Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) Certificate

[whall85]

I took the written several months ago and the only rating I had was a PPL. So to answer your original questions, no - you don't need any ratings in order to take the ATP written or practical. I might be wrong on this but the content of the practical may be different if you don't have any other ratings (e.g. - you'll have to fly a Vmca demo).

To be more clear, you don't need any ratings OR hours to take the ATP written. You do need a drivers license.

Copy all.

To rephrase my second paragraph: When the time comes (sts), is there any way an FAA examiner can bar me from taking the ATP Practical checkride because I completed my ATP written prior to earning a commercial license?

Edited July 20, 2014 by whall85

[Craftsman]

Just took the written earlier today. Sheppard Air is awesome! Especially for someone that hasn't flown in almost 4 years. (Thank you preds)

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

[Smokin]

You have to already have a commercial license in order to do the practical ATP exam as it was explained to me by Sheppard Air. But for military, you just need to go take the commercial test. You can take the ATP written to make the cutoff, then go take the commercial written, then go do the ATP practical within two years.

[Champ Kind]

Do you need a PPL to get a commercial?

[nunya]

Edit: Nevermind - I was wrong.

Edited July 21, 2014 by nunya

[HercDude]

You have to already have a commercial license in order to do the practical ATP exam ......

No. This is not true. Again, the only rating I had prior to taking the ATP written was a PPL. 2 months later I took the practical. I currently have an ATP, and I never had a commercial certificate.

[nunya]

No. This is not true. Again, the only rating I had prior to taking the ATP written was a PPL. 2 months later I took the practical. I currently have an ATP, and I never had a commercial certificate.

You cropped out his "But for military" part, which I'm almost certain is how you pulled off your PPL-ATP. So you didn't even do the mil-comp commercial written?

[Cap-10]

I know someone who had zero civilians ratings...never took a mil-comp anything.

At the 19.69 yr point of flying fighters, he went to Accessible and did the ground study, written, and practical in one week.

He still has nothing on the SE side, just the ATP-ME.

Cap-10

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net iOS App!

[HercDude]

You cropped out his "But for military" part, which I'm almost certain is how you pulled off your PPL-ATP. So you didn't even do the mil-comp commercial written?

No, I never took the mil-comp commercial. I went from a PPL (SE-land) to an ATP (ME-Land).

I quoted what I did because what Smokin says, and nunya validates as "correct" is actually false. IAW CFR 61.153, one who meets the military requirements in CFR 61.73 does not "have to already have a commercial license in order to do the practical ATP exam", nor do they "just need to go take the commercial test." I'm trying to make it clear to anyone who reads through this thread that a military pilot that satisfies the requirements of CFR 61.73 does not need to get a commercial rating or take the mil-comp commercial test in order to take the ATP written or practical.

[Butters]

To be more clear, you don't need any ratings OR hours to take the ATP written. You do need a drivers license.

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

Wrong, you need ID and proof of address. I have a FL DL with my home of.... Awe fuck it. You guys do whatever you want.

[hindsight2020]

Wrong, you need ID and proof of address. I have a FL DL with my home of.... Awe fuck it. You guys do whatever you want.

Why would you of all people ever bother posting in the ATP thread, ya closet airline wannabe :D

/tc

[Smokin]

Good to know that you don't need the commercial. I was just repeating what Sheppard Air told me since I figured they knew what they were talking about. This just saved me the time and money studying for the commercial after I knock out the ATP test next week. Is there any reason to get a commercial if you're already going to get the ATP? How about the CFII?

[Butters]

Why would you of all people ever bother posting in the ATP thread, ya closet airline wannabe :D

/tc

Still need an ATP to fly for other companies that are a hell of a lot better than the airlines.

[whall85]

No, I never took the mil-comp commercial. I went from a PPL (SE-land) to an ATP (ME-Land).

I quoted what I did because what Smokin says, and nunya validates as "correct" is actually false. IAW CFR 61.153, one who meets the military requirements in CFR 61.73 does not "have to already have a commercial license in order to do the practical ATP exam", nor do they "just need to go take the commercial test." I'm trying to make it clear to anyone who reads through this thread that a military pilot that satisfies the requirements of CFR 61.73 does not need to get a commercial rating or take the mil-comp commercial test in order to take the ATP written or practical.

Awesome! Thanks the for the info.

[Domo]

Mobile may be booked up for the ATP, but search the testing centers w/ Sheppardair website w/in 100 miles of Maxwell and you'll find several. I just booked mine for 30 July at the War Eagle Testing Facility in Auburn; ~60 miles away (way closer than Mobile). They said they're open all next week. Took 5 minutes to schedule 10 minutes to register with the phone hold time. $150. Studying now with Sheppardair and it's good so far.

Domo

[FLY6584]

Still need an ATP to fly for other companies that are a hell of a lot better than the airlines.

Haha! Keep telling yourself that. Tool.

[Muscle2002]

Haha! Keep telling yourself that. Tool.

For once Butters is right. Lots of civilian test pilot (and non-test) jobs require (some highly desire) that you have an ATP. I cannot speak to which company is better than another, but it seems likely the flying is better.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Muscle2002

[FLY6584]

You keep telling YOURSELF that. Tool.

Muscle2002 knows what's up. The flying is better and you are home every night, thought that is why you guys were leaving the AF.. There is a fairly nice company in the Pacific Northwest that designs and builds aircraft, about 50 a month. They operate under Part 91 but have 121 requirements for the pilots. Coolest thing about this company is you only need the ATP written. They let you do the ATP check for free during your checkride at the end of your training program.

Coming from the guy who feels it is necessary to constantly bash on Airline guys for some reason. I don't know if your parents ever taught you this, but someone with that kind of attitude generally has deep rooted feelings of jealousy. It's ok though... keep telling yourself that you know everything about the Airlines. If you want to go fly for a Part 91 operation in the Northwest flying new aircraft every day then go for it... it sounds fun and you won't hear me bash it, to each their own, but quit bashing the guys who know eventually after they do their time at a Legacy they will have the seniority to spend 2/3 of the month at home with their families not even thinking about work and plenty of income to enjoy that time with them. Flying is fun, but it's not everything anymore. I value family time and a stress free life as I get older which is why I took the VSP and will never look back.

Edited July 25, 2014 by FLY6584

[hindsight2020]

You keep telling YOURSELF that. Tool.

Muscle2002 knows what's up. The flying is better and you are home every night, thought that is why you guys were leaving the AF.. There is a fairly nice company in the Pacific Northwest that designs and builds aircraft, about 50 a month. They operate under Part 91 but have 121 requirements for the pilots. Coolest thing about this company is you only need the ATP written. They let you do the ATP check for free during your checkride at the end of your training program.

Ok, this comparison needs to get qualified, because at face value it's complete bullshit.

The current CP of the BBJ division at Boeing was a squadronmate of mine at the old unit. Interesting stories about delivery flights to China and Saudi, and the gucci lifestyle. That civilian gig is nice indeed. What it is also, is extremely rare of a position and the result of multi-decade networking and hovering around the manufacturer. But of course, that tidbit gets swept under the rug when making these comparisons. To be fair, by VOLUME, manufacturer pilot jobs are to top-4 121 carrier pilot jobs what ONE Miss America pageant is to JCPenney retail positions nationally. It would be rather foolish to put all your eggs in that teeny tiny basket.

Also, a distinction needs to be made between delivery/training pilots and test pilots. I looked into the latter and frankly was rather underwhelmed with their aggregate compensation, for the level of box-checking competitiveness they require on paper. A knuckledragging airline pilot beats the lifetime earnings of a test pilot by quite a bit, with less employer turnover, which is crazy considering we're talking about unstable airline jobs in the first place. Test pilots suffer from the same career nomadism and job loss as company pedestrian engineers, and require willingness to relocate to stay gainfully involved in the industry. This, to avert the alternative of switching to printer toners across the street 'cause mama is sick of moving every 5-7 years because you insist on having 'aerospace' attached to your pedestrian job label. So it's completely inaccurate to suggest test gigs are homestead central. From my conversations with some of them, it seems one becomes a test pilot because one like to geek out about 32nd decimal place validations of the 20th iteration of a 737/Bombadiér, for 90K median. Outside of new materials and avionics, there's nothing flight dynamics relevant about airplanes anymore, but I digress.

At any rate, these jobs are separate and apart from the delivery/training pilot jobs you're probably referring to, which are gucci indeed. Also let's disclose that mother Boeing is indeed undercutting the luxury of that job, as they continue to utilize contract positions (read: walmart benefits) to fly their iron. Cool if you have Uncle Sugar medical/retirement benefits, not so cool if you don't. So things are not all that rosy on that side either, and we're talking about less than 1000 jobs worth of access here between manufacturers, not 5,000+ like in the airlines.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/2012-09-12/boeing-pilots-protest-use-contractors-train-787-crews

In the end, there's plus and minuses to every job, but to me, a job I can only speak of getting is not a good job at all. Median expectations are what matters in the end; I just don't think it's fair to juxtapose a dozen six-figure equipment manufacturer jobs at any given time to thousands of six figure 121 carrier positions. I think most people here are more likely to get a job with Delta than they are to get a job delivering BBJs for the manufacturer, with otherwise IDENTICAL resumes. We are carbon copies of each other, here in blue Shawshank. But hey, if you got [regular/sugar]daddy/mommy on the board and one of these gigs is waiting for ya after you're done with the 20 year Air Force combat desk deployment kabuki, I'm certainly not gonna hate on that. Talking to my old squadron bud, that's one hell of a job you'd be getting into. Good luck to all.

[Champ Kind]

Dude, what's your problem?

[fou]

Why is everyone getting upset by what Butters says?! For one, who cares! If that is what his idea of a good QoL is, so be it. In fact, I bet most everyone that is getting pissy about his comments are airline/future airline types. Him not going the airline route is actually beneficial; one less guy clogging up the pool of applicants for the majors. Let him speak and maybe he will convince some others to follow his lead. Just my $.02

[ChkHandleDn]

I just finished the ATP practical and MEI add-on with Sanders Aviation in Jasper, AL. Highly recommended. Be sure to stay in the trailer.

Edited August 24, 2014 by ChkHandleDn

[chim richalds]

Butters- you insist on saying "bankrupt" every time you say airlines. Between 121 carriers and the USAF, which one is aggressively hiring and which one is offering severance packages for pilots to quit?

[Dupe]

Just to add a data point to the conversation:

I was offered a civilian job with a defense/commercial aerospace company with large plants in both Seattle and St Louis. The job was in the flight test department. Once I really compared the benefits, I found staying in to be the better path.

[jumpnjive]

With only 4 more days until the ATP-CTP becomes a requirement for the written, I've been trying to see if anyone has a course up and running for it, and what the cost is. I've found that ATP is offering it for 8k. My question is, I understand that it is only for the written endorsement, but will the training and sim time prepare you to be able to take the check ride in that sim? If so, with another hour of sim time and a DPE fee, the price might not be that much higher than an ATP prep course and check ride in an aircraft. Also, if you could take the check ride in the sim, wouldn't you also get the type rating for that sim? I have mine completed already so it's not a factor for me. Just curious.