?s on logging flight time

[ViperStud]

Logging just to keep track, but who knows it may be for other reasons eventually. That's a long way away though. Makes sense if I'm solo it's pic, so I guess that means dual is ALWAYS dual/NOT pic, even if you're qual in the jet?

[Guest comanche]

This is for the civilian side, but you can log dual and PIC at the same time, if you are qual in the plane. You are acting PIC, but recieving instruction. He can log dual given and PIC also.

[Guest comanche]

Ryder you are PIC for that time, also you will be PIC on your checkride.

[Ryder1587]

Oh ok. I had heard of it going both ways. Some people said since you're the only one in it you have to be PIC? Others, including my instructor, told me that I can't log PIC until I become rated in a thing. Such as having my PPL, but working on multi engine I could log PIC of that since I was already rated. Thanks for the help though.

[Guest comanche]

When you are working on your multi engine you are not rated and therefore you CAN NOT log PIC. When you get your PPL (single engine) you are only rated for that, multi is a different animal.

You are rated in the plane you solo because your instructor signed you off, and signed the back of your medical, and put the plane you are qualified to fly.

[Guest JArcher00]

Checkkride...it is who ever signs for the plane.

[Guest JArcher00]

commanche. your dual + pic + sic = total time. You should not log both. Try to explain to a civilian company why your times do not add up.

[Guest comanche]

I never said anything about sic time. It should be PIC + SIC= TT plus dual received while working on your PPL and Multi and certain endorsements.The checkride you are PIC. The FAA doesn't care who signs out the plane, you are the one manipulating the controls. The check airman isn't going to be PIC, so that leaves you!!

You shouldn't be logging SIC time unless you are flying an airplane rated for two pilots, and possibly safety pilot time depending on the way you set it up. Safety pilot time can get tricky, and I would aviod it.

[ 12. May 2005, 15:48: Message edited by: comanche ]

[Guest JArcher00]

No it is not. When you are a student you log dual. So your dual + pic + sic = TT. You can't log sic as a student. I have been doing this for 4000+ hours. I know what I am talking about. You are not PIC on a checkride when you are not rated in an a/c, military or civilian. It also depends on logging per part 61 or 1.

[ 12. May 2005, 15:43: Message edited by: RedDog ]

[Guest comanche]

Reddog you are WRONG!!! I don't care how long you have been doing it. Who is PIC on the civilian side on your checkride? Your instructor who is sitting on the ground? (BTW I'm talking about the civilian side, I have no clue on the military side) When you are a student you do log dual when your instructor is in the plane, but you also put that time down as TT time. dual + pic + sic DOES NOT equal TT. I can log dual and pic at the same time!! I never said anything about logging SIC time as a student, refer to the post above about SIC time.

[ 12. May 2005, 15:44: Message edited by: comanche ]

[Guest JArcher00]

You do not seem to understand the meaning of total time. It is ALL of your time, PIC (captian..the one signing for the plane), SIC (FO/co-pilot..along for the ride but required in larger a/c) DUAL (not rated in the aircraft) When you take a checkride with an FAA examiner next to you, he/she is the PIC. You are not rated in the aircraft. If something goes wrong. He/she is responsible...not the student. Log whatever you want. I did all my flight training in the civilian world through my ATP with 4 type-ratings before the military. I know how it works. Log what ever you want and I hope I go for a job against you one day and they laugh at your "interpretation" of the rules. Good lulck

[Guest comanche]

I guess the chief pilot of the one the largest regionals doesn't know jack either, he's the one that did all of my checkrides. They won't laugh since I know what I'm talking about, maybe that is how it was done 40 years ago but it has changed a little. Call a FDSO and ask them, or call your local examiner and ask him/her.

Hang on let me bow done since you have 4 type ratings and an ATP blah blah blah. Doesn't mean you know what you are talking about. It means you think you do!

Are you telling me you only log dual when you aren't rated in the a/c? You didn't log dual and pic for instrument etc?

[Guest JArcher00]

Yes only when non-rated. 40 years ago...I am 28. You did your checkride in a sim right? Hope you are logging that as flight time in your logbook.....Ha

[Guest JArcher00]

To answer your ques about when I got my instrument rating. I did it in combo with my multi- and then took 1 checkride after the other. So I only logged dual through out. Dont get me wrong. You can log it but should not in my mind..but I am nobody. You can also log PIC quoting a lot of regs such as Part I, 61, 91, etc. Each for their own reason. go to an airline interview and it will bring up ques. That is the joy of military flying. It is cut and dry. I am done writing about this. Good luck

[ 12. May 2005, 16:15: Message edited by: RedDog ]

[Guest rurban12]

On every BFR I've done, with 3 different instructors, the instructor has written the time in my book under PIC AND Dual Received, so it sounds like many people do double-count that time.

[ 12. May 2005, 16:54: Message edited by: rurban12 ]

[Guest comanche]

ruban that is the correct way of doing it, just a heads up the now call it a Flight Review not a BFR anymore. You are still PIC of the aircraft and getting dual. The instructor then can log dual given and PIC too.

If your flight review has expired you aren't allowed to log PIC.

[ 12. May 2005, 17:12: Message edited by: comanche ]

[scoobs]

Reddog are you saying log dual and sic at the same time?

[Guest Wxpunk]

Wow, are you guys done? How about reading this:

FAR 61.51

Have a nice day!

-------------

Wxpunk

[Guest JArcher00]

I lied..I am not done here

No, either one or the other ...Dual.or.pic.or.sic....add them to equal your total time. If you are solo...then it is PIC. A checkride is not PIC most of the time. It is still dual or SIC if you are not qualified or listed as SIC and not PIC. When you fly a larger a/c which requires 2 pilots one is PIC one is SIC. The examiner in the aircraft flight will normally be PIC since the applicant in not qualified in the a/c yet. The applicant can log SIC or Dual or both. All I am saying is that they should pick one. That way all the times add up to the total. You only lose a few hours doing it that way but your times make sense when someone looks at it.

WxPunk. The part 61 reg is good for certification purposes.

Anyone else with airline experience please add to this with your experience with logbook checks by other airlines.

It does not matter to me what someone logs. When it comes to the airline interview if they take that route, then we shall see who has the last laugh when explaining the loggbok entries and how they come up with their times. I still laugh at people who log level D simulator under the flight times in their logbook. In a sim, you log nothing but simulator time. The endorsement of the training covers the person for the issue at hand, be it insturment check, type-rating, etc.. A level D counts as a training device for currency and certification but is not an aircraft..you can't log flight time. That is why some logbooks have simultor columns. Some people still can't understand that.

[ 12. May 2005, 20:13: Message edited by: RedDog ]

[Guest CBStud]

Viperstud -

Hey man, I don't know if it’s technically right or wrong but it’s the guidance I've gotten. Prior to Form 8 your dual time is Dual Recv'd. C model time is PIC because there is no one else in the jet so how could it be anything else? (The point brought up to me.) Post Form 8 all time is PIC. If you're flyin a pit-er you log PIC and Dual Recv'd. Like I said, I don't know if it’s right or wrong but it sure makes sense to me so I don't really care if I'm doing it wrong because it’s justifiable.

[ViperStud]

Thanks 2. On a related topic people have brought up the idea of electronic logbooks and they sound like a good idea since you can sort stuff and make corrections easily. What features should you look for in one or even better, any reccomendations on good software to use and where to get it?

[ellsworb]

I keep 2 logbooks. Electronic for individual flights and a hard copy where I put in Monthly block entries. If something were to happen (at least in the FAA's mind), you would only recover those hours listed on your 8710, unless you had proof.

[Guest mfont]

When I took my PPL checkride, the examiner clearly stated before the the flight that I was PILOT IN COMMAND. After the flight, when filling out my logbook, he logged it as PIC. He explained it to me this way: On a PPL checkride, your examiner is your first passenger. Also, when training for an instrument rating, you may log BOTH PIC and DUAL RECEIVED given that you are checked out/signed off for the A/C you are in. I am now training for Commercial, and my first 2 hours of instruction in the C172RG could not be logged as PIC because I did not have the logbook endorsement for complex A/C. Same goes for flying high performance A/C. As for safety pilot time, I'm still trying to figure that one out! Some say PIC, some say SIC. I never understood why anyone would log SIC in a Cessna Skyhawk, though. Kind of silly if you ask me.

[Guest comanche]

mfont it is kind of silly, but if you both agree to log PIC and if something were to happen on that flight, both of you would be responsible, both were PIC. Some people decide it is better to not worry about it and log SIC, which I still think you could get in trouble. I'd stay way from it if possible!

[Guest JArcher00]

You cant log SIC unless the a/c requires a second pilot or the company op spec requires it for lets say insurance. Safety pilot would not be PIC either. You are a passenger unless the above situation occurs.