only wear two badges above your usaf tape, and the third would be worn centered on the pocket below the usaf tape. If you had a fourth, you could wear that above your nametape, but I don’t think I’ve seen anyone but pararescue guys have more than 3 badges. 

As far as the nametag on the flight suit is concerned, the regulation just says you have to wear your aeronautical rating badge at a minimum. It doesn’t put a limit on how many badges you can wear on it. I suppose you could wear all three, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen that with pilot wings. I DID see a picture of a guy at UPT in a flight suit with HALO, Airborne, and Scuba all on his nametag, so I guess it’s possible, just probably not commonly done.

 I was confused about that very thing myself, because the Army issues badges like it’s cool, so I already have 3 coming from the Army, and that doesn’t include the Ranger tab, so I’m not sure if I’m allowed to wear them, even looking at the regulation.

I guess to be safe, you could just stick with no more than 2 badges like the ABU mandates, but I don’t know. You could definitely give it a shot!

[Champ Kind]

I think you'll find that most people in AF flying squadrons won't care about wearing badges/tabs either way unless you come across as a tool about it.

[ackc]

8 hours ago, Champ Kind said:

I think you'll find that most people in AF flying squadrons won't care about wearing badges/tabs either way unless you come across as a tool about it.

Thanks! I appreciate the advice. I always try and fall back on, “be a good dude,” whenever I’m in doubt about something in most walks of life. 

I reckon flying well and being a good wingman is more important than whatever badges or stuff one would be wearing anyway. 

[xcraftllc]

On 10/18/2017 at 8:50 AM, JustHangingOut said:

I recently saw a picture of an Army pilot went green to blue.  His name patch on his pickle suit had Army and Air Force Wings on it.  Do they still allow this?

In short it's all perfectly legal, but here's my advice:

I've seen some prior Navy and non-rated crewmember guys wearing both and it kinda looks dumb, the AF guys call any double wing wearer a "Dragonfly". I've seen some prior Navy and Marine guys wear AF wings mon-thurs and then their Navy wings with their callsign patch on Friday, which I think is a much more tactful way of doing things. I spoke to a pretty chill wing commander fighter type at my B-Course and he basically recommended waiting until I was officially named and then get Army wings on my callsign name tape if I want like the Navy guys do.

In UPT I started with nothing and then wore my Army wings on my student name-tape after my flight commander said that I should. I then wore my AF wings once they were earned with no other wings (the couple other Army guys I knew there did the same). I originally had my AF wings with my CAB but it looks kinda funky and no one has any idea what a CAB is. I wore Army wings on my blues and dress mess along with my CAB before I graduated, and then at graduation I had my mom take my Army ones off and my wife put my Air Force ones on. I think the dragonfly thing looks kinda dumb.

You can wear airborne if you want but people are gonna assume that your just an Academy guy who's proud of his 5 jumps from a Cessna. My advice would be to play the humble card on that and just wear it on your blues, and then when they say you never told them that you were a zoomy you can explain the Army Airborne school process.

[omar2006]

I lurk on this thread occasionally and was wondering about this AF pilot shortage I have read about. I am a 32 year old Center Controller with the FAA and was/am a commissioned Black Hawk driver with 900 hours. Now in the IRR. Anyone with knowledge know if units are accepting age waivers?

[xcraftllc]

 

1 hour ago, omar2006 said:

I lurk on this thread occasionally and was wondering about this AF pilot shortage I have read about. I am a 32 year old Center Controller with the FAA and was/am a commissioned Black Hawk driver with 900 hours. Now in the IRR. Anyone with knowledge know if units are accepting age waivers?

A lot of Guard tanker units are working with situations like that right now. That's probably your best bet.

[BashiChuni]

2 hours ago, omar2006 said:

I lurk on this thread occasionally and was wondering about this AF pilot shortage I have read about. I am a 32 year old Center Controller with the FAA and was/am a commissioned Black Hawk driver with 900 hours. Now in the IRR. Anyone with knowledge know if units are accepting age waivers?

Don’t yall make big $$$ as controllers? I’d stay doing that and retire at 55

[Pork Barrel]

I have a few Navy friends and they don't seem to be having a pilot shortage, despite being even more jaded and what sounds like even lower promotion rates for fliers. So why isn't A1 looking at Blue to different Blue?

[pilot]

ackc PM sent. another former army dude here switching to the blue.

[Blue1316]

I am so glad I found this thread. I am currently serving as an Infantry officer at Ft. Riley. I have always been interested in flying so I decided to get my private pilots license and completed my training last summer. During my flight training, I realized how much I love flying and decided that I want to have a career flying planes whether that is in the military or civilian sector. However, I want to serve a career in the military so I have been looking into switching to the Air Force, or the AF reserves, to try and get a pilots slot. However, it's not possible to do a service Transfer mid contract (that I know of), so I plan on finishing my contract to the Army and then try and switch once I get out. The problem is I will be 29 and 5 months at the earliest I could get out which would put me at a critical age or disqualify me completely if there is no possibility of getting an age waiver. I want to know if what I want to do is possible? If it is, what could I be doing now to strengthen my chances of accomplishing this. I can't get out till May of 2021, so I have time to get an instrument rating or a masters. Is what I want to do only possible through the reserves? I would be happy doing anything as long as I have the chance to fly. I know some people want to fly fighters and that's it, but I would love the opportunity to fly bombers, cargo, or fuelers. Anything that would let me fly a plane. Let me know what y'all think. 

[JustHangingOut]

On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 10:44 AM, Blue1316 said:

I am so glad I found this thread. I am currently serving as an Infantry officer at Ft. Riley. I have always been interested in flying so I decided to get my private pilots license and completed my training last summer. During my flight training, I realized how much I love flying and decided that I want to have a career flying planes whether that is in the military or civilian sector. However, I want to serve a career in the military so I have been looking into switching to the Air Force, or the AF reserves, to try and get a pilots slot. However, it's not possible to do a service Transfer mid contract (that I know of), so I plan on finishing my contract to the Army and then try and switch once I get out. The problem is I will be 29 and 5 months at the earliest I could get out which would put me at a critical age or disqualify me completely if there is no possibility of getting an age waiver. I want to know if what I want to do is possible? If it is, what could I be doing now to strengthen my chances of accomplishing this. I can't get out till May of 2021, so I have time to get an instrument rating or a masters. Is what I want to do only possible through the reserves? I would be happy doing anything as long as I have the chance to fly. I know some people want to fly fighters and that's it, but I would love the opportunity to fly bombers, cargo, or fuelers. Anything that would let me fly a plane. Let me know what y'all think. 

Refer to DoD Instruction 1205.05, 1300.04, and 1304.25 for references on transferring within your commitment.

It is possible if they are willing to release you.

And yes, it is possible to get an age waiver.  I am working through one right now for the unit that selected me.  I am not AD however, I am going from Army Guard to Air Guard.  Certain squadrons are more willing to take applicants with age waivers, others wont even consider it.  In short, make them tell you "no" and if they do, there are others out there.

Have you taken the AFOQT and TBAS yet?  If not, get on that immediately.  I would also go ahead and see if you could get an AF flight physical if you can.

Hope this helps!

[Blue1316]

thank you for the post. I looked into those directives. I went to a service academy so I don't think they will release me mid commitment. The only thing I feel like I would have going for me is the fact that the AF needs pilots, and the Army is not hurting for infantrymen from what I saw most recently. I haven't taken the AFOQT or the TBAS yet. I am gonna study for that and schedule an exam. That way I can see if I would even qualify. however, since it doesn't seem likely that I would be able to switch mid contract, I don't know if I would be able to get a pilot slot because of my age when I get out. 

[xcraftllc]

So you're only about 27 now? How far into your ADSO from West Point are you, 3 years? It looks like if you were to start talking to guard and reserve units about one year out from your release, then you should be fine to get out and report to UPT ASAP before you turn 30 (I reported 4 days before my 30th birthday!) It's a long shot but as you get closer and you find out you need to get out a bit early, a short polite email to the J-1's office (currently Brig Gen Margret Burcham https://www.jcs.mil/Directorates/J1|ManpowerandPersonnel.aspx) regarding your situation may be warranted, simply mentioning that the AF is short pilots and you would like to transfer ASAP, that could maybe trigger the office to talk to the Army's manpower and reserve affairs office to let you get out early. That's how I managed to get out in time to start flight school without a waiver but it was already after I was told I was accepted by a guard unit so I had a statement from them that I sent up along with my request, and that probably helped build my case. Doing anything like that now would probably be putting the cart before the horse. I managed to get 2 years off of my Army flight school ADSO, and I know another guy who got 1 year off of his but man that's rare, and I think the J-1 email and the fact that a unit was already willing to hire me made the case. I was also going to be 31 if I had to wait for my ADSO to end, and you'll only be 29.5 and won't even have to go to OTS first so they might not care and tell you to just wait and let the AF figure out how to get you into UPT in time.

Definitely take those tests sooner than later. I'm not 100% sure what the differences might be for someone who is already commissioned, but as as Warrant I had to take both of those tests in order to go to OTS. Not sure if you don't have to if you're already commissioned but they get pilot aptitude scores from both of them so I'd imagine you would still need to take them, if for no other reason than to show a guard or reserve unit's hiring board. They're not too bad but you should definitely get the study guides and take all the practice tests you can and time it. 

I'd say your time is something like:

Take the test and get as high a score as possible, I think they're good for 3 years so be sure to take them at an appropriate time.

Continue to build hours, preferably instrument time.

Volunteer for a full SERE-C course (you're going to hate me for recommending that but it'll help you get hired and get it out of the way nice and early while you're young). It's something you'll have to do anyway if you want to be an AF pilot and it's quality training. I think it has a year ADSO so the sooner the better.

Start talking to guard and reserve units (1-2 years from the end of your ADSO) about your situation and timeline and how they should be able to get you into UPT before you turn 30 if things are set up in advance but you'll probably need a commissioned service waiver (if over 5 years as a commissioned officer at the time of release) but those are easy to get, especially for heavy units.

[omar2006]

So you're only about 27 now? How far into your ADSO from West Point are you, 3 years? It looks like if you were to start talking to guard and reserve units about one year out from your release, then you should be fine to get out and report to UPT ASAP before you turn 30 (I reported 4 days before my 30th birthday!) It's a long shot but as you get closer and you find out you need to get out a bit early, a short polite email to the J-1's office (currently Brig Gen Margret Burcham https://www.jcs.mil/Directorates/J1|ManpowerandPersonnel.aspx) regarding your situation may be warranted, simply mentioning that the AF is short pilots and you would like to transfer ASAP, that could maybe trigger the office to talk to the Army's manpower and reserve affairs office to let you get out early. That's how I managed to get out in time to start flight school without a waiver but it was already after I was told I was accepted by a guard unit so I had a statement from them that I sent up along with my request, and that probably helped build my case. Doing anything like that now would probably be putting the cart before the horse. I managed to get 2 years off of my Army flight school ADSO, and I know another guy who got 1 year off of his but man that's rare, and I think the J-1 email and the fact that a unit was already willing to hire me made the case. I was also going to be 31 if I had to wait for my ADSO to end, and you'll only be 29.5 and won't even have to go to OTS first so they might not care and tell you to just wait and let the AF figure out how to get you into UPT in time.
Definitely take those tests sooner than later. I'm not 100% sure what the differences might be for someone who is already commissioned, but as as Warrant I had to take both of those tests in order to go to OTS. Not sure if you don't have to if you're already commissioned but they get pilot aptitude scores from both of them so I'd imagine you would still need to take them, if for no other reason than to show a guard or reserve unit's hiring board. They're not too bad but you should definitely get the study guides and take all the practice tests you can and time it. 
I'd say your time is something like:
Take the test and get as high a score as possible, I think they're good for 3 years so be sure to take them at an appropriate time.
Continue to build hours, preferably instrument time.
Volunteer for a full SERE-C course (you're going to hate me for recommending that but it'll help you get hired and get it out of the way nice and early while you're young). It's something you'll have to do anyway if you want to be an AF pilot and it's quality training. I think it has a year ADSO so the sooner the better.
Start talking to guard and reserve units (1-2 years from the end of your ADSO) about your situation and timeline and how they should be able to get you into UPT before you turn 30 if things are set up in advance but you'll probably need a commissioned service waiver (if over 5 years as a commissioned officer at the time of release) but those are easy to get, especially for heavy units.

Fantastic post man

[pilot]

On 1/10/2018 at 10:44 AM, Blue1316 said:

I am so glad I found this thread. I am currently serving as an Infantry officer at Ft. Riley. I have always been interested in flying so I decided to get my private pilots license and completed my training last summer. During my flight training, I realized how much I love flying and decided that I want to have a career flying planes whether that is in the military or civilian sector. However, I want to serve a career in the military so I have been looking into switching to the Air Force, or the AF reserves, to try and get a pilots slot. However, it's not possible to do a service Transfer mid contract (that I know of), so I plan on finishing my contract to the Army and then try and switch once I get out. The problem is I will be 29 and 5 months at the earliest I could get out which would put me at a critical age or disqualify me completely if there is no possibility of getting an age waiver. I want to know if what I want to do is possible? If it is, what could I be doing now to strengthen my chances of accomplishing this. I can't get out till May of 2021, so I have time to get an instrument rating or a masters. Is what I want to do only possible through the reserves? I would be happy doing anything as long as I have the chance to fly. I know some people want to fly fighters and that's it, but I would love the opportunity to fly bombers, cargo, or fuelers. Anything that would let me fly a plane. Let me know what y'all think. 

Several WP guys have done it. I met 2 others while I was rushing, one infantry and one engineer. There’s another former infantry WP guy, c/o 2000 or something, flying eagles in the guard. I’ll PM you contact info for a 2013 guy in ranger school rt now who is rushing several units. 

[aggressivelink]

Commissioned Army guy here considering interservice transfer to AF. AH-64 pilot. I have browsed through all the forms and regulations of both services and have found most information out there to be limited, especially regarding an Army rotary wing pilot transferring to become an AF fixed wing pilot. It looks likes there's quite a few guys in this thread that have some experience with the process, so I was wondering:

1) found one mention in an AFI stating the maximum allowed time for previous active duty commissioned service for an incoming UPT student is 5 years (I am currently at 4 years). I read that a couple people in here have either gotten a waiver for this or know someone who did. Can anyone shed light on what the specifics of this process are?

2) I've also read that a few people had or know of someone who got a conditional release for interservice transfer while still having several years remaining on an Army ADSO. I will be 30 by the time my ADSO expires. I wanted to know more about what had to be done (memo's, connections needed, who did you have to speak to?) about transferring before the 1 year out mark, and does anyone know the specifics of getting an age waiver for UPT? Once again I've read that a lot of people have gotten age waivers, but it seems easier said than done.

3) I have recently heard rumors that the AF is planning to go to congress to streamline the interservice transfer process due to their pilot shortage being the most severe. The result would be that the owning service of a pilot wanting to transfer into the AF would not longer have a say in the process. Has anyone else heard about this? I was hoping this would increase the odds of me leaving the Army before my 1 year out mark on my ADSO.

 

I've also reached out to an AF Helo/CSAR assignment officer (though I would prefer a fixed wing AF slot), an officer accessions representative, as well as a regular AF recruiter, but have not received any responses.

[Blue1316]

Hey, been a while since I got on this post. I haven't heard about the Air Force streamlining the service Transfer process, but I am in the process of doing a service Transfer to the Navy because the Air Force is currently only taking service transfers who are currently military pilots. Getting everything done for the gaining service is easy, the hardest thing so far has been HRC. I already have a signed DD368 from my commanding general, just need to have the Army bless off on it once I get a pilot slot from the next aviation board. It will be harder to switch considering you are a pilot though and the Army is hurting for pilots from what I understand. 

Edited April 20, 2018 by Blue1316

[aggressivelink]

39 minutes ago, Blue1316 said:

Hey, been a while since I got on this post. I haven't heard about the Air Force streamlining the service Transfer process, but I am in the process of doing a service Transfer to the Navy because the Air Force is currently only taking service transfers who are currently military pilots. Getting everything done for the gaining service is easy, the hardest thing so far has been HRC. I already have a signed DD368 from my commanding general, just need to have the Army bless off on it once I get a pilot slot from the next aviation board. It will be harder to switch considering you are a pilot though and the Army is hurting for pilots from what I understand. 

Yes, though the Army is primarily concerned about warrant officer retention. Hence why all the bonuses are always for warrants and commissioned are never eligible. Their approach to address any commissioned shortage is upping the promotion rates (my YG was 99.6%) or taking transfers from other Army branches. An aviation officer is just an aviation officer to them, not a pilot. This is why there's been a bunch UH-60 LTs used to fill CH47 platoon leader spots. A 15A or 15B is interchangeable with any other 15A or 15B as far as the Army is concerned.

 

How much time remaining on your ADSO do you have and how hard was it to get a DD368 signed by your chain of command?

[Blue1316]

I have three years left, but I am an infantry officer and we are overstrength right now. The hardest part was just the time. Took about a month but that's pretty short from what I understand. Now it's just on me to get HRC on board with the whole thing which will probably get easier once I get the letter of selection from the Navy if I am accepted in about a month. 

[JustHangingOut]

3 hours ago, Blue1316 said:

Hey, been a while since I got on this post. I haven't heard about the Air Force streamlining the service Transfer process, but I am in the process of doing a service Transfer to the Navy because the Air Force is currently only taking service transfers who are currently military pilots. Getting everything done for the gaining service is easy, the hardest thing so far has been HRC. I already have a signed DD368 from my commanding general, just need to have the Army bless off on it once I get a pilot slot from the next aviation board. It will be harder to switch considering you are a pilot though and the Army is hurting for pilots from what I understand. 

are you applying for active duty?  The Guard/Reserves are open to service transfers of non rated folk

[xcraftllc]

On 3/7/2018 at 11:03 AM, aggressivelink said:

Commissioned Army guy here considering interservice transfer to AF. AH-64 pilot. I have browsed through all the forms and regulations of both services and have found most information out there to be limited, especially regarding an Army rotary wing pilot transferring to become an AF fixed wing pilot. It looks likes there's quite a few guys in this thread that have some experience with the process, so I was wondering:

1) found one mention in an AFI stating the maximum allowed time for previous active duty commissioned service for an incoming UPT student is 5 years (I am currently at 4 years). I read that a couple people in here have either gotten a waiver for this or know someone who did. Can anyone shed light on what the specifics of this process are?

2) I've also read that a few people had or know of someone who got a conditional release for interservice transfer while still having several years remaining on an Army ADSO. I will be 30 by the time my ADSO expires. I wanted to know more about what had to be done (memo's, connections needed, who did you have to speak to?) about transferring before the 1 year out mark, and does anyone know the specifics of getting an age waiver for UPT? Once again I've read that a lot of people have gotten age waivers, but it seems easier said than done.

3) I have recently heard rumors that the AF is planning to go to congress to streamline the interservice transfer process due to their pilot shortage being the most severe. The result would be that the owning service of a pilot wanting to transfer into the AF would not longer have a say in the process. Has anyone else heard about this? I was hoping this would increase the odds of me leaving the Army before my 1 year out mark on my ADSO.

 

I've also reached out to an AF Helo/CSAR assignment officer (though I would prefer a fixed wing AF slot), an officer accessions representative, as well as a regular AF recruiter, but have not received any responses.

In order to get out of an ADSO early you will need a waiver request sent up with your UQR addressed to the "Assistant Secretary of the Army - Department of Manpower and Reserve Affairs." This is completely separate from the conditional release which is what gets you out of your general military obligation to the Army such as IRR etc. The latter is typically signed by the HRC Army Aviation Branch Chief if I remember correctly. (I was confused about that difference for quite a while when I started the process). If you only need 6 months or so to ensure that you get to UPT before 30 it shouldn't be that hard to get. The 5 years of commissioned time doesn't seem to be a hard waiver to get. Not sure about the specifics on that. Age waivers are bit more rare but totally happen, especially if you're a current aviator who just needs a few months. Guard and Reserve fighter units are a bit more reluctant than others but it's always a possibility. As for the commissioned service waiver and age waiver, sorry man but I don't have the details on that. Maybe PM me and I can ask a couple of the guys I know who got them and see if they can help you.

Haven't heard anything about that streamlined process but man I bet the other branches would put up quite a fight.

Edited April 21, 2018 by xcraftllc

[Blue1316]

10 hours ago, JustHangingOut said:

are you applying for active duty?  The Guard/Reserves are open to service transfers of non rated folk

I have to apply for active duty to either service because I still have three years left on my army active duty contract. I couldn't transfer to the reserves until that contract is up. I would like to stay active duty regardless, but if I can't get a service Transfer before the end of my active contract, then I would definately try the reserves or guard to get a pilot slot. Xcraftllc, you did a service Transfer from active to guard correct? Or did you go from active to active?