Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) Certificate

[Homestar]

now that you mention it, I didn't need it for the written either (just DL) but I did have to show it during the practical check (and I think you're supposed to surrender it when they give you the temp ATP)

[Ram]

Thanks, guys. I had just assumed that a cert # was required. I'll call my local test center to verify that I'm G2G w/out it.

[StoleIt]

Has anyone tried to use their regular USAF tuition assistance for an ATP certificate? At say Kirtland or Eglin? Might you have considered using it for the new ATP ground course requirement? The new ATP ground course should have a start/stop class date.

AFI36-2306, 13 AUGUST 2010,

*5.3.2. . Base Aero Club programs that are accredited by an accrediting body recognized by the US Department of Education <inserted question: FAA recognized?> and they have specific term start and end dates.

*5.4.2.5. Flight courses are eligible for Mil TA when provided by an accredited program or institution and they have specific term start and end dates.

5.4.2.1. Guidance regarding lower and equal level of education to one already attained (paragraph 5.5.6.) is waived for certificates/licenses, not to exceed the master’s level.

5.4.2.2. No more than a maximum of the annual 1-year cap shall be used toward completion of a single certificate/license over an Air Force career.

For example, Eglin AFB's Aero Club is a certified 141 school.

This it? https://www.faa.gov/education/student_resources/schools_universities/

Or this? https://www.aabi.aero/

Bumping this question. While I just paid for the ATP written study materials out of pocket it would be nice to know if I could try and use TA for the flying portion of the cert when I get around to it.

[jumpnjive]

Is there generally a long enough gap (sts) between UPT and B courses to take some leave for a ground school and checkride for an ATP cert? I'm scheduled to start UPT this Sept (guard fighter spot with no scheduled IFF or B course dates yet), but only have around 600 hrs as a CFI. I know after UPT I will have the mins for the restricted ATP, I'm just not sure if there would be time within the 2yrs after I take the written to get a checkride in. Would anyone recommend taking it before I leave just in case, or are the odds unlikely that I would be able to cram in (sts) an ATP course while still running the training pipeline, and just use the money to buy booze and hope that in 4 years when my seasoning days end that the FAA has a military exemption to the ATPCP?

[HossHarris]

You can knock the flight out in a weekend. Take the written now

[Kitten Mittens]

Is there generally a long enough gap (sts) between UPT and B courses to take some leave for a ground school and checkride for an ATP cert? I'm scheduled to start UPT this Sept (guard fighter spot with no scheduled IFF or B course dates yet), but only have around 600 hrs as a CFI. I know after UPT I will have the mins for the restricted ATP, I'm just not sure if there would be time within the 2yrs after I take the written to get a checkride in. Would anyone recommend taking it before I leave just in case, or are the odds unlikely that I would be able to cram in (sts) an ATP course while still running the training pipeline, and just use the money to buy booze and hope that in 4 years when my seasoning days end that the FAA has a military exemption to the ATPCP?

I've been told that it's much worse to get a restricted ATP because it takes a lot to get it to a "unrestricted" ATP after the fact.

My advice would be to take the written before the rules change on 31 July, and hopefully you can get the required hours to take a test for an unrestricted ATP…if it doesn't look like you'll get the hours for an unrestricted ATP after 2 years of taking the written, then I've guess you've got no choice but to take a course and get the restricted one.

I guess in your case if you don't start UPT until Sept then you prolly won't get the additional 900 hours required between now and then…but just general advice for the masses from what I've heard.

[brabus]

I've been told that it's much worse to get a restricted ATP because it takes a lot to get it to a "unrestricted" ATP after the fact.

Hmm, 180 from what I've heard: restricted auto-becomes "unrestricted" once you hit 1500 hrs. That said, sounds like we're both operating off of WOMs.

[RTB]

I've been told that it's much worse to get a restricted ATP because it takes a lot to get it to a "unrestricted" ATP after the fact.

According to Part 61.159:

(g) An airline transport pilot certificate obtained under this section is subject to the pilot in command limitations set forth in §61.167(b) and must contain the following limitation, “Restricted in accordance with 14 CFR 61.167.” The pilot is entitled to an airline transport pilot certificate without the limitation specified in this paragraph when the applicant presents satisfactory evidence of having met the aeronautical experience requirements of §61.159 and the age requirement of §61.153(a)(1).

So basically when you can show you have 1500 hours and are old enough, you get your full up ATP.

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=&r=PART&n=14y2.0.1.1.2#14:2.0.1.1.2.7.1.2

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

[AA]

There will be NO military "exemption" from the ATP Certification Training Program (ATPCTP) requirement. This is based on the final rule for The Airline Safety and Federal Aviation Administration Extension Act of 2010 (Pub. L. 111-216).

After 1 August, everyone who wants to take the ATP written for an ATP - Multi-engine certificate will have to show proof of graduation from a FAA approved course. There are several courses with the FAA for final review and approval. Expect to start seeing those courses being advertised soon.

The ATP test will change from the 121/135 format of today to a SEL/MEL format. If you get an ATP ASEL and then want to add AMEL later, you would still have to complete the ATPCTP and take the ATP MEL written exam.

The practical test requirements have not changed.

Edited June 10, 2014 by AA

[brabus]

I think everyone knew that is how it stands NOW. That ruling does not stop any future decisions on a mil-comp ATP. Maybe it happens, maybe it doesn't, but it's certainly a possibility in the future, albeit SEVERAL years best case.

[AA]

There is no provision in the current final rule today allowing for a "mil-comp ATP" written. The FAA administrator, Michael Huerta, has said recently that the FAA has applied the full latitude it believes it has the authority to do as granted by Congress. The military gets the reduced hours required for a restricted ATP certificate (750 total hours for military pilots). I believe that is the best deal military will get.

In working with the FAA on this, they believe that it would take another act of Congress for any additional changes to the ATP rules. As such, I don't see any possibility of a mil-comp ATP.

[Ram]

Hey folks, I'm wondering if ya'll can help. (I'm an ignorant f*ck-up when it comes to FAA stuff...)

I'm in the middle of a PCS, and I want to take the ATP exam to extend the timeline for my practical. Problem is: my PPL certificate/card is nowhere to be found. I may have lost it, or the movers might have packed it. I dunno.

I hear you need to provide your PPL number to take the ATP test, but how does one find that? The FAA website isn't very helpful, claiming that I need to request a new airman certificate by mail (WTF...it's the 21st century), and ain't nobody got time for that.

Is there a number to call or a website I can use to expedite a new cert or get my number quickly? I'd really appreciate the help!

A little help from you bros and some calling of the FSDO in TX answered this question, so thanks for the help.

If you're in the same bo-at as me, just call the license branch at 866-878-2498. Press 1 to enter the menu about airmen certs, then press zero to speak to a real person. He can give you your cert #, as well as walk you through the web registration and process to get a temp/replacement certificate. Piece of cake.

[Kitten Mittens]

Ok...hmm, well I've got close to 3000 hours and I was talking to a lady from a flight school that does 737 type ratings and she said I'd be under the "restricted" based on my lack of multi time. Maybe I misunderstood and it would be a restricted type rating as opposed to a restricted ATP..? Sorry to just add confusion to it all...I'll call her back tomorrow and see if I can get my "facts" straightened out.

[chim richalds]

I'll pile on, a restricted Atp isn't a big deal unless your company requires a full one upon hire. New regs say you need 1000 hours of 121 time to be a pic anyways (500 military can be counted towards this).

[Shaft34]

Ok...hmm, well I've got close to 3000 hours and I was talking to a lady from a flight school that does 737 type ratings and she said I'd be under the "restricted" based on my lack of multi time. Maybe I misunderstood and it would be a restricted type rating as opposed to a restricted ATP..? Sorry to just add confusion to it all...I'll call her back tomorrow and see if I can get my "facts" straightened out.

How much ME time did she say you need? A couple of our guys did the 737 type with me and only had a couple hundred T-38 hours for ME time. Everything else was SEL or powered lift. At some point you flew a ME right? Like a T-37, T-38, T-1, or T-44?

[Smokin]

That doesn't sound right. I know lots of F-16 guys with very little multi-engine time that have ATPs and none of them mentioned anything about a restricted ATP.

[Dupe]

That doesn't sound right. I know lots of F-16 guys with very little multi-engine time that have ATPs and none of them mentioned anything about a restricted ATP.

This whole Restricted ATP concept is only about 2 years old....

[brabus]

Pretty sure you only need 50 ME hours - how is it possible anybody who has gone through UPT doesn't have that...unless you're a helo guy maybe?

[Kitten Mittens]

So a single hour of jet multi time or 500 hrs of prop multi is what makes the difference. T1/T37/T38 guys are set to take 737 type and have no restrictions...but with only 100 hrs of TC-12 time I don't qualify for an unrestricted type rating I guess...we all make life choices, and I guess I made the wrong one...damn!

[Shaft34]

This is off the All ATPs website to enter their ME ATP program (based on FAR 61.159)

1500 hrs TT

- 500 XC

- 100 Night

- 75 Inst (Actual or Sim) (50 hrs in an airplane)

- 250 PIC Airplane

- 50 MEL

I fail to see how you don't qualify. Maybe you need to look into another school. Also, how do you complete 100 hrs of TC-12 training and end up with no other multi time with 3k hours? T-6 and U-28s or something? More information with regards to your flying history would help us help you.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Shaft34

[Kitten Mittens]

Yeah, PC12s. It's not a restricted ATP, it's a restricted 737 type rating...the ATP would be unrestricted.

Totally gummed that one up guys, sorry, I completely misunderstood the lady when I talked to her the first time... Thanks for the help and getting it all cleared up

[Royal]

Yeah, PC12s. It's not a restricted ATP, it's a restricted 737 type rating...the ATP would be unrestricted.

Totally gummed that one up guys, sorry, I completely misunderstood the lady when I talked to her the first time... Thanks for the help and getting it all cleared up

So what's the actual restriction? Will they only give you an SIC type?

[nunya]

So what's the actual restriction? Will they only give you an SIC type?

Not exactly. It's called the "Supervised Operating Experience" restriction. If you don't meet these you get it:

(4) To complete all training and testing (except preflight inspection) for an additional airplane rating without limitations when using a flight simulator--

(i) The flight simulator must be qualified and approved as Level C or Level D; and

(ii) The applicant must meet at least one of the following:

(A) Hold a type rating for a turbojet airplane of the same class of airplane for which the type rating is sought, or have been appointed by a military service as a pilot in command of an airplane of the same class of airplane for which the type rating is sought, if a type rating in a turbojet airplane is sought.

(C ) Have at least 2,000 hours of flight time, of which 500 hours is in turbine-powered airplanes of the same class of airplane for which the type rating is sought.

(D) Have at least 500 hours of flight time in the same type airplane as the airplane for which the rating is sought.

(E) Have at least 1,000 hours of flight time in at least two different airplanes requiring a type rating.

So a single engine fighter guy won't have a type in a Multi-Engine Land airplane and won't have been an AC in a military MEL. He can qualify under C if he did 500 hours in MC-12s or some other multi-engine land airplane.

You can get the restriction removed after 15 or 25 hours of acting as PIC under the supervision of a qualified PIC. So basically it doesn't matter because you'll get it removed when you upgrade to Captain.

It's all here if you want to read it: https://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/0/F7DF5EE953BA576186256EE0006FD4D6?OpenDocument

Edited June 12, 2014 by nunya

[Royal]

Not exactly. It's called the "Supervised Operating Experience" restriction. If you don't meet these you get it

Good find; I hadn't heard of that before.

[Herk Driver]

Anyone know a good place to take the ATP written in the Montgomery AL area?

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!