?s on logging flight time

[Skitzo]

I think perhaps he is talking about the efficiency of the different types of powerplants.

TJ vs TF vs TP vs Recips

If you look at a curve of plotted efficiencies the turboprop looks remarkably like a recip at high altitudes.

So a high performance endorsement is the easy part, what about the high altitude, don't suppose that a lot of the IPs at UPT are also FAA CFIs, and could sign studs off for high alt training. Even if they could, I wonder if they would....

[Sneedro]

High altitude endorsement is nothing more than learning the pressurization systems, emergency procedures, and studying hypoxia stuff. I have not gone to UPT yet, but I imagine you learn those sort of things for each a/c you fly. I have my high altitude endorsement, but after getting it I sure didnt feel like I knew what I did to get it. It was just like my high performance endorsement, basically go fly and work with the system and voila there you have it. VERY EASY! I wish all my checkrides were that easy!! :cool: Question: if the IP wont/cant sign you off (i.e. not an FAA CFI), then how can you legally go solo in the a/c?? To solo in any a/c in private pilot training, you had to have all your normal sign offs that that a/c entailed. Wouldnt you need the same for the T-6 or T-37?

[Guest ekuflyer]

The T-37 doesn't require a type because it has no "type" given to it by the FAA. Unlike the T-1 "BE-400", or even the C-130 "L-100 I think". I guess the only way to fly a T-37 outside the military would be to get a special letter of authorization from a FSDO. As for the high altitude sign-off. Your UPT training "camber, class room" counts as that. It is understood by the FAA that as an AF Pilot or stud that you received that training, therefore you should be able to log that time. As for the way to log it and why to log it....

Log all as turbine, however, 15 yrs down the road trying to get a job with an airline, they are going to want the break-down of turbo-prop, turbo-jet time, PIC/SIC and all that good stuff. So the answer is yes, it is very important to log all your time, civilian and military.

[Sneedro]

Thanks for clarifying the T-37 type rating (or lack) of stuff. I definitely agree with logging turboprop/jet in different columns. They are both turbine time, but imagine have a couple thousand hours in a mix of the two and having to go back through and break it down seprately. Not a whole lot of fun. None the less they are the same thing (turbine time) basically, but it is all a matter of saving yourself some mind numbing work!!

[Guest cbire880]

Originally posted by ktulu34535:

I think perhaps he is talking about the efficiency of the different types of powerplants.

TJ vs TF vs TP vs Recips

If you look at a curve of plotted efficiencies the turboprop looks remarkably like a recip at high altitudes.

Exactly what I was referring to. Was just trying to avoid the engineering technobabble.

[Sneedro]

Can pilots even understand engineering tables?!?! Dont they know pilots like 3rd grade reading levels and pictures?? Anything else we dont have the time or patience for!! We like flying not interpreting engineering tables!! :D

[Guest drelyn8]

Turbine engine aircraft weighing in excess of 12,500 lbs require a type rating. Jet has nothing to do with it. Case and point. Part 121 Regional Airlines fly 19, 30, 48 and 68 seat turboprops. All Part 121 must have a type rating in their operational aircraft.

What is the difference between a turbofan and a turboprop? The turbofan has the fan(prop) on the inside.

[Guest brewski]

I didn't read all of the replies so I may be repeating somebody. Keep track of things yourself. Also, when you graduate you will get a print out of all your UPT events...SAVE THIS. The only reasonable way to log any of this time is student. Do anything else and you are setting yourself up for a failed airline interview...for a measly 200 hours.

As UPT comes to a close, someone in your flight needs to arrange for a mass written instrument test so you guys can get the over with.

If UPT is run like it was back in my day...the only form 8 you get is your final instrument check. Forms 8 follow you your whole career. UPT checkrides that are not form 8 rides do not. Do with this knowledge what you please.

[BFM this]

Originally posted by drelyn8:

Turbine engine aircraft weighing in excess of 12,500 lbs require a type rating. Jet has nothing to do with it.

drelyn8: we were talking about the t-6, which I'd bet is less than 12.5k, but I'm going to be in the tweet, so I'm not worried about it...

To check, call flight safety or sim-com and ask how much they charge for a C-90 type rating. ;)

As I mentioned above, when I flew skydivers there was one inspector from the local FSDO in particular who would have ate me alive had I been outside the lines on something like this.

§61.31 Type rating requirements, additional training, and authorization requirements.

(a) Type ratings required. A person who acts as a pilot in command of any of the following aircraft must hold a type rating for that aircraft:

(1) Large aircraft (except lighter-than-air).

(2) TurboJET-powered airplanes.

(3) Other aircraft specified by the Administrator through aircraft type certificate procedures.

[Skitzo]

I know we have been quoting FARs around here but what FARs actually apply to military pilots/ military pilots in training?

I mean technically some of the people learning to fly might only have private licenses, so within the letter of the FARs unless you were a commercial pilot you wouldn't even be allowed to be payed for flying?

Has anyone contacted their local FSDO about logging time and what can be counted and what can't? Because thats what I think is probably a good idea to do, problem is even the FSDOs differ over what is allowed and what isn't.

[Skitzo]

Okay I fired off a question to my local FSDO regarding the subject, maybe if enough of us email them we will get an answer

[Guest brewski]

Guys, don't re-invent the wheel. Stop wasting time on this.

Yes keep track of the time. Don't get bent over this. When it comes time to apply for airlines you will find each airline does things differently. When you calculate hours for the airlines be conservative. That means your time at UPT counts as Student. Yes it counts toward your total, yes it counts as jet/turbine (some might argue the T-6).

Do not worry about instrument time, night time, cross country. Your FSDO may say you can count this time, depending on which one you talk to. The hours will end up being nothing in the big picture.

Logging hours comes down to this, track your hours in such a way that you can calculate them in many ways. Each airline does things differently, and by the time it matters for you guys, things will have changed many times. If you have to explain how you calculated your flying time in an interview, you have probably failed the interview. BE CONSERVATIVE.

Use a spreadsheet or computerized method to track time so you can "easily" calculate for the different airlines.

I don't care what the FSDO says, I care what the airline application says. You don't want to say in an interview, "well, I counted those hours because my FSDO said I could."

Another thing, your follow-on unit is going to look at your flying RIP for upgrade hours, not your logbook.

Again, stop wasting brain cells on this.

[Flare]

Originally posted by Brewski:

Use a spreadsheet or computerized method to track time so you can "easily" calculate for the different airlines.

Any of the old pros out there use any of the computerized versions or have any thoughts/prefrences on them? Is it really worth the $50 for the Jepp version?

[Sneedro]

I knew a civilian pilot who bought the Jepp program to keep his flight time. He did not like it. He said you fill out your logbook and then go home and fill out the Jepp program. After a while, he said come the end of the day when he was tired and hungry the last thing he wanted to do was log his flight time AGAIN so he gave up on the program. He said the program was nice but just couldnt force himself to use it. If you can committ to using it more power to you. That is my 2 cents, keeping in mind I myself have never used or seen the program.

[Guest brewski]

Dudes, there are plenty of programs out there. I never used any of them. I built my own in Access, but since I haven't touched it in 3+ years, it is now a POS. As a minimum build a spreadsheet to look like a flight log, this can always be sucked into one of those programs. There are no two ways around this...it is a pain in the a$$. Try and stay on top of it. Doing this electronically (speadsheet, etc.) will make life much easier come application time.

[Guest jtpuro]

Last week I got a fam ride at Tyndall and the pilot said I can log the .8 hour of F-15 time. I got a copy of the 781, but I'm wondering where/how I can log the time. Anybody know anything about this?

[Guest tentoad]

If you are an AF aviator you can/have logged XP time. Good for virtually nothing other than bragging rights. If you are working on your ratings then you could log it as "dual received" I suppose. Did you barf? I would have.

:)

[Guest jon]

How do I log T-1 time as a student in my own logbook for when it comes time to get a civilian job since I am a reservist. I'm guessing 'SIC' and 'instruction received.' Also since almost all flights are out and backs can I log them as cross-country?? Thanks!!!

[Guest C-21 Pilot]

Log it as SP (Student Pilot)

Dual Received for the total time.

Primary, Secondary, and Other time will be divided up based upon what flight you are doing. Also, the 781 will break down the majority of it for you.

If you want to log it a X-Country, your choice, I didn't...

[BFM this]

If you touch concrete 50 miles away, log the XC. Every bit will help if you end up in a non-road tripping airframe come ATP time.

[Guest cbire880]

If i remember correctly, the ATP doesn't require a landing to count as XC, just flying 50 miles away. I don't have a copy of the regs in front of me, but I'll look it up later. Lets all those flights out to the MOA or a CAP count as XC since you still had to navigate to get there.

[Sneedro]

Anyone know what you need to do while at UPT to get type rated in the T-1?? I have heard various ways of doing it but just wanted to know what others though, especially anyone got their type during UPT. Thanks

[Guest Hvyplt]

Just ask the T-1 Sim guys. They had all the info for us. They will give you a "test prep kit" ie all the possible questions and the answers. There are only 50 or so if I remember right. After you are T-1 complete you go take a written in Enid and they give you a letter to take to OKC and they give you your temp cert for Multi land, inst, commercial and your beech types all in one shot.

Fly safe,

Vance 02-13 Grad

[Guest JimNtexas]

From 14 CFR 61.(B)(3) "Cross Country time means"

:

(v) For a military pilot who qualifies for a commercial pilot certificate (except with a rotorcraft category rating) under §61.73 of this part, time acquired during a flight—

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;

(B) That is at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

© That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems.

I'm pretty sure that military pilots need not land at a place different than the takeoff point in order to log cross country time that meets the requirements for the ATP certificate.

[Guest Guppyguy]

jon-

Only reason to log XC time would be for an ATP down the road (no distance requirement, only 500 XC hours needed).

FWIW - after that, no employer cares about XC time so its not worth keeping track of.

Guppyguy