C-21 info

[C-21.Pilot]

I've been out of the C-21 for over 8 years….my info is no good -- just like my screen name.

[ARAMP1]

Anyone have any updated info? What's the legs on that thing? Will/does it make it across the Atlantic or Pacific? Would it be a good choice for a 4000 hour major who will probably be passed over for Lt Col, just wants to fly and would prefer not to wear blues?

[C-21.Pilot]

Anyone have any updated info? What's the legs on that thing? Will/does it make it across the Atlantic or Pacific? Would it be a good choice for a 4000 hour major who will probably be passed over for Lt Col, just wants to fly and would prefer not to wear blues?

I can answer that…MAX legs are about 4.5 hours, to land with your reserve. Anything over 2 hours and you are hurting because of the size of the plane.

It doesn't fly across the pond on a single leg. I've done the Atlantic trip 8-10 times from Ramstein when I was there. Nobody stretches the legs because of the need to land and piss….

Ramstein - Prestwick (About 2 hours)

Prestwick - Keflavik (About 3 hours)

Keflavik - Sonde (about 2.5 hours -- required a special vert (don't know if that is still the case)

Sonde - St John, Bangor (if winds allowed (3 hours))

** At the time, we weren't allowed in the Oceanic Airspace due to our avionics. The routes were called "Blue Spruce Routes". I don't know what the current trend is.

There are also occasional Rota to Azores legs….

C-21's don't fly in the Pacific anymore since they were pulled from Yokota. Still, they had simple legs like we had in Europe.

[ARAMP1]

Wow, would have thought there was a pisser on board. Thanks for the info.

[Butters]

Wow, would have thought there was a pisser on board. Thanks for the info.

It does, I have no idea what he was taliing about. The longest leg I ever flew in the C-21 was 7.5 hours with Costa (BTW Costa, Where you at?). That was from Hickam to Travis with the ferry tank in back. Oh, and we did not have simple legs in the Pacific , if you have not flown C-21s in the Pacifc, you should not talk about flying C-21s in the Pacific. Edited February 12, 2014 by Butters

[Learjetter]

I did a wrong way FL410B430 at long-range cruise from Vandenburg to Maxwell that netted us a 5.2 and we had 986# in the wings at shutdown.

Back in the day...Typically, if you're not a new UPT guy, you'll be a seasoning pilot for a few months, then an AC for half a year, then an IP for two years. The jet is fun to fly (a little cramped) and training out & backs are fun. Missions begin to suck after the first 20-30 sorties. AMC rules are mostly common sense, or completely ridiculous, and tried/tries to kill all the fun, but some remains. If you get a choice, pick Ramstein, COS, BLV, and ADW, in that order. Good luck!

Edit: FL410B430 (non RVSM Class A rules)

Edited February 12, 2014 by Learjetter

[Day Man]

I did a wrong way FL410 at long-range cruise from Vandenburg to Maxwell

What does that mean?

[Techsan]

What does that mean?

I'm not sure either because that's the right altitude for direction of flight. Maybe he meant FL400.

[Day Man]

I'm not sure either because that's the right altitude for direction of flight. Maybe he meant FL400.

glad I'm not the only one...thought I f-ed up my NEODD SWEEVEN!

[Butters]

I'm not sure either because that's the right altitude for direction of flight. Maybe he meant FL400.

Or FL420

[Learjetter]

Back then, due to radar and onboard altimetry inadequacies, you had to have 2000' separation between FLs, and RVSM was in its infancy. So NEODD/SWEVEN didn't always work: FL330 was eastbound, 350 westbound, 370 eastbound, 390 westbound, etc...

So FL410B430 eastbound was "wrong way" and you could ask ATC for the block, spend time at FL410 off oxygen, then go higher and save fuel (but wear the hose).

I'll edit the offending post...

Edit again: spelling is tough

Edited February 12, 2014 by Learjetter

[Shamrock]

C-21's will face another draw down this year. C Springs AD unit closing. All guard except C Spings going/gone, leaving Scott, ADW and Ramstein. AFFSA jets going/gone. 458 AS at Scott is the only traditional Flying Squadron to support the large amount of Base taskers with TRANSCOM, SDDC, and AMC. Lots of extra busy work from that on top of housing the un-fenced FTU within an operational unit. ADW would be nice. Scott and ADW maintain a steady deployment rotation for the desert C-21's and the DV plans billets in the CAOC. As far as promotion goes, don't go to the C-21 world and expect to get DP on your PRF at ADW and Ramstein. ADW is a GSU with no visibility at the WG, and no real WG level jobs/vis. Ramstein has a fairly significant amount of former top 10% MWS types, and the 86 AW is slightly C-130 centric.

Also, with the drawdown, the PFT slots are likely filled for PQP's throughout the rest of the FY, so in the entire AF there may only be one or two (if any) people that will get to go into the C-21 world this year that are not leadership hires.

That being said, the C-21 community is a great place, and will continue to be so as long as the drawdown gets managed well. Really good people, great trips that get you back home every night almost. Incredibly fun jet to fly. If you are over 5'8, the jet may be uncomfortable, so if you have back or knee issues, think twice.