Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) Certificate

[KennyB]

it doesn't eat into several months of my kids 9/11 GI Bill.

Has anyone tracked down exactly how many Post 9/11 GI Bill months will be charged for the Higher Power Aviation 737 type course? If you complete the ATP written prior to showing up for the 13-day type program, they will combo check you ATP & 737 at no extra charge. So how many GI Bill months equates to $7380 HPA charge?

The VA is still 'working out' how they will justify paying for the full course. I'm asking if anyone has first hand knowledge since the 1 October when the fine print changed. Thanks.

[Big Bear]

Yep, go ahead and use the 12 mo of old GI bill and then transfer. You'll now have 36 mo. of post 9/11 GI bill remaining. Same thing i did but backwards. It'll still work.

FYI, that won't work. I just went through the rounds with the VA and education office about this. To get the full 48 months eligibility, you MUST use up ALL of your Chapter 30 benefits BEFORE you can apply for the additional 12 months of Post-911 benefits. Otherwise, all you can do is transfer your benefits (whatever you have remaining) to post-911. You can't use just 12 Mo of pre and then use 36 of post. Its either 36 post-911, or 36 Pre and 12 post. Or you can use 12 months of pre and transfer the remaining 24 to post (which sucks)

I know it's confusing, and it contradicts common sense, but that's the way they work.

No idea how that applies to a certification program, or flight training through. I'm assuming it works just like paying for school.

[soultrain]

Another vote here for the ATP from Accessible Aviation (Starkeville, MS) for the guys near Columbus. Carl N. takes care of his students, and you'll know your sh*t when it comes time to take the checkride. Couple that with the written exam from Sheppard Air & you're good to go. ATP is good forever...get it done while you've got the hands...even if you're committed to staying for 20.

[JS]

2.

I got mine done through Accessible, but I would caveat that I didn't exactly "know my shit" after spending a mere day and a half and only 2 and 1/2 flights there - the last flight was a quick, one approach "wind check" to warm up for the checkride. But Carl definitely crammed nothing but the exact stuff that you needed to know for the practical into those 2 days - no more, no less. To be honest, I kind of got my butt kicked on the checkride itself because I hadn't flown old-school instruments, single-pilot, with an unfamiliar GPS in quite a while. But it definitely helped that the examiner was very understanding of the whole military thing and how Carl only sends the "best of the best" to him for their ATP checks .

[Big Bear]

So you are saying that what the VA rep told me via the online question/answer website is incorrect? Are you sure about this?

In hindsight, we are talking about two different programs. You're talking about selected reserve and I'm referring to the normal Active duty MGIB. So, I doubt they told you something wrong, however I'm fairly confident what I said is true for Active Duty guys.

[JS]

Cool. I thought the Montgomery GI Bill Selected Reserve was in the same bucket as the Montgomery GI Bill, but it turns out that the Reserve one is chapter 1606 and the active duty one is chapter 30 (post 9/11 is chapter 33). That is probably the difference, somehow in the VA's convoluted way of making things confusing.

[Cap-10]

Another push for Carl down at Accessible. You will learn what you need to know to pass the written and the checkride...end result is your name on an ATP ticket in min time!

[Flare]

Update: there are multiple dudes over at APC that have done the 737 type with the post 9/11 GI Bill. It is taking 10 months of eligibility, not 1. Unless you or your chitlins aren't going to use the money for college, it isn't worth it.

[Quartz]

Any idea how they calculate it to get 10 months?

[ThreeHoler]

I would assume they figure 10 months since you get $10k per year and HPA costs ~$8k. This no longer sounds like such a great deal.

[Cap-10]

After digging thru the VA website, I found a section titled "Flight training":

• If you are enrolled in any degree program that consists of flight training at a public Institution of Higher Learning you can be reimbursed up to the resident in-state cost of the training and will be eligible to receive your housing allowance and the books & supplies stipend.
• If you are enrolled in any degree program that consists of flight training at a private Institution of Higher Learning you can be reimbursed up to the full cost of the training or $17,500 per academic year, whichever is less. You will also be eligible to receive your housing allowance and the books & supplies stipend.
• If you are enrolled in any type of vocational flight training you can be reimbursed up to the full cost of training or $10,000 per academic year, whichever is less, you WILL NOT receive the housing allowance or books & supplies stipend.

$10K (approx) program equals 1 academic year, so 9 months of eligibility sounds right.

Cheers,

Cap-10

[Buddy Spike]

I've heard this one is pretty good

https://www.atpflightschool.com/programs/certificates/atp/atp_and_written.html

$2595 for a three day course (including written)

[epsilon]

Nothing but good words about "higher power aviation" in dallas. Had a few bros do the 737 combined type rating/atp with those guys.

[itsokimapilot]

Nothing but good words about "higher power aviation" in dallas. Had a few bros do the 737 combined type rating/atp with those guys.

Even if SWA never hires, I would go back to Higher Power in a heartbeat. One of the best training experiences in my career. If you're not in the mood for v1 cuts in a light twin, HPA is the place to go.

[Vetter]

I second HPA, especially for the single seat types who want to learn about running a crew. It's a crash course, but probably some of the best training I've seen.

I realize now I have nothing to offer that is actually on topic. Sorry.

[Nasalradiator]

Did the ATP/737 type in 2008/2009 over the holidays. Aeroservice in Miami needed to fill a holiday class, and wanted $4,500. Montgomery GI Bil picked up 60% of that. I think they have since been bought out by another company, but you should sniff around for a deal.

Edit: For Grammars

Edited December 23, 2012 by Nasalradiator

[pittsdriver]

I did research on the place in MS and then a friend recommended the guy in Boston. The fact that you can do it in one day and only one flight and no military pilot has ever failed the ride was enough for me. Just trying to help out my military bros looking for the most simple, easy low threat option. The last thing you want showing up to the airlines is a pink slip from a busted ATP ride.

Edited December 23, 2012 by pittsdriver

[Chida]

Accessible Aviation near Columbus AFB. I did the written at an FBO near my hometown after I bought and studied with Sheppard AIr study software. Carl Nuzzo is the owner/operator of Accessible Aviation. He sent me all the info I needed to study via email. I showed up on a Fri evening, we went over the things I studied. That night I studied some more. The next day we did a flight in the morning and a flight in the afternoon. Sunday morning we did a flight and Sunday afternoon was the check ride. This was 2 years ago and I was on a short timeline so I was unable to be scheduled with his regular DPE. He was able to get another DPE for me anyway and it was fine. The checkride was fine and I got my ticket. The flying is in a twin Piper.

Total cost was around $2500 (again, 2 years ago) and I stayed in the VOQ on Columbus AFB. However, if you like you can stay in the lodging provided by Accessible Aviation because it's included in the fee. I did not because I brought my wife with me and it's sort of a shared living arrangement with other students, meaning that you're in an apartment and you each have your own bedroom, but the living room, kitchen, and bathroom are shared with zero to three other individuals.

Not to step on any toes, but my advice is not to blow money on a 737 type rating unless you need one (i.e. intend to be hired by SWA). The 9/11 GI Bill will pay for your ATP written and ATP check ride at the least. If the school meets certain guidelines they will also pay for the training up to $10000 per school year. Check with the individual school to see if they qualify for 9/11 GI Bill reimbursement (to you). I did mine before this new VA rule came out, so I was only able to get the ATP checkride reimbursed ($350). Make sure you keep your receipts! The proportion you will "spend" on the GI/bill is $10000=9 months. So if you went with Accessible it would be approx $3500=4 months of GI bill benefits, according to my understanding.

https://www.gibill.va.gov/resources/education_resources/programs/flight_training.html

[Prozac]

Carl runs a good program and it's certainly competitive at around $2600 including lodging. That said, don't go thinking you are getting a gentlemen's course. The FAA has it's eye out for those and is cracking down. I was there with a Navy fighter guy who was licking the wounds of a busted checkride the previous week. Be prepared to study (a bit) as most of us aren't overly familiar with light piston twins. Carl understands this and tailors the course appropriately. Still, it's a three day course so it's on you to make sure you're ready to check. If you really want to stay in familiar turbine/crew territory, I've heard nothing but good things about HPA, but it WLL set you back either monetarily, or burn through about 9 months of Post 9/11 GI Bill benefits.

[amcflyboy]

I've heard this one is pretty good

https://www.atpflightschool.com/programs/certificates/atp/atp_and_written.html

$2595 for a three day course (including written)

Did this course in Trenton, NJ. The three day course is perfect for military guys who are instrument proficient. Highly recommend it!

[Saluki]

I used Joey "Gordo" Sanders in Jasper, AL. Great guy (retired F4 &135 guy). 3 flights, great in FBO accommodations, and great instruction from Mr. Ed. No issues. PM if anyone wants more detail. https://www.sandersaviation.com/

[Jaded]

Any reason to get the ATP written done now before they change the rules later this year? I'm still a couple years from separating.

[amcflyboy]

Yes...the written is good for 24 months, so you'll have time to take the check ride. But don't putz around either...the standards for the check ride may change too.

[HooverPilot]

I'm at 15 years, but it was a good time to get the ATP done. If you have the time/$$$, why not? It just makes the job search during the transition a bit easier if you don't have to worry about adding the ATP.

The rule change that is pending is the one that requires all airline pilot (Captains & First Officer) to be an ATP. Many of the FO's at the regionals do not yet qualify for the ATP and may not be able to get the PIC requirements (1500 hours) before the new rules take effect in 2014. At the same time, the FAA may choose to update & change the ATP standards. Those changes will not make it easier to get an ATP as the requirements are now in the law vs in FAA regs.

[LockheedFix]

Anybody taken the ATP written at an AF education center yet? Is there any harm in showing up and taking it cold since its free? Does your grade show up somewhere the airlines can see it or is it just pass/fail like ACSC, etc?