Safety School (Albuquerque, AMIC)

[ARIs 'R' Us]

Thread bump:

I've been to the one week safety course, and soon might have the option to either move up to wing safety (from the squadron) and go to the crash lab, or go to a different job (any job, not sure which one). I've heard mixed things about getting the so-called "safety stink" from the full course...two questions:

1. Does it really increase a rated guy's chance to deploy throughout his career?

2. Is there a benefit to having it when looking at the airlines/89th/Reserves that offsets #1?

Of course, I probably don't have a choice...but let's pretend I do.

[Herkasaurus]

IP + Safety = 365

It is good for the airline resume, but you may have to pick your poison.

[ThreeHoler]

IP + Safety = 365

False.

In my experience, I have many more deployments from being a KC-10 bubba than a safety dude. Did I deploy once for a wing safety position? Yep, but it is still only about 20% of my total deployed time.

YMMV.

[ViperStud]

Spent 12 years AD and was never close to being threatened by a safety 365. All being an FSO bought me was one TDY of a month for an SIB and probably one or two others that I got out of due to leave, etc. It happens I'm sure, but not to the dudes I know. Certainly not a high PK in the fighter world.

[stract]

if you do get tapped for a SEF deployment, they have in the past attempted to put you at a location with your qual'd aircraft so you can continue to fly. If you are an 11HXX (RW only), you're excluded from consideration for safety deployments since the career field is critically manned and ops tempo is so high. Your MAJCOM manages the safety deployment buckets and tasks wings as appropriate to fill the requirements.

I spent 1 yr as the SQ FSO, 1 yr as WG FSO, 1 yr at new duty station as SQ ADFSO (I was Chief of Training at the time), and 1.5 years as the WG Chief of Flight Safety.

I dig safety. I have done 2 Class A SIBs (one as the Pilot Member, one as Investigating officer) and 2 Class B investigations as SIO. And of course too many to count Class C, D, and E investigations at my wings. If AFSEC was hiring right now on the GS side, I would be there in a heartbeat.

Safety's not for everyone, and I'd ask you not to half-ass it if you do get the stink on you. It's something I care deeply about - I've lost several friends and family members over the years, and almost lost several others.

[Herkasaurus]

False.

In my experience, I have many more deployments from being a KC-10 bubba than a safety dude. Did I deploy once for a wing safety position? Yep, but it is still only about 20% of my total deployed time.

YMMV.

Over generalizing it with my math, but it increases your chances since you fill more of the boxes. Damn near every safety guy I know got hit with a 365. They all had close to the same STRDs as dudes without the safety stink, but they all got popped.

Things are changing slightly since the 365's have "decreased", so maybe this was specific to '09-'14.

[JS]

Definitely good for the airline resume. The Delta/United application website has one of 6 checkboxes (I think) for safety officer. The other ones are for Chief Pilot, DO, check airman, and FAA examiner. Since only three of those boxes apply to military, it would appear that having one of them checked would get you a leg up on the application.

[Cap-10]

I got one 30'ish day trip to OEF as the IO for a class A and a 6 month deployment to OEF to fill Wing Chief of flight safety...not anywhere close to my AEF band/bucket (whatever they called it then).

I was lucky in that my base had my MWS, so I was an attached flyer to whatever squadrons were there at the time.

Cap-10

[mcbush]

Thread revival:

Any ideas on whether completion of a foreign military's FSO course would result in an S- prefix and associated safety stink?

[SurelySerious]

1 hour ago, mcbush said:

Thread revival:

Any ideas on whether completion of a foreign military's FSO course would result in an S- prefix and associated safety stink?

Bangladesh?

[mcbush]

Affirm. Just curious, mostly.

[pawnman]

On 5/30/2015 at 9:58 AM, Herkasaurus said:

Over generalizing it with my math, but it increases your chances since you fill more of the boxes. Damn near every safety guy I know got hit with a 365. They all had close to the same STRDs as dudes without the safety stink, but they all got popped.

 

Things are changing slightly since the 365's have "decreased", so maybe this was specific to '09-'14.

Our flight safety guy just 7-day opted a 365.  And he was a shiny penny type, shoe-in for school and likely a 2-below to Lt Col.  

[di1630]

Thread revival:
Any ideas on whether completion of a foreign military's FSO course would result in an S- prefix and associated safety stink?

Doubt it but maybe if you can make the case it’s usaf quality equivalent which from my experience with foreign nations safety programs vs USAF, they have very little in common other than the name. Bangladesh May be the exception.

[Chuck17]

18 hours ago, pawnman said:

Our flight safety guy just 7-day opted a 365.  And he was a shiny penny type, shoe-in for school and likely a 2-below to Lt Col.  

Not shocking. There's a certain expected attrition with these "opportunities." The real barometer is how many dudes punch instead of take them. I'm betting the USAF has no stats on that... that would be too damaging to report.

Though for expectations management - if you stay long enough, a 365 is going to happen. If you stay, get it over early - if you can.

Chuck

[08Dawg]

On 1/27/2018 at 10:54 AM, Chuck17 said:

Not shocking. There's a certain expected attrition with these "opportunities." The real barometer is how many dudes punch instead of take them. I'm betting the USAF has no stats on that... that would be too damaging to report.

Though for expectations management - if you stay long enough, a 365 is going to happen. If you stay, get it over early - if you can.

Chuck

The real question is....why are 365s still necessary?

[jazzdude]

The real question is....why are 365s still necessary?

Follow up question, how is a 365 an ITDY (Indeterminate length TDY) when the tour length is known (365 days)? Pretty sure there's a system in place for that...It's a remote, short tour, PCS.

[Chuck17]

On 1/28/2018 at 1:44 PM, 08Dawg said:

The real question is....why are 365s still necessary?

Mostly true. The billet Im in could be way less. It wouldn't be as good for continuity, but it would manage. One year gig is not required by any means. Most bases turn at least halfway over in every squadron every 3-6 months anyway... Makes it hell on getting things all the way through to final, closing things out. But it is manageable. Not good, but manageable - which is the name of the game when deployed. If it was easy, it would be too easy. If it was terrible, people would be getting careers damaged or (quell horror) getting fired.

Manageable suck is the best.

Chuck

Edited January 30, 2018 by Chuck17

[Standby]

Which courses tag you with an S prefix and increase your deployment opportunity?

[viper154]

22 minutes ago, Standby said:

Which courses tag you with an S prefix and increase your deployment opportunity?

You need both the two week safety school hands on course in ABQ (looking and wrecks and doing investigations) and the safety admin course (I forgot the name, but it’s more of a how to be safety guy day to day) that is 4 ish days. Mostly done at ABQ but they do road shows every couple weeks. There af.mil site has the schedules 

[bronxbomber252]

You need both the two week safety school hands on course in ABQ (looking and wrecks and doing investigations) and the safety admin course (I forgot the name, but it’s more of a how to be safety guy day to day) that is 4 ish days. Mostly done at ABQ but they do road shows every couple weeks. There af.mil site has the schedules 

Did they change the lengths of the courses recently? When I did it in 2013 the ASPM (aviation safety program manager) course was a week and AMIC (Aviation mishap investigator course) was 3 weeks.

[D-ron]

You are correct. AMIC is 3 weeks ASPM is 1 week. AMIC gives you the S code.

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[Guardian]

Which one allows you to claim you are a safety officer on airline apps? Any of them? To include none of them? What if you are the ground safety motorcycle guy with zero classes? What about only going to the commanders 3 day safety course?

[D-ron]

AMIC is the good one. I've only done airlineapps.com, but the question there is "were you ever a director of safety". As chief of wing flight safety I said yes. I wouldn't say simply going to AMIC would qualify you to answer yes to that question, but it would be good resume fodder, and you would put AMIC in your education section.

Being a flight safety officer was a really cool job and I would do it again even if not for the airline perks. On the other hand, if safety doesn't interest you, I wouldn't do it only for airline perks.

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[D-ron]

One addition, the Chief of Safety course would be good too, if you're an O-5 type looking to be a Chief of Safety.

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