Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) Certificate

[Guest rstrayve]

Just want to know if anyone has seen an ATP Cert make a difference at an interview (ANG)? I'm wondering if the pursuit of an ATP is notable to a board even though it isn't at all required.

Does anyone know of this certification making an impression? I know I can estimate that it could make a difference, but it would be nice to hear of some actual cases.

Thanks ahead of time.

[Guest coexint]

When I did my guard interview (I didn't get the job) during the summer of 2002, I was a commercial pilot with about 600 hours, on my way to get my CFI/I, I had the second highest time out of 17 interviews, the other guy had an ATP with about 1800+ hours. He didn't get the job either. I am not detering you from going for it, it does look nice to have. But from my experience, I honestly don't think that it would matter that much at all. Myself and the ATP guy both lost to private instrument guys with around 50-150 hours. They want to be able to see if they can sit in a cockpit with you for a fews hours, and on that note have you in their unit for 20 years. Win your UPT slot with your attitude. Good luck!

David

[SUX]

If you have met all the time requirements and have passed the written is it possible to get your ATP during your T-1 checkride. Will the FAA give you the equivalency rating like they do with the Commercial, Instrument, and Multiengine ratings.

[ 28. July 2005, 15:19: Message edited by: pcgoeken ]

[mule]

Nope...unless you can get an FAA examiner on board. Even then, the FAA isn't too thrilled when the examiner isn't in the seat.

BUT...if you happen to want to get your type rating in the 737, you can get your ATP done in conjunction with the type.

[Baseops.Net]

Not on a T-1 (or any other USAF aircraft...)

BUT, if you are lucky enough to become an IP at Corpus (C-12/T-44) you can get your ATP in the US Navy plane (there is an FAA examiner at the base...) and it is a good deal for everyone!

[Guest cliffy]

It seems that there are zillions of companies offering ATP training. How do I know if they are legit/accreditted/whatever?

Can anyone recommend a program?

What are the differences between the different training programs (certified/written tested/etc)?

Thanks,

cliffy

[ 01. September 2006, 19:24: Message edited by: Toro ]

[Hacker]

I know a number of guys who have used the long weekend ATP courses.

Yes, they're totally legit, and many times they cator to military guys.

The options generally are:

ATP checkride only

ATP written and checkride

FE and ATP written, ATP checkride

They all cost between $1K and $2K, depending on where they are and which of the options you want.

[Guest Hud Cripple]

I used www.sheppardair.com for the test prep for both the ATP and FE written exams. This stuff is right on the money. Well worth the dough.

I did the ATP practical at Pensacola. The latest price was 1795.00 plus the cost of the checkride.

The sheppardair software allows you to have the exact same database as the ALLATP folks, but you get to do it at your own convienence and pace. When you are ready you go take the test. Sheppardair guarantees success! I aced both test!

Visit the website for more details

[SUX]

I know All ATP's is running this special right now, https://www.atpflightschool.com/programs/certificates/atp/atp-special.html In my opinion that is a good deal if you need the written and flight evaluation. I got my ATP 2 weeks ago at a small flight school in Iowa and already had the written completed and my price out the door was $1600. Check with your local flight schools, travel costs could offset the lower advertised price of going to an All ATP's location.

Disclaimer: I am in no way associated with All ATP or any other flight school.

[Chida]

I recently did ATP training with Accessible Aviation nearby Columbus AFB, MS. I did the ATP written test ($150) at a local testing center after studying on my own with Sheppard Air software ($75). Then I went to Accessible Aviation. I took two flights in a Seneca on a Saturday, one flight on Sunday morning, and the check ride Sunday afternoon. The oral quiz lasted about 1.5 hours, and the checkride was 2.5 hours. Carl Nuzzo is the owner and, most likely, will be the one to instruct you. He is also a part-time sim instructor for the T-6's at the base. I think that the program was thorough and Carl gave the best training a military pilot can ask for. It cost $2500 (includes lodging and examiner fee).

[KennyB]

Has anyone attempted to get the Education Office to pay for your ATP test/flight via the 1-time $4500 certification? There is some verbiage about $250/credit hour, and that doesn't directly translate to an FAA certificate program. The Ed Office explained to me that if I can show where the school is accredited, they would pay for the cert. I explained that the AllATP course is only 3 days long, and she said in non-standard courses, they'll pay $250 for every 15 hours of instruction.

So in the case of the 3-day course at AllATP, the AF would pay up to $750 of the total $2500 bill (and a $300 evaluator charge on top of that)... but they'll pay nothing unless I can prove the school's accreditation.

Anyone already fought/won this battle?

[slc]

Simply wait till 1 Oct 11, the change(s) to the Post 9/11 bill takes effect which allows the VA to pay up to 10K per month for flight training benefits (including ATP) in addition to BAH. Higher Power Aviation = 737 type with ATP certificate, 2 wk course, $7500 + $500 for hotel. Cost to you = $0. Get it now before the gov. takes it away!!

[slc]

I spoke directly with VA about this (ie how many months of benefits left after going to HPA). After 1 Oct, VA will pay for flight trng benefits up to 10k PER MONTH ie if your course is 3 months then reimbursement for 3 months (up to 10k per month). With HPA (a 2 wk. course), she said you will burn 1 month (2 months max) of benefits of your total post 9/11 months remaining.

[KennyB]

So, if you're only using one month of Post 9/11 GI Bill, you should have 35 months remaining to pass onto the kids.

"This benefit provides up to 36 months of education benefits, generally benefits are payable for 15 years following your release from active duty."

Not a bad deal to steal only one month of school from your kid when you consider that you'll be front loading the FAA certificate required for your civilian transition.

[slc]

Absolutely. Most individuals have done HPA in the past and had to front $3000 (VA would only pay for 50-60%). And for those of us in the Guard/Reserve who have burned past benefits and need to tally up how much they have left and subsequently qualify for, read this little gem (which is another very important bit of info buried in the system). I've been down this road, so feel free to ask for more advice.

https://www.afrc.af.mil/library/post-911-gi-bill.asp

[ThreeHoler]

I spoke directly with VA about this (ie how many months of benefits left after going to HPA). After 1 Oct, VA will pay for flight trng benefits up to 10k PER MONTH ie if your course is 3 months then reimbursement for 3 months (up to 10k per month). With HPA (a 2 wk. course), she said you will burn 1 month (2 months max) of benefits of your total post 9/11 months remaining.

The GI Bill website has the following information:

Under the Post-9/11 GI Bill, the US Department of Veterans Affairs will cover the lesser amount between the actual net costs for in-state tuition and fees charged by the flight schools and $10,000. The Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA) is now lobbying Congress to pass an appropriation bill that would make sure that flight training funding will indeed be available to those who would like to attend flight schools.

https://www.gibill.com/news/flight-training-now-covered-by-post-911-gi-bill-333.html

Looks like a good deal to me. Thanks for the heads up!

[BFM this]

Has anyone attempted to get the Education Office to pay for your ATP test/flight via the 1-time $4500 certification? There is some verbiage about $250/credit hour, and that doesn't directly translate to an FAA certificate program. The Ed Office explained to me that if I can show where the school is accredited, they would pay for the cert. I explained that the AllATP course is only 3 days long, and she said in non-standard courses, they'll pay $250 for every 15 hours of instruction.

So in the case of the 3-day course at AllATP, the AF would pay up to $750 of the total $2500 bill (and a $300 evaluator charge on top of that)... but they'll pay nothing unless I can prove the school's accreditation.

Anyone already fought/won this battle?

If you need to reference an education office that is up and running with this, call Moody. They've got two schools approved. I didn't use them for my ATP due to scheduling complications, but they know the regs and certification requirements.

[Homestar]

Can one still use his post-9/11 GI bill if one has already signed the paperwork to transfer bennies to the kids?

[GoAround]

Can one still use his post-9/11 GI bill if one has already signed the paperwork to transfer bennies to the kids?

Yes, most def.

[sputnik]

Been reading some stories about it since it's now past 1 Oct, what I see says 10k per year (vs month cited above), which I could care a less about as I'm covered either way. What I'm not sure of, hwo many months of the 36 does it actually take away from what I give my kids? A month or two I could care a less about, a year's worth....

I realize it's been in place a week, but anyone pressed to test on this? I wanna get signed up with Higher Power.

[HookEmAll]

I've called the flight schools, the VA, the base education offices, and word of mouth on how much of your 36 months you are giving up. The flight schools can't seem to get a straight answer from the VA. I can't get an answer even when I ask the question four different ways, the answer is always, well sir it depends on how much you use or well, up to 10,000$, and the base education office gives me the old montgomery gi bill answer. I have a friend using it now, but even he doesn't know (or care). Most people on here have the info that it is one month, but I'd rather not accidentally use 12, right?

[JS]

So we can get the 10k a year for only post 9/11 MGIbill and not the old one? I haven't converted to the post 9/11 because I thought only the old program paid for flight training.

The post 9/11 GI Bill definitely pays for flight training. Depending on how many months I will be charged if I use it for my ATP, I am considering using the old GI bill (with the old 60% cost limitation, of course) to ensure I don't dip into my 36 months of post-9/11 that I want to transfer to the kids. I emailed the VA to make sure that I could use the old Montgomery GI bill while maintaining the post 9/11 for the kids, and they said "yes," as long as I did not exceed 12 months of the old one (apparently you can receive up to 48 months of combined benefits between the two programs).

So my plan right now is to have the VA pay for 60% of the ATP using the old Montgomery GI Bill, which would not cost me more than 12 months of benefits the old school way. This way I know for sure that I will have all 36 months of post 9/11 to transfer. The only downside is that I will wind up paying $1200 or so for the rating.

If anyone has success doing it with the post 9/11 and it only costing 1 month of benefit, please let me know.

[slc]

Careful here. You are only allowed a total of 48 mo. of GI bill benefits in your lifetime. I burned 34 mo. of GI bill in the '90's for my basketweaving degree leaving me 14 mo. of total benefits remaining. I have recently transferred these benefits to post 9/11 status leaving me with still 14 mo of GI bill left.

[JS]

Just to clarify, here is what I emailed the GI Bill Help people on the VA's website:

"Hello,

I have never used GI Bill benefits, and was wondering if I can use the GI Bill-SR, and then use/transfer my full post-9/11 GI bill at a later date.

My specific situation is as follows: I am a drilling reservist. I would like to use VA benefits to pay for my ATP flight training certificate (approximately $2500 total cost). I also would like to transfer as much of my post 9/11 GI Bill to my dependents as possible. If allowed, I would like to use the Montgomery GI Bill-Selected Reserve to pay for the flight training (60% rule applies, I assume, so I would plan on receiving approximately $1500 for that) now. At a later date, I would then like to transfer the full amount of my post-9/11 GI Bill to my dependents.

I guess my question is this - can I use $1500 of the GI Bill-SR without dipping into the 36 months of my post-9/11 GI Bill, since I will be transferring that to my dependents?

Thank you."

And this was their response:

"Yes, you may certainly do so. The least confusing way of doing things would be to simply apply for the Selective Reserve MGIB first and use it for your intended purpose. When done, then use the DoD site to initiate your transfer of benefits to your dependents. As long as you do not exceed 12 months worth of entitlement under the Selective Reserve MGIB, then yes, there would still be a full 36 months left for transferring.

Thank you for contacting the VA.

GS/2767

Muskogee RPO"

[JS]

Got a reply back from the VA website that clears it all up as far as how much entitlement you will be charged for flight training:

"The charge to entitlement for flight training under the revisions to the Post 9/11 GI Bill are still being determined. We will post the final determination on our web site as soon as a decision has been made. Please check www.gibill.va.gov frequently as updates are being posted as soon as they become available.

Thank you for contacting the Department of Veterans Affairs.

pjh/2609

Muskogee RPO"

Also, I just got off the phone with the flight school that I am going to do mine through, and they said there is a catch that might not be too good. Apparently, in order to use the 9/11 GI Bill, you have to "complete" the entire flight training course per FAA standards (non college degree program). The FAA standard for the ATP is 25 hours. If you "withdraw" from the course, you apparently won't get reimbursed. In other words, if you don't log 25 flight hours of Part 141 school flying time (which is about 21 more than most schools really have you do), then you might not be reimbursed. He is trying to figure out a workaround or exception for guys with military time or something.

I will be using the old GI Bill for the ATP just so I not only get paid but so it doesn't eat into several months of my kids 9/11 GI Bill.