Palace Chase info

[barney]

Does anyone know how long it takes to complete everything from start to finish? At least a rough average?

[HookEmAll]

Does anyone know how long it takes to complete everything from start to finish? At least a rough average?

It took me 8 months to get a job offer that I wanted to take. The paperwork has taken about 6-7 days, since you have to meet with the sq/cc, og, then wg/cc. Once afpc gets it, they say 4-6 weeks.

[Guest Dwight Schrute]

I PC'd after three and half years. With the downsizing going on you have to talk with AFPC to get an idea of your chances, but they will most likely say apply and see what happens. You will piss a few people off, but that early in your career you will not experience any real blow back. I took a bit of a hit; they pulled me from aircraft commander upgrade two weeks prior to my departure. In the long run it actually helped me with pay while I was a bum. A couple of things to keep in mind:

1. If you have some trusted allies in the squadron, let them know your intentions early on. I had a great ADO and some good buddies in flight cc positions that were great to talk with about how I should tread.

2. In the reserves you get a position number. This is all you need to 'guarantee' your spot. Once you are hired and you have this number, you more or less have a contract with your gaining unit. This does not mean that you required to go or that they can't change their minds and pull it from you; it just means a position is saved for you until in their minds you are not going to become a member of their unit. Keeping them informed is as important as keeping your current unit informed.

3. Once you have this you will have some time to mull over your decision, unless you are trying for a unit that has others lined up to get in the door. I was going to Detroit so that was not the case. Certain places (Milwaukee guard, Ft. Smith, Madison, etc.) are over manned, from my basic understanding, and you may be pressed to make your decision sooner than what you are comfortable with. Talk with the chief pilot or commander and setup a time table for when they need to know of your intentions. This will take a lot of stress off of you.

4. Once you put your paper work in the real pain begins. I submitted mine in late May; I found out I was cleared to move to the reserves in October. My wing delayed, mishandled the paperwork, and basically went in direct opposition to the Force Shaping plan set by AFPC. This helped when my paperwork made it to Randolph; I was accepted and found out seven working days after they received it. Isolated incident, but goes to show you everyone's case is different.

5. The most important thing to do is make sure you are 100% ready to get out of AD. I had some good cash set aside and was ready to bum. I still had some very lean months and was only able to pay the bills and eat. I did not have a great deal of desire to remain AD and knew I wanted to leave shortly after my departure from -135 school. My first six months of reserve life was a series of "why" and "what if" questions. Sometimes the grass is greener, sometimes it just looks that way.

I have been a reservist for a year and a half and in no way do I regret my decision. I left my last duty station amicably and have some good friends from my old base. We are BRAC'd to go to Tampa and I am going down there as a full-timer. These are all good things that have happened to me, but it is not always the case. Do your research, analyze your situation, and make an informed decision. Sorry for the novel, peeps. Any questions PM me.

[Guest blue19]

Anyone ever hear of a FAIP palace chasing? Is it even possible? Just tryin to see what my options are and haven't found anything in the forum about that.

Edited July 9, 2007 by blue19

[Guest Dwight Schrute]

Blue,

I have two buddies who did it out of Vance. One was about two years ago and the other was within the last 8 months. PM if you want some more info.

[Fozzy Bear]

Does Palace Chasing affect GI Bill or other money?

[Guest LocoF16]

Does Palace Chasing affect GI Bill or other money?

If things haven't changed in the past five years...if you Palace Chase, you have to have three years of AD service complete to retain your GI Bill eligibility.

[KingHerc]

I palaced Chased out of active duty this past January. I was only 6 months out of the schoolhouse in kirtland when I got it approved and officially had wings for only a year and a hlaf when i finally seperated. PC is a fairly easy process or so I found it to be. How it was explained to me and the way it seems to work is like this. The first thing you need to do before you tell anyone what you are thinking is shop around and find the units you want to go to. Unless you are just desperate to get off of active duty and will take anywhere, find only the units that you would really want to be a part of. after you locate a unit start talking to them and try to get an interview. Once you secure an interview, before you even go out there, this would be the time to let your squadron commander know what you are thinking about and what you would like to do. It usually helps if you have a solid plan before letting your leadership know what you are doing. A commander will be less likely to help if you have no plan.

Anyway after you interview and saying that you get hired on, the paperwork can take as quick as a week or as long as a month to run through your wing. Once it gets signed off by the wing commander and is sent on to AFPC it usually takes about a month for the answer to come back. You have to wait for a board to convene and review your package. From what I was told there is usually a board every month or so. At this point even if you have everyones permission if AFPC feels that you are not worth letting go your package will get denied. I had alot of friends try the same time i did and their packages were all denied. At that point your basically done, just get ready for seperation. Now seems to be a good time to try, AFPC is so frantic over the force shaping that guys are slipping through the cracks. That is how I got out.

My word of advice is just know what you are getting yourself into. You may not like active duty but really look at what the guard and reserves are like. It is a different world. In my case it is a much better world and I am extremely happy with my decision but I also think I got lucky. Just take your time and really look at it.

[Guest 10driver]

I’ve got a similar situation. I’m trying to weigh my options as far as Palace chase, VSP, or stay on AD. I’m very interested in a guard unite close to my home town and all of our family and friends. I’ve contacted them and they may be hiring next spring sometime for a pilot position and have invited me for a drill weekend. Now as far as my situation is concerned, I’ve got 6 years remaining on my ADSC. I’ve been happy on AD so far, that being said, we have been getting hit with 6 month, 1 year deployments quite often lately for non-flying positions, and also been dropping UAVs like hot cakes. I have been an AC for about a year and have 300 PIC/1400 total hours. So I would not have the hours to get a good airline job, but I have a possible hook up at a corporate job. I know the ANG is not the end all beat all, but for a guy who was told to not expect any additional duties besides flight planning and to be flying all the time on AD from my old ROTC CC, Active duty has left something to be desired. My desire is to keep flying with more stability in my family life and less nightmares about a 365 to Iraq to fly C-172s. Any advice would be appreciated.

[Guest Magicrat]

I’ve got a similar situation. I’m trying to weigh my options as far as Palace chase, VSP, or stay on AD. I’m very interested in a guard unite close to my home town and all of our family and friends. I’ve contacted them and they may be hiring next spring sometime for a pilot position and have invited me for a drill weekend. Now as far as my situation is concerned, I’ve got 6 years remaining on my ADSC. I’ve been happy on AD so far, that being said, we have been getting hit with 6 month, 1 year deployments quite often lately for non-flying positions, and also been dropping UAVs like hot cakes. I have been an AC for about a year and have 300 PIC/1400 total hours. So I would not have the hours to get a good airline job, but I have a possible hook up at a corporate job. I know the ANG is not the end all beat all, but for a guy who was told to not expect any additional duties besides flight planning and to be flying all the time on AD from my old ROTC CC, Active duty has left something to be desired. My desire is to keep flying with more stability in my family life and less nightmares about a 365 to Iraq to fly C-172s. Any advice would be appreciated.

10 Driver,

Not sure if you have checked out Airline Pilot Central

Great info from a few dudes asking similar questions. Also a good place to learn about the airline gig...lots of mil guys.

Having more PIC would open many more options for you. Flying the 10 is certainly a fast way to get it. I would either try to go to a KC-10 reserve unit for the easy transition or hang out on AD until you have the PIC (how much depends on where you want to go). As for stability....it depends how you define it. In general, I wouldn't say the airline industry is "stable". You will know your schedule for the following month, but when you go to work you will be away from your family unless you live in domicile. Bottom line...you will be away from home a good bit.

I made the transition a year ago. Still getting used to the whole airline and reserve mix. No threat of a 365 day remote, but still away from home half the month.

Drop me a PM if you have questions

[Guest Matt Damon]

I am currently a Nav and was recently offered a pilot slot with the ANG. This is an unbelievable opportunity for me, which I am whole-heartedly engaged in.

Anyway, this week I am going to tell the boss-man about my situation. I have done all of my due diligence and have found that it is in the current recommendation of AFPC to deny all rated officer PC applications. This kind of sucks but I have found that there is another individual who was in much my same situation that was released very recently.

A couple of questions: What did you guys put in your memo to AFPC that went with your package? I am trying to meld passion with logic, but don't really know where to start. Second, how did you break it to your SQ/CC that you were trying to leave? I am going to make it a win-win discussion but you never know how it might go.

I think that this is a leap-of-faith deal but any insight would be appreciated.

[Bergman]

I am currently a Nav and was recently offered a pilot slot with the ANG. This is an unbelievable opportunity for me, which I am whole-heartedly engaged in.

Anyway, this week I am going to tell the boss-man about my situation. I have done all of my due diligence and have found that it is in the current recommendation of AFPC to deny all rated officer PC applications. This kind of sucks but I have found that there is another individual who was in much my same situation that was released very recently.

A couple of questions: What did you guys put in your memo to AFPC that went with your package? I am trying to meld passion with logic, but don't really know where to start. Second, how did you break it to your SQ/CC that you were trying to leave? I am going to make it a win-win discussion but you never know how it might go.

I think that this is a leap-of-faith deal but any insight would be appreciated.

My Wg/CC pushed the "total force" aspect on my palace chase application (I was in the same situation as you, albeit a few years ago). The verbage basically said that the USAF as a whole would continue to have me as an asset for an additional 10 years following UPT, so it would make sense to offer the palace chase rather than have me separate as a nav in two years.

I'll try to find my PC application and get you the exact wording if you think it'll help.

[Guest Pinto]

I am a nav, was in my qualifying PALACE CHASE window so I interviewed and got picked up by a Reserve A-10 unit, they were going to send me to UPT. I had Brooks done, a tentative class date, and then after almost 4 months at AFPC, my package came back denied by SAF/PC. I had full backing and letters from both wing commanders. I had all kinds of recommendations, was going to be a better contribution to the CAF as an A-10 pilot... but no luck. Back to being a navigator for the rest of my career (unless I get picked up AD with a time in service waivers...not likely). Tough news to take. This happened 10 Dec. Hope others have better luck than me. Service before self.

[Guest PushItUp]

I'm one of those guys who always likes to know what his options are...so was wondering what the current Palace Chase situation looked like.

My situation is that I'm late-rated, just going through bomber RTU, so still a lot of ADSC remaining. My ideal scenario would be to Palace Chase into the C-130 unit at Peterson AFB. Long story short, family quality of life would be greatly improved if I could get to CO or nearby. What about Palace Chasing into a non-flying job...is that a possibility?

Any/All input would be appreciated...

Cheers!

[hindsight2020]

pushitup,

If you're on the Buff, all I can say is embrace the SUCK brotha'. Palace Chase is not happening for people with more than a year remaining on their ADSC, and as it pertains to the nuclear assets, with the re-birth of SAC in the form of GSC, nobody is going ANYWHERE. It used to be that buff co's rusted away for years then got sent to ALO gigs (and not even the decent locations, that's for Eagle drivers...) but nowadays you're a nuclear asset FIRST, an officer SECOND, and a pilot THIRD. It sucks to be in the nuclear business these days. Yes I said it, for the people who don't like it being said, volun-effin-teer to this side of the house, the water's warm.

A lot of dudes from my FTU class have wanted out since hitting the squadrons and honestly there's no out as of recently. Even getting the AETC gig is highly skosh nowadays, some older types coming up on their 10 year ADSC were getting the AETC deal under an ADSC extension that encompassed a 179 TDY enroute to MC-12 to suckysandland as an appetizer followed by the aforementioned 36 month ADSC extension to AETC. How you like them apples? At least you'd pick up more flight time in six months of King Air flying than in two tours in the BUFF, but I digress.

I honestly don't know how the cross-flow thing works. I assume your best bet is to talk to your AFPC POC and start researching your options. But I'm telling ya, if you're in the Buff right now, not only are they holding on to folks, they're funneling a lot of folks up north for the new squadron stand up. Minot's got such a backlog on the flying right now it's not even funny. Like slacker said, you're pretty much looking at lottery ticket odds if they let you out of the community, let alone AD, with your ADSC balance and airframe qualification. Good luck brother.

[Flare]

Current guidance (as of 4 weeks ago) from the Viper porch is that Palace Chase is merely a pipe dream now, and they will waive precisely ZERO of your ADSC. I imagine it can't be too different in other airframes.

Never hurts to ask though.

[Guest Pinto]

I just had mine approved a few weeks ago with over a year left of ADSC. It was denied at first, resubmitted, came back approved. Never hurts to keep trying, especially if you have backing from the unit and your current leadership.

[rbigred300]

I seem to get different answers all the time on what the current palace chase rule is. The most recent I heard was that you could "apply" for the program when 8 out of your 10 years is done, or something along those lines, but before that I heard something completely different. Any documentation on this? Is it that the program just doesn't exist anymore...or that the air force is just not approving any right now. Policy on this type of thing just goes in waves right? I mean, I haven't been in the air force for more than 10 years, but there seems to be a trend of over-reacting to these situations...too many people in, kick too many people out, too many people out, get too many people back in...right? So if the trend continues that would imply that in 3 or 4 years, we should be kicking people out again? Care to speculate?

[KingHerc]

Yea the standard rules for the ongoing palace chase which does not fall under any special programs like force shaping, is that when 2/3 of your commitment is complete you are eligible to apply for palace chase. But you are still at the mercy of AFPC and the chain of command to let you go. I have no idea what the environment is like right now, I PC 3 years ago when they were letting everyone out without even looking.

[Guest Matt Damon]

Yea the standard rules for the ongoing palace chase which does not fall under any special programs like force shaping, is that when 2/3 of your commitment is complete you are eligible to apply for palace chase. But you are still at the mercy of AFPC and the chain of command to let you go. I have no idea what the environment is like right now, I PC 3 years ago when they were letting everyone out without even looking.

This is not totally correct and since no one seems interested in looking at the AFI, I will step up and help you all out. There is only one AFI that governs Palace Chase and it is conviently named 'Applying for Palace Chase and Palace Front Programs' or AFI 36-3205 here is a link

In response to KingHerc; on page 7, table 1.1, rule 2 it says: "Have completed at least two-thirds of the initial total ADSC by requested date of seperation (DOS)." I don't know about you all but my INITAL ADSC out of ROTC was 4 years, I have subsiquently added additional time by taking on additional training, using TA, and PCSing. Also, nowhere in AFI 36-3205 does it use such slack language as 'commitment' because that shit changes every six months and is undefineable. Also nowhere in the document does it say anything about 'force shapping'. KingHerc is right about something: you are at the mercy of AFPC in San Antonio, but wrong when it comes to your chain of command. I never asked my commander(s) for permission to get into his squadron/wing/numbered AF/command why would I ask him permission to get out? I asked AFPC, and that is where it will circle back to.

Moving on. If anyone is really interested in Palace Chase you won't get it done from your computer. Grow a pair, tell your commander, call your career field manager, talk to a ANG/AFRES liaison at your base (they are at every major base) and they will walk you step-by-step through this program.

Sorry for the flame but I just got out of the office and people never want to help themselves and are always asking to be spoon fed and I took it out on you all. But that is some good information for real. And finally the current climate regarding Palace Chase: the AD AF is 2,000 rated officers short and is hesitant to let anyone out from any rated career field. Having said that last week I put in my second PC application. Why? Because you will never win the lottery if you don't buy a ticket.

[Guest Matt Damon]

Yesterday I found out that my Palace Chase Application was approved. I am a 1Lt with 3.5 years of AD service. I can't tell you the number of times that people (former commanders included) told me that it wouldn't happen because of one reason or another. Well to hell with them I am going to UPT next year!

Botttom line: Don't take shit off anyone.

[matmacwc]

Any updates on rated dudes getting Palace Chase?

[biggie17]

Any updates on rated dudes getting Palace Chase?

Talked with a friend who works at AFPC, asked the same question. He just laughed and said, "Uh, no." Anyone have any other info on recent Palace Chase approvals?

[Guest Q36]

A new manning document is coming down the pipes in the next couple of weeks according to Palace Chase office. Supposed to be more liberal about letting people out. Didn't mention about rated guys, but air force wide a lot fewer people are getting out because of the economy, which might mean they have more rated guys than they were expecting. But I am not thinking CGOs have much of a chance regardless.

I am having enough trouble going from a nonrated position to take a UPT slot.

[Guest FlighHy]

A new manning document is coming down the pipes in the next couple of weeks according to Palace Chase office. Supposed to be more liberal about letting people out. Didn't mention about rated guys, but air force wide a lot fewer people are getting out because of the economy, which might mean they have more rated guys than they were expecting. But I am not thinking CGOs have much of a chance regardless.

I am having enough trouble going from a nonrated position to take a UPT slot.

Any news on the new manning doc? I see a lot of the post are AD rated going to ANG rated. I'm an AD 1Lt line officer looking to go ANG pilot. Has anyone had any luck recently in the same situation? I'm doing an overseas tour now and have hopes that I can PC come DEROS time. Thanks in advance!