Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) Certificate

[MTC]

From FAR 61.155

(Edit to Add:) (d) An applicant who successfully completes the knowledge test for an airline transport pilot certificate prior to August 1, 2014, must successfully complete the practical test within 24 months from the month in which the knowledge test was successfully completed. An applicant who passes the knowledge test prior to August 1, 2014, but fails to successfully complete the practical test within 24 months must complete the airline transport pilot certification training program specified in §61.156 and retake the knowledge test prior to applying for the practical test.

Perfect, that's the paragraph I was looking for in the CFRs. Thanks. That said I still plan on taking it next week. Anybody have experience with any Little Rock places? I have heard good things but only third-hand.

[Dupe]

I still believe the FAA will come to their senses and say that the training Military pilots receive throughout their career meets the new standard, even though military training programs and Sims are not Part 141. I do not mean this to say we will get an ATP mil equivalent, I mean it will be business as usual when you reach ATP mins.... Written, then flight check.

I think it will go the other way: the airlines will provide this training. The new ATP requirements just aren't that different from what's already required for a type rating and the pilot new-hire process at every airline. Hopefully, in two years, guys won't be spending money or burning their GI Bill to get an ATP before punching.

Let's be real: a weekend in a Seminole will probably not bring anyone to a professional pilot level of capability if they weren't there already.

[HerkStud]

Does anybody know if you can take the practical with 750 mil hours or is it only the written? I called allatps.com and they said I couldn't take the ATP practical without 1,500 hours. The guy himself didn't sound very confident with his answer though.

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[jazzdude]

No hour requirement for the written. 750hrs for the restricted ATP practical. I think the CFR reference is already posted earlier. Worth looking it up and telling them what part/paragraph shows the restricted ATP stuff. If they won't play ball, take your business elsewhere.

Edit: Other time doesn't count towards the hour requirement.

Edited April 22, 2014 by jazzdude

[scudrunner12]

That's 750 hrs "Total" time. Cessna 152 through c-17 copilot, correct?

And I'm living proof that you don't need 750hrs to take the written.

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[fou]

Does anybody know if you can take the practical with 750 mil hours or is it only the written? I called allatps.com and they said I couldn't take the ATP practical without 1,500 hours. The guy himself didn't sound very confident with his answer though.

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

Yes, you can take the practical at 750 hrs for the mil restricted ATP.

I was about 75 hrs shy of 1500 and now have a mil restricted ATP (through an airline, however)

[Royal]

Does anybody know if you can take the practical with 750 mil hours or is it only the written? I called allatps.com and they said I couldn't take the ATP practical without 1,500 hours. The guy himself didn't sound very confident with his answer though.

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

FAR 61.159 and FAR 61.160

[LockheedFix]

From FAR 61.155

Perfect, that's the paragraph I was looking for in the CFRs. Thanks. That said I still plan on taking it next week. Anybody have experience with any Little Rock places? I have heard good things but only third-hand.

Save yourself a grand by taking two days of leave and driving over to Downtown Aviation at General Dewitt Spain Airport in Memphis. You'll have to go during the week, but I highly recommend it. I just did it over there two weeks ago, so I can send you some current gouge if you PM me your .mil address. It cost me $1750 including the $300 cash to the examiner. They were booked through September when I called so google them and book it ASAP. I recommend taking a friend to defray some of the cost and to get some extra time learning the plane (they let you sit in the back seat and watch).

[di1630]

Anyone know of a good place in the DC area to do a ATP check?

[ATG]

Quick crystal ball perspective/question:

Has anyone here with a restricted ATP with 750tt been hired at an airline recently? I ask because while it is the minimums, it might be helpful for a prospective Guard guy with previous flying time after seasoning to get eyes on. I am not sure that my aviation degree suffices the new regulations (I have to look that up)..

Also, ME centerline thrust restriction to the add-on: if a civillian pilot holds a previously unrestricted ME does the centerline thrust time he would potentially log count as straight ME PIC (if it is PIC) in the eyes of the FAA? Or would it be/have to be differentiated (another column in the logbook basically)?

[F16Rooster]

The regionals are basically hiring anyone that meets FAA requirements...even if they have to add .3 per sortie for taxi time to get to that 750 (totally legal and legit but shows how desperate the regionals are to get people). I don't know anyone that already had a restricted ATP BEFORE they got hired though because the sim check counts as your ATP practical.

[tunes]

The regionals are basically hiring anyone that meets FAA requirements...even if they have to add .3 per sortie for taxi time to get to that 750 (totally legal and legit but shows how desperate the regionals are to get people). I don't know anyone that already had a restricted ATP BEFORE they got hired though because the sim check counts as your ATP practical.

Pretty sure you can't do the added .3 per sortie when getting your times for a faa rating. My understanding is there is no reg that allows that and it is airline specific for hiring purposes only.

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[SocialD]

Pretty sure you can't do the added .3 per sortie when getting your times for a faa rating. My understanding is there is no reg that allows that and it is airline specific for hiring purposes only.

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If you want to get technical about it, you could note the time you started and the time you shut down and log that in your own personal logbook. I know that would add, at least, an extra .6 per sortie for me. Most GA aircraft log this way, and most airlines log break release (at push, or just prior...)/beacon on/etc..., to engine shutdown. You bet your ass your civilian counterparts are logging everything on the hobbs meter, which if I remember correctly, runs off oil pressure as soon as the engine is started. I've always logged block time in the airlines, which means from brake release to engine shutdown. So that 1 hour wait to takeoff at LGA...logged.

You do not have to present the FAA with your AF flight records as long as you have kept your own logbook. I would say you are well within your rights to log in this manor. You're just putting yourself on par with everyone outside of the military as far as time toward a certificate or rating.

Different story when applying to airlines, do exactly what they say.

Edited May 6, 2014 by SocialD

[ATG]

That makes sense, basically what I was implying was a military pilot with 750TT and 50ME can potentially get hired by an airline because they meet the minimum requirements set forth by the FAA, but not those applying to meet the regular requirements set forth by the airline for those who are not military/prior or have lower requirements for age, time, and certain degrees. It is a bit of a stretch on my part, because for the most part airlines minimums seem to reflect the final rule going into effect. That is why I am bringing this up. Minimums might just be minimums regardless of having a restricted ATP via the military requirements, even though it satisfies the FAA to get into a 121 cockpit.

As far as adding .3 to a sortie, I believe you can depending on the airline, and possibly to meet their minimums. Under that pretext, I would assume it is because of the definition of flight time in section 1.1, then the resulting requirements after set forth in part 61.51 (Pilot logbooks and logging flight time).

The point being, monitor flight times separately, then combine and add if allowed by a certain airline. Corporate; no idea, I will ask around.

[Royal]

That makes sense, basically what I was implying was a military pilot with 750TT and 50ME can potentially get hired by an airline because they meet the minimum requirements set forth by the FAA, but not those applying to meet the regular requirements set forth by the airline for those who are not military/prior or have lower requirements for age, time, and certain degrees. It is a bit of a stretch on my part, because for the most part airlines minimums seem to reflect the final rule going into effect. That is why I am bringing this up. Minimums might just be minimums regardless of having a restricted ATP via the military requirements, even though it satisfies the FAA to get into a 121 cockpit.

As far as adding .3 to a sortie, I believe you can depending on the airline, and possibly to meet their minimums. Under that pretext, I would assume it is because of the definition of flight time in section 1.1, then the resulting requirements after set forth in part 61.51 (Pilot logbooks and logging flight time).

The point being, monitor flight times separately, then combine and add if allowed by a certain airline. Corporate; no idea, I will ask around.

Last time I looked, the legacy carriers on AirlineApps don't recognize restricted ATPs; they only allow you to claim your ATP if it's full up. Can't speak for PilotCredentials, but my guess is that it's similar.

[TreeA10]

I think my record for logging non-flight flight time is 7 hours 17 minutes to fly from Tampa to Miami. Brake release to brake parked.

[ATG]

Roger, I appreciate the insight.

[Toro]

Save yourself a grand by taking two days of leave and driving over to Downtown Aviation at General Dewitt Spain Airport in Memphis. You'll have to go during the week, but I highly recommend it. I just did it over there two weeks ago, so I can send you some current gouge if you PM me your .mil address. It cost me $1750 including the $300 cash to the examiner. They were booked through September when I called so google them and book it ASAP. I recommend taking a friend to defray some of the cost and to get some extra time learning the plane (they let you sit in the back seat and watch).

Second this - just finished and I would highly recommend it. It's a pretty push-it-up profile and studying ahead of time will pay off with both the ground and flight portions. I plan on updating the current gouge with some updated cockpit pictures and expanding on the GK info - will try to get it posted here in the next week or so.

[brabus]

I would say you are well within your rights to log in this manor. You're just putting yourself on par with everyone outside of the military as far as time toward a certificate or rating.

Different story when applying to airlines, do exactly what they say.

The more I think about this, it would be completely legit to add a .5 to every sortie covering the "brake release to takeoff" and "land to shutdown" time we don't typically log in the AF to be inline with what every civilian pilot logs. However doing so would negate adding .3/sortie (for example) on an airline app. Do you think Airlines would raise an eyebrow if you told them you weren't adding .3 because you already logged your time IAW the FAA definitions? I imagine it would catch their eye that a mil dude chose to not make the correction factor, but I don't see any issues with doing this. Why not log a .5 now instead of relying on a .3 correction factor later?

[SocialD]

The more I think about this, it would be completely legit to add a .5 to every sortie covering the "brake release to takeoff" and "land to shutdown" time we don't typically log in the AF to be inline with what every civilian pilot logs. However doing so would negate adding .3/sortie (for example) on an airline app. Do you think Airlines would raise an eyebrow if you told them you weren't adding .3 because you already logged your time IAW the FAA definitions? I imagine it would catch their eye that a mil dude chose to not make the correction factor, but I don't see any issues with doing this. Why not log a .5 now instead of relying on a .3 correction factor later?

With Delta, United and AA, you do NOT add any correction when you input your times because the website does it for you. So when applying for airlines I would go with what is in your AF flight records, unless their application specifically says to add a conversion. I know AA has you bring your flight records folder to the interview.

The only reason I would add time to my logbook would be if I were stuck on AD (ie...won't be interviewing anytime soon), was short on hours (but close) and I wanted to get my ATP under the current FARs. Others may disagree, but I don't see anything ethically wrong with this based on the fact that all your civilian counterparts are logging time the same way. I would use the least amount of conversion needed to get to 1,500 and probably wouldn't go above .5/sortie. I am by no means a lawyer or a fed, but I think it stands the common sense test. Thoughts?

The reason I would not add .5/sortie on my own, FOR AIRLINES is because the airlines will most likely ask for your flight records. Airlines understand fighter guys won't have as much time as their civilian counterparts. For example, I got an interview at a Major with <2,000 TT with over 50% of my time being in fighters. In my interview group, all the mil heavy guys had >3,000 and all the civilian were >4-5,000. I wouldn't feel like you're lagging your civilian counterparts, trust me, you're not. I have lots of friends that are pure civilian that have over 5-6,000 hours and haven't heard a peep from the the majors.

Edited May 7, 2014 by SocialD

[Vetter]

You'll pique the interest of the hiring boards if you don't bring your printed off flight records. I brought my big green folder and a 1 page summary and they asked no questions. By the way, on my summary page, I had my straight total and my total with the allowed .3/sortie added. Don't try to game it. You either have the min hours or not. There is less emphasis on hours for military guys.

[tunes]

so i should bring my printed off flight records to an airline interview even though I've put all my mil stuff in Log Ten Pro to go along with my civilian stuff?

[SocialD]

so i should bring my printed off flight records to an airline interview even though I've put all my mil stuff in Log Ten Pro to go along with my civilian stuff?

My interview invite specifically said to bring your AF flight records folder. I have my own military logbook, but left it at home in lieu of my official flight records. Each airline has their own guidelines. Bring both if you want, they'll take what they need.

[HossHarris]

so i should bring my printed off flight records to an airline interview even though I've put all my mil stuff in Log Ten Pro to go along with my civilian stuff?

Bring your L10 as well to answer logbook questions that would be a PITA to manually figure. (How many night, solo, XC, SIC hours south of the equator?)

[blake]

Anyone have any actual contact info for this "guy in Boston" that does ATPs? Searched through this whole thread and internet and haven't found so much as a name.