flyusaf83 Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 I just finished my ATP written, and I'm trying to figure out where to do the practical. Getting a 737 type rating sounds great to me, but I'm not sure if it's worth the trouble and the cost. So what is the worth of a 737 type rating? Does it mean much to the airlines? If it's no big deal, I'll probably just go as cheap and easy as possible. Thanks.
sputnik Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 It's kinda sorta required at SWA. No one else cares (so far as I can tell). So, if you want to work for Southwest, it makes sense. If you don't, doesn't really matter.
C-21.Pilot Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 If you guys are Facebook peeps, check out The Pilot Network group..... Lot's of guys with fresh perspectives, recent hires, etc all sharing great info. 90% are military pilots. https://www.facebook.com/groups/ThePilotNetwork/
Flare Posted April 3, 2014 Posted April 3, 2014 Anyone heard from or used Bob from Boston recently? He's being harder to get ahold of than normal....which is somewhat difficult to begin with. Squadron mate has had zero luck...just checking to see if he's still in business.
brabus Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 All military flight time counts as cross country flight time. I've had two different FSDOs (Lincoln, NE & Scottsdale, AZ) tell me this. The FARs do clearly state for purpose of getting an ATP or commercial rating ("qualifying military pilot") you do not require a landing more than 50 NM from the point of departure. Landings do matter for private, instrument or commercial ("non-military") ratings. So my question is, what do civilian 121/135 jobs care about when looking at time? If asked the question in the future, "how much XC time do you have?", do I answer with my time that does not include landings (i.e. every military flight and my civilian XC time before UPT) or only with my time that included landings other than point of departure? I ask because right now my logbook only has XC time logged when I landed elsewhere, but I'm debating whether I should correct it to include all my mil time or do I just use one of the blank columns to effectively be my "here's so I can get my ATP" XC time and leave the "legit" XC time column alone.
HuggyU2 Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 If asked the question in the future, "how much XC time do you have?".... If you are ever in an interview that asks you that question... a. You are doing it wrong. Raise your standards. b. You need to stand up and leave that interview... run as fast as you can. c. re-evaluate what you are looking for in a career job, as a pilot with quality turbine time. d. tell your friends what happened so they will not make that bad choice also. e. All of the above. E. 1 1
SocialD Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 I just finished my ATP written, and I'm trying to figure out where to do the practical. Getting a 737 type rating sounds great to me, but I'm not sure if it's worth the trouble and the cost. So what is the worth of a 737 type rating? Does it mean much to the airlines? If it's no big deal, I'll probably just go as cheap and easy as possible. Thanks. As guys have already state, SWA is interviewing and hiring w/o the type. Unless SWA is your must go to airline, I would consider not dropping the cash. A 737 type w/ 0 time send a signal to all the other airlines of where you want to get hired. I'm not saying this is you, but it seems everyone on/coming off AD has a hard on for SWA and getting their 737 type. Even guys who have two major airlines based in their home town/desired city to live in...I'm not sure why. SWA is a great company but DAL/UAL/AA are all solid companies (w/ potentially LOTS more movement than SWA) and are hiring plenty of guys w/o types. *Standard caveat that the whole industry is a crapshoot (to appease Butters)! Unless you have all the education you want and don't plan on passing it on to a wife or kids, I wouldn't waste any G.I. Bill $$$ on a 737 type (or ATP for that matter). An ATP doesn't cost that much, especially if you look around. Also, remember you can transfer it to your wife/kids and serve out the commitment in the Guard/Reserve. Not applicable to any single Captain who is blowing all his cash on hookers, cars, booze, boats, etc. You're probably scrapping by on that senior captain pay... Anyone heard from or used Bob from Boston recently? He's being harder to get ahold of than normal....which is somewhat difficult to begin with. Squadron mate has had zero luck...just checking to see if he's still in business. Had a squadron mate get his ATP from that guy. But others in the squadron have not had any luck contacting him lately. The FARs do clearly state for purpose of getting an ATP or commercial rating ("qualifying military pilot") you do not require a landing more than 50 NM from the point of departure. Landings do matter for private, instrument or commercial ("non-military") ratings. So my question is, what do civilian 121/135 jobs care about when looking at time? If asked the question in the future, "how much XC time do you have?", do I answer with my time that does not include landings (i.e. every military flight and my civilian XC time before UPT) or only with my time that included landings other than point of departure? I ask because right now my logbook only has XC time logged when I landed elsewhere, but I'm debating whether I should correct it to include all my mil time or do I just use one of the blank columns to effectively be my "here's so I can get my ATP" XC time and leave the "legit" XC time column alone. When I was got my ATP, "on paper" I didn't have 500 hours of X/C time, so the examiner noted that I didn't have enough X/C time. I told him every flight in the Viper is X/C, so he told me to add it to my logbook. Thankfully, I brought my computer with logbook pro on it, and all I did was add in X/C time for every flight in the Viper until I hit 500 hours. The FAA are really the only ones that care about X/C time. If you are ever in an interview that asks you that question... a. You are doing it wrong. Raise your standards. b. You need to stand up and leave that interview... run as fast as you can. c. re-evaluate what you are looking for in a career job, as a pilot with quality turbine time. d. tell your friends what happened so they will not make that bad choice also. e. All of the above. E. Shack!
Dupe Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 Half the battle there is finding the DPEs who understand the carve-outs for military dudes in the FARs. The reality is that of the average check-ride work load of a DPE, the ATP to a mil dude just isn't that common. There are a few who have made this their core business... find them. 1
Bull-Mi-Dah Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 I just finished my ATP cert with ATP flight school in Richmond. The three day course was efficient and big picture (especially for military). Day 1 was the written, they provide a 600 question study guide that was spot on. On day 2 there were 1 sim and 2 x siminole flights practicing the check ride profile and day three was the check ride. They also provide an oral study guide that covered any and all questions. Overall, if you are currently within driving distance of Richmond, I would recommend this program. Total cost $3345. For fighter guys, I put all military time as XC time and no one said a thing.
Crewdog135 Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 I did my ATP a couple of weekends ago at Central Missouri University just outside of Whiteman. I can highly recommend. Instructor is a retired B-52 and T-38 type and a good guy. The FE is the chief pilot for the CMU flight program, not a military background, but he was big-picture and fair. It went really well, even though I'd never flown the Seminole before. Anyone wanting more info, let me know.
HuggyU2 Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 I did my ATP a couple of weekends ago at Central Missouri University just outside of Whiteman. I can highly recommend. Instructor is a retired B-52 and T-38 type and a good guy. Yes, Scott is honest, and very meticulous. I flew with him for 3 years at PIT, and would highly recommend him, based on that.
Flare Posted April 7, 2014 Posted April 7, 2014 Had a squadron mate get his ATP from that guy. But others in the squadron have not had any luck contacting him lately. Any idea how recently that happened?
booze Posted April 20, 2014 Posted April 20, 2014 Did my ATP at RVS in Tulsa this weekend. Went well. PM me for details if interested sts.
HuggyU2 Posted April 20, 2014 Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) OK,... let's speculate. 1. How long until military pilots begin to get their ATPs under the new rules? Sure, there will be a few that porked it away and didn't get the ATP written done by 31 July, and then realize they need it. And, of course,... starting 1 Aug 2016, it will be everyone. But will ATP business pick up sooner? Or later? 2. How much will an ATP cost in the new environment? Discuss. Edited April 20, 2014 by Huggyu2
Butters Posted April 20, 2014 Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) 1. The way I read it the requirements that start 1 Aug 2014 are to take the written and/or the Flight Check. So getting the written done before the change may not do you any good. Am I wrong? 2. They have already said it will be north of 20K. I still believe the FAA will come to their senses and say that the training Military pilots receive throughout their career meets the new standard, even though military training programs and Sims are not Part 141. I do not mean this to say we will get an ATP mil equivalent, I mean it will be business as usual when you reach ATP mins.... Written, then flight check. Edited April 20, 2014 by Butters
MTC Posted April 20, 2014 Posted April 20, 2014 1. The way I read it the requirements that start 1 Aug 2014 are to take the written and/or the Flight Check. So getting the written done before the change may not do you any good. Am I wrong? You might be right. I have been under the impression that as long as I took the written before July 31 I would have two years to take the practical and would not have to ever take the ATP CTP, since it is a pre-req for the written which I took a couple months ago. So the question is after 1 Aug will the Flight Check look for my CTP completion too, or call it good if he sees my written is done? Anybody have a solid answer here, or are we all just speculating? I'm stationed overseas but headed to the SIM very soon, so I guess the safest option is to take a few days of leave after the Sim and get this knocked out somewhere. The Memphis place or Jasper, AL would be the most convenient.
chim richalds Posted April 20, 2014 Posted April 20, 2014 All of my research backs up what MTC is saying. Take the written by July 31, get grandfathered in for 2 more years to take the old syllabus.
Homestar Posted April 20, 2014 Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) FAR 61.153 (e) After July 31, 2014, for an airline transport pilot certificate with an airplane category multiengine class rating or an airline transport pilot certificate obtained concurrently with an airplane type rating, receive a graduation certificate from an authorized training provider certifying completion of the airline transport pilot certification training program specified in §61.156 before applying for the knowledge test required by paragraph (g) of this section; It states that the graduation certificate is required prior to applying for the knowledge test (written ATP). If you've completed the knowledge test you have 24 months to complete the practical test. If you complete the written before August 1, 2014 you have 24 months to take the practical. (Edit to Add:) (d) An applicant who successfully completes the knowledge test for an airline transport pilot certificate prior to August 1, 2014, must successfully complete the practical test within 24 months from the month in which the knowledge test was successfully completed. An applicant who passes the knowledge test prior to August 1, 2014, but fails to successfully complete the practical test within 24 months must complete the airline transport pilot certification training program specified in §61.156 and retake the knowledge test prior to applying for the practical test. Edited April 20, 2014 by Homestar
Butters Posted April 20, 2014 Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) Well, that sounds better. The Sheppard Air site says "New prerequisites for the ATP practical test go into effect on August 1, 2014. The links below will provide you with more information:" It is either semantics or fear mongering to make money. After 1 Aug 2016 I think the FAA's new rule is unsustainable. There was an article posted here earlier that talked about the requirement that the CTP ground school instructors must have an ATP. Where are they going to find people with an ATP willing to work for what ground schools pay? If they pay them more, how much more are schools going to cost? Who are "they"? "They" are AOPA and my bad, they (AOPA) said 20K. Go back to page 10 some of the articles are posted there. Edited April 20, 2014 by Butters
BolterKing Posted April 20, 2014 Posted April 20, 2014 You can bang out an ATP in a weekend. If you think you want to fly after you get out, shell out the cash and get it done now. Do not waste your money on a 737 type. 2
HuggyU2 Posted April 20, 2014 Posted April 20, 2014 Well, that sounds better. The Sheppard Air site says "New prerequisites for the ATP practical test go into effect on August 1, 2014. The links below will provide you with more information:" It is either semantics or fear mongering to make money. No, it is your poor reading comprehension. The PREREQUISITES for the practical ARE what we are discussing. THIS is what the change is primarily about. You have to do the new prep after 31 July. There is no conspiracy to steal your money by Sheppard Air.
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