Order of Merit

[Guest future16driver]

Anybody know if one can go about getting his order of merit? Just curious b/c i would like to know if i am compettive for ENJJPT. I dont think this is info the cadre would hand out, but maybe AFPC would tell you if ya called?

Any Insight?

[Guest Dirt Beater]

I wouldn't count on it, man. Besides, the last time (the only time) I called them, I got fried because apparently cadets are NOT supposed to be calling down there, rather using our chain of command to have our questions answered. They'll ask what detachment you're from and they might call up there and say "Hey, Cadet future16driver tried calling looking for this info, etc" and then you'll get bent over by your PAS. I would just use the OM formula and try to guess where you ranked in your class to see if you were competitive. Hope that helps...I'm biting my nails right there with ya!

[Guest pcampbell]

Yeah, calling AFPC about stuff like that when you are still a cadet is bad, bad juju.

You can guesstimate your OM easily if you know your class size. The only thing the cadre doesn't tell you is your class rank. Ask them, and they may give you something general like top third, mid third, etc.

[ghost_ttu]

Just to toss a curve ball, my PAS did give me my OM. And my ranking. Anyway I calculate it using "the formula" it comes out about 6 points lower than what he told me my OM is. I've been told that there is a possibility that having a ppl, and a degree will give you more points. I'm a graduate student, so that is possible.

[Guest marklyerly]

My PAS said he won't tell us our class ranking but that we can always check our records later on just ask the NCO's they are your records.

[Guest LT]

Future16driver,

ENJPT slots are few and far between, even if you are shit hot you may still not get one. But that is not the end of the world, ENJPT is not the end all be all of UPT and you can still get 16s out of regular UPT. In fact you can get any plane offered out of UPT if you work hard enough. The advice everyone else if giving you is good, DONT call AFPC! IF you really want to know ask the NCO's When my boards came out I asked the NCO's and I found out that I got a Pilot slot days before they were anounced. But does it really matter if you know, you are still going to work as hard as you can to be the best, will the knowledge change your performance in any way? Also, one more tip I wouldn't call myself a future anything driver, you only end up looking gay to those of us who have been through UPT and got what we wanted. Some people get what they want, some don't, calling yourself a future 16 driver isn't going to help you get one. And even if you do go to ENJPT or even land a 38 out of SUPT then you could still be stuck with a BUF. All you need to do is work hard, stay dedicated and everything will go the way you want it too. Good Luck!

LT

[Guest beylund]

Guys, it's killing me, does anyone know the usual cutoff of OM to get into ENJJPT? Does having your PPL actually change your OM? My NCO said it's only a box to check, like a tiebreaker. I don't know how I'm going to make it 'till October to find out. I want A-10's like nobody's business.

[Spartacus]

Ok so this one really pisses me off. I got a pilot slot and am hoping for ENJJPT. But, guess what I found out today.

I had a bad feeling about my PFT score, because I took it right before the board deadline for pilot. Well, my feeling was right! My cadre submited my old PFT score of an 86. My new score was a 91.5.

So, my OM score has the old 86 in it and I flipped when I found out. (So, did the cadre.) I guess my PFT card got lost and they found it in a stack of papers today after looking for a while. I think that my OM was around a 95 if my new PFT score was in it, but with the old PFT score I don't know what it is and my cadre say that they can't tell me the official OM. All they said is that these two scores do change my OM.

Well, they said that they will fix it and to talk to them on Friday. I am very wary of this though because I think they are blowing smoke! I don't think that they will be able to get my OM changed just for this! I sure hope this doesn't preclude me from going to ENJJPT.

My question is: Can my Order of Merit be changed because of this mistake that was NOT my fault?

Here are my scores:

Commanders Ranking: 3rd out of 32

GPA: 3.80

PFT: (UUGGGHHH) 86 or 91.5

FT: SP

PCSM: 99

Can CAVOK or anyone out there tell me if this is competitive for ENJJPT? The OM calculator that I found doesn't work right and I can't get the new numbers to add up for the new PFT and Commanders Ranking.

Sorry for the long post. Any help would be appreciated!

[Guest Dirt Beater]

That looks pretty competitive. I got ENJJPT and my scores were:

UCR: 1 or 2 out of 11

GPA: 3.44

PFT: 433

FT: SP

PCSM: 80

[AFCS_Actuator]

Dude, you OM would change by about half a point. Not a big deal.

[Guest KillYourself]

BT - I know the feeling.

I just cat'ed for strike nav and my cadre screwed up on my GPA. They submitted a 2.8 instead of my 3.4 (I'm an engineer at a tough university in CA). I caught this mistake at my midterm counseling but it was too late as the board had already met. My OM dropped by a significant amount and I don't know if I'll get strike nav now.

The only good thing is that the board for ENJJPT and Strike Nav don't meet until late April/early May so you should be able to get your updated OM in on time.

I guess I'll post my numbers since everybody else has:

UCR: 1/31

GPA: 3.4

PFT: 100

FT: DG

[Spartacus]

I thought the board met for ENJJPT in September. So will I be able to get my OM fixed or is HQ going to give me the bird even though it was not my fault?

Kill,

Sorry about that crap happening to you too! That really sucks!!! Believe me I know!!!

Thanks all for your help and for posting your numbers. Any more help would be appreciated!

[Champ Kind]

What ever happened to just being thrilled that you were one of the 59% (or so) that got a pilot slot and calling it a day?

[Spartacus]

Don't get me wrong I'm extremely excited! It just makes me mad because I wasn't given full credit for what I did. It's like taking a test in school and getting a grade lower because your professor messed up on the grading.

My NCO explained it like this. Your score will "follow you" so you want it as high as you can get it. We are always ranked in the military and this could change my "rank" by 10, 20 or even more positions depending on how competitive the boards were. Do you see what I mean?

[Guest Apollo]

Once you get to UPT it won't mean jack.

[Spartacus]

But it does mean jack to get into ENJJPT so that you have basically an 85% percent chance of getting a fighter, which is what I want. In UPT you have to compete like crazy to get that fighter!

[Champ Kind]

No one's hammering on you, and there is nothing wrong with chasing your dreams. I am just saying that, in getting a slot to begin with (ENJJPT or not), you have scratched the surface of an opportunity that a LOT of people would damn near gives their lives for. What you are saying could kind of be related to some dude who was stranded in a desert for weeks, then when he finally gets a bite to eat, he is annoyed that it isn't a filet mignon or something. Maybe that puts things into perspective for you (at least that's how I see it).

Once you are in pilot training (or on active duty for that matter), I do not see where that OM score as a cadet would ever follow you. It's a clean slate after commissioning. As far as ENJJPT goes, good luck with it, but either way, if everything continues to go on-track, you will be on your way to being an Air Force pilot and serving your country... Isn't that all that really matters?

[Guest elroy]

Ya'll

I got one for you. I was going over commissioning paperwork and it turns out my 53 has my pilot as 82 and nav at 66. Here is the thing, that should read p - 90 and n - 88. I have since got lucky enough to get a strike nave slot but...got lucky.

-elRoy

[Guest PhiPsiViper]

Light Drizzle relax and be grateful you have a pilot slot

[Guest rangerbob5]

Look...if his cadre ****ed his package up, they need to fix it. All that bullshit about "just be happy you got a slot is BS". He is applying to Euro-NATO and he wants to be competitive. This has nothing to do with a UPT slot.

Just be cool about it with your cadre and don't blow your top or piss them off.

[Champ Kind]

I think don't think that getting a pilot slot is "BS" at all. God forbid you have to slug it out with all of those mere mortals get a T-38 out of SUPT at Vance, Columbus, Moody, or Pensacolo.

But, like rangerbob said... I'd POLITEFULLY and TACTFULLY bring it up with my cadre, see what they say, and then take whatever answer they give you and leave it at that.

[Spartacus]

I respect what all of you have said. However, think of it like this. Your package is sent in and you don't get a UPT slot because they messed up your package. So, you have to take a Nav slot. Hey, Nav is great and yes you should be happy with it. But, wouldn't you be a little pissed that you weren't given credit for what you did and therefore didn't get what you had earned?

The same thing goes with this. I am dang glad that I got a slot but what if this mess up is just enough so that I don't get ENJJPT? That will piss me off! What if I would have gotten ENJJPT if they had my stuff right, but because they messed it up I will just miss it? Do you see my point?

[Guest dbuxton]

5 points difference on your PFT isn't going to make even a dent on your pilot board, especially if you have a PCSM of 99 (is that for real? I flew for a decade before getting slotted and had a 96, which I thought was good).

I've only seen it hinted at, but have you already been selected for UPT or is the board still upcoming? If you're still waiting, just remember the board looks at ALL your application, the whole person concept and all that. I highly doubt it will come down to comparing PFT scores over who goes to ENJJPT. If you can get it fixed, wonderful, but it's not worth giving yourself a stroke over.

Here, take a deep breath and repeat the chant of the Jedi after me:

There is no emotion, there is peace.

There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.

There is no passion, there is serenity.

There is no death, there is only the Force.

[ 16. March 2005, 13:32: Message edited by: Dyess Monkey ]

[Champ Kind]

Agree with Dyess Monkey that the difference would be negligible if you updated the PFT score.

Additionally, I disagree with your analogy about the Nav slot. Somoene with a Nav slot that was qualified for a Pilot slot and didn't get one, in my opinion, has a lot more to be pissed about than someone who GOT a Pilot slot but didn't get ENJJPT. Nothing against Navigators/EWOs/WSOs/CSOs (or any other type of Navs I left off!), but at least with a Pilot slot, you know you have the opportunity to fly.

I'm just trying to help you see the bigger picture and keep you from spreading any bad karma around, man. Good luck at UPT when you get there, and good luck on getting ENJJPT.

[Guest rangerbob5]

Look, if someone is dead set on a fighter, then there is a BIG difference between Euro-NATO and SUPT. Fighter selection is 85% v 30%. Also, when all the competitive applicants are so close, then every little bit helps - even 5 points on the PFT.

Everything is done on a standard distribution. So if there are 100 applicants, and the average PFT score is 90/100 with a standard deviation of 4 points, then a difference of 5 points could mean 2-3/10 points for the PFT percentage (10%).

Since the PFT counts 10%, two or three points in the order of merit (out of a hundred) could mean a score of 92/100 becomes a 94/100 or a 95/100. If the Euro-NATO cutoff is in that realm, then his 5 PFT points matter a great deal.

In all honesty, with a 99 PCSM, I think you will get the Euro-NATO slot anyway.