?s on logging flight time

[Gravedigger]

Originally posted by RedDog:

You cant log SIC unless the a/c requires a second pilot or the company op spec requires it for lets say insurance. Safety pilot would not be PIC either. You are a passenger unless the above situation occurs.

Negative, SAFETY PILOT IS PIC. You are a required crewmember in VFR conditions if the oher PIC is flying solely by ref to the instruments. This only applies if you are checked out in the A/C. There is great debate over the SIC part if you are not checked out in the plane but still fly safety pilot. Some say that you log SIC in this case, some say you can't "legally" log SIC if the a/c itself(not the situation) does not require a second crewmember. Personally, I logged SIC as a safety in a High Perf a/c before I got my signoff. Let me say again though, SAFETY PILOT IS PIC!

[Guest JArcher00]

"Negative, SAFETY PILOT IS PIC. You are a required crewmember in VFR conditions if the oher PIC is flying solely by ref to the instruments"

Explain how there are 2 PICs?

Required crewmember does not mean anything about PIC. Show me the reg and I will shut up.

[Guest Sundowner]

"Normally, a safety pilot, required by regulations, who scans for traffic for a pilot flying under simulated instrument conditions is not pilot-in-command and thus logs second-in-command. However, if the two pilots agree that the safety pilot is designated pilot-in-command, the safety pilot/pilot-in-command may log PIC since he is the pilot responsible for the operation and safety of the aircraft. The pilot flying is "sole manipulator of the controls for which the pilot is rated"" and may also log PIC. Therefore, two private pilots may log PIC under these conditions."

https://www.awp.faa.gov/new/fsdo/art_pilot.htm

hope that helps.

[Guest JArcher00]

You quoted an article. Quote a regulation. You can't log SIC if the aircraft or company does not require it. This is not rocket science.

[ 13. May 2005, 11:58: Message edited by: RedDog ]

[Guest mfont]

Red Dog,

That is from the FAA's FSDO dot gov website. You are wrong. Many times the regs are ambiguous and need articles written to clear them up. Good post Sundowner! I'm glad someone cleared up the safety pilot issue.

[Guest Goose]

I just checked on my PCSM score and it was rather disappointing, as you can imagine with only one logged flying hour.

I was wondering how everyone recieved their hours, through private paid instruction? CAP or something like it?

Also, any reccomendations or tips for getting some hours?

I'd like to build on my score of 31, and plan on retaking my AFOQT to improve on my meager score of 58 for pilot (I'm going to study a little this time instead of going in blind).

[Guest Goose]

Hmm.. So I'd be looking at about 4500-5000 right?

Do you sign up for individual hours or can you pay by the hour?

[UPT-hopeful]

Yes, a private certificate is going to run you around that much. Feel free to shop around your local area for better rates/deals.

You can pay per hour. Most flight schools/clubs offer [at times significant] discounts for purchasing block hours. They usually want $500 - $1000+ upfront, but you can possibly save $10 - $20+/hr for the rental of the plane. If it fits into your budget, for the same price you can squeeze a couple extra hours out by doing this.

Key and Sallie May both offer loans that you can pay for flight training with. Kind of like a student loan.

[ 01. June 2005, 08:54: Message edited by: UPT-hopeful ]

[Guest MUrhino]

I think i got my PPL somewhere around $4k, possibly less. Here's some food for thought. My roommate had a PCSM score of 3, yes 3, and he was one of the top 5 candidates in the country from AFROTC for a pilot slot last year. Granted he was a stellar cadet and had everything else squared away, but PCSM isn't everything. It definitely helps as it's a prediction of the probability you have of graduating UPT. Personal opinion: the PCSM score will help you more than hurt you.

[zrooster99]

I used a credit card for my PPL...something to consider...if you can get a low% loan though that would be better...whatever gives you the best APR...(as long as you have the disciplin not to use the CC for anything else).

[Guest Lightninbo]

why go in debt???? just another strees that you dont need... I did everything from working at a local airport sweeping the floors to mowing lawns for the extra cash... if you really want it then go get it, show some iniative.... its not the smartest that achieve greatness, but rather the persistant and passionate!

[Guest Goose]

That all sounds good in theory but the thing is there isn't a local airport around here that would be so kind. I know in school there's one like that that's down the highway a little bit but that option isn't so viable around here.

Another Q - One of my friends has a plane and can probably take me up/show me some stuff. The hours that we have logged, do they have to be from a certified flight instructor? I don't really care so much about getting my PPL, I just want to log some hours. Is it possible to log hours from people who are not certified instructors?

[Guest Goose]

Okay so any hours that I put in a logbook have to be from certified flight instructors? The last comment was a bit unclear.

[UPT-hopeful]

Yes, until you're certified by the FAA to fly the type of airplane, glider, or airship, all logged hours must be from a certified flight instructor. At least until you're endorsed to fly solo. Then you can fly yourself (w/o passengers, obviously).

[Guest Lightninbo]

"Is it possible to log hours from people who are not certified instructors?"

Answer: "Nope sure isn't" ie.... It is not at all possible (legal) to log flight hours as a student pilot unless an instructor(CFI) signs flys with you, or you have been signed off by an instructor(CFI) to solo that specific aircraft and that sign off is current as per FAR's .

hope this was a bit more clear.

If you are serious about a career in the airforce as an Aviator, it seems as if you would want to get a PPL, ir, cpl, cfi, cfii, me, mei etc.... thats like saying "i'm interested in becoming a surgeon but could care less about learning anatomy.

just doesn't make much sense.

[Guest lightning4eva]

Goose,

If your gonna get some flight hours, just get to the 10-11 hr mark. It won't kill you financially and it will more than likely allow you to solo.

If you get a slot, the AF w/pay for your PPL. If you get selected, you could get it next summer, if you don't go back for CTA duty ( ).

Also, even w/the rumors of pilot #'s dropping in the future, they look at the whole picture. Let me remind you in the past 3 years, 2 pilots have received a "1" for a PCSM score.

Just something to think about. Good luck at FT. Remember to add a lil salt on the eggs!

[Guest x-wing]

Awhile ago someone posted a website where you could see how many points you can get for the amount of flight hours you have.

Does anyone still have it?

[UPT-hopeful]

That's the PCSM score website, probably. It's variable on your AFOQT Pilot score and your BAT performance. https://www.aetc.randolph.af.mil/SAS/pcsm/.

Your hours/PCSM score isn't linear so you can't break it down to 1hr/2.43 PCSM pts. The earlier hours count more towards your score.

[Guest Thriller]

Here's a little trick to save cash and work on instruments,

Once you get your PPL, get with someone who is also looking for hours and has their PPL.

One of you can legally be under the hood and the other not under the hood. This way, you both can log the same time (as long as you one of you stays under the hood).

Read up in the FAR/AIM about "saftey pilots".

This is a great way to share the cost with someone who is in the same boat as you...

PEACE

THRILLER

[ 07. June 2005, 22:54: Message edited by: Thriller ]

[Guest Apollo]

https://www.skyparkaviatorsclub.com/aircraft.aspx

Guess our airport is cheap.

[Bergman]

Pardon me while I highlight my FAA/GA ignorance again. Although it seems like we've discussed this topic to death, my searches came up empty.

What is the prevailing opinion of logging USAF "other" time for FAA total time purposes?

After reading Part 61.51 , my thought is you could count "other" as Second-in-Command, based on f.2 below (assuming that you have the required license...MEL/inst), as it doesn't specify that you have to be at the controls:

(f) Logging second-in-command time. A person may log second-in-command flight time only for that flight time during which that person:

(1) Is qualified in accordance with the second-in-command requirements of Sec. 61.55 of this part, and occupies a crewmember station in an aircraft that requires more than one pilot by the aircraft's type certificate; or

(2) Holds the appropriate category, class, and instrument rating (if an instrument rating is required for the flight) for the aircraft being flown, and more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is being conducted.

I know this is really just semantics, but the airlines appear on the front end of a hiring window and being able to count several hundred hours of "other" time toward their TT requirement could mean getting hired 6-9 months earlier.

[Guest PilotKD]

Personally, I wouldn't log SIC time sitting in the jump seat, nav station, boom's seat, or even worse, in the back with the rollers, but that's just me. Is the jump seat a "crew station"?? I guess it is, but the aircraft doesn't require a jump seater. It requires two pilots in the left and right seats. Not to say other time is not valuable, but again, I wouldn't count it.

[Guest comanche]

Berg I would say wait. If during the interview they find out that you logged jump seat time as SIC time that would be a no go. Most airlines don't like to see safety pilot time. It's kind on the same line.

[Hacker]

Most of the airline apps that I've put eyes on are specific about what they care about WRT categories of time.

You can DEFINITELY count "other" in the "total time" category, but I don't think it's legitimately SIC time.

[USMCAirWinger]

If I was doing the hiring and I see an application with "jumpseat" time, it would go right into the trash.