Masters information (MBA/GRE)

[Beaver]

Try your base education office. You have to outprocess there when you PCS so you might as well figure out where it is now.

[M2]

Does anyone know where to find a comprehensive list of schools that offer online Master's programs? Whenever I Google it, the lion's share of returns are for schools like University of Phoenix/DeVry/etc. I'm looking for actual universities that have programs. I know FSU has an online MBA, as do a few others. If anyone knows of a good resource that could make the search a little less painful I would appreciate it.

Errrr....Univ of Phoenix and DeVry ARE actual universities, just because they have online programs doesn't mean they aren't "real." Matter of fact, I am about to start my second Masters degree from American Military University. I know that some of you are saying "why?" as I am retired and no longer "need" a Masters (and I already have one). Well, several reasons. For one, despite the burden it may seem, an advanced degree can be a learning experience! Secondly, the AMU program I am going into ties well into my new contractor job, and it never hurts to give yourself an edge in the business world. Thirdly, my company is offering 100% tuition assistance with only a one-year commitment afterward, it's almost as good of a deal as the USAF is offering!

Bottom line, a grad degree—whether through the USAF or via a company—is a great opportunity that will never hurt you if you take advantage of it. However, passing on it can adversely affect you down the road. I got my first grad degree—a MS in Info Systems—as I thought I might be going into that world after my USAF career. I didn’t enjoy how highly technical the program was, but it was a well-paying career field. However, a different opportunity presented itself after I retired and now I want to maximize my advantage as I follow this path. Maybe some of you young pups haven’t realized this yet; but life doesn’t always go as you thought, and it is always smart to have a backup plan (or two). And the best way to do that is to be prepared, as the more prepared you are, the better you can adapt to those “surprises.” It is a simply matter of survival…

Cheers! M2

[Guest Stodr]

I am getting one in Military Air Power from AMU. They have alot of degrees to choose from. An interesting one would have been Homeland Security but I got 16 transfer credits form ACSC and AWC for the AP major so I took that.

https://www.amu.apus.edu/index.htm

[Guest Cypher220]

I'm going to be on casual at Scott AFB for roughly 9 months (with IFS and ASBC in between) before I start UPT at Vance in Jan 09. Since it looks like I'll have the time I figured this would be a good opportunity for me to get a start on a masters degree. I have a B.S. in Aero Engineering and as of now I'm thinking a masters in some sort of engineering or science is what I'll want eventually, that way I'll have some good options later on if for some reason flying doesn't work out. What I am wondering is while I'm on casual, should I try to take some graduate courses from an accredited school (either online or night/weekend classes from a local university) that would count towards a masters in science or engineering? Or should I try to crank out (well, get a good start on) a masters degree in business or something easier from an online program like AMU or Touro (I am liking this option because of the cost since it looks like TA would pretty much cover most of it)? If I were to get a masters degree from one of those programs first, would I still have the opportunity and the time to pursue a masters in science or engineering later on if that's what I still want?

I'm still looking for more information and trying to see what options are available for now. If anyone can provide me with further incite or advice that would be greatly appreciated. Otherwise I'm assuming the base education office is where I should go when I get to Scott.

Thanks.

[Mitch Weaver]

Cypher-

I'd get as much of a Master's done as possible before starting UPT. Casual time is free time that you'll never have again. If you don't finish before UPT, you should at least be more than halfway done if you make it your #1 priority as a casual Lt. That said, you'll be more likely to finish that program once you're at your first ops squadron.

Air Force Education Center online has a search engine for distance learning and local courses. It'll save you from having to sift through phonebooks of degree programs at your education office.

Also, some schools use the ACE guide to determine if your military training is worth graduate level credit. Probably not a factor for a casual with no formal training but it can save time down the road. Example: PIT and SOS in residence are two courses that offer grad credit that you can use to satisfy an elective or two.

[sputnik]

I think getting a start on your masters while on casual is one of the smartest things you could do so I strongly encourage it.

One thing you should consider, you only get tuition assistance for one master's degree. Or so I've always been told when I've attempted to pursue another. So if you get the 'easier' one now with the intent of a 'better' one later, just realize you might be paying for 100% of the 2nd. Ed office always told me that for me to get tuition assistance on another masters the AF would have to require me to get one. Which wouldn't really be tuition assistance in that case, it would be 100% coverage and an assignment to boot. They did tell me I could get it if I were to pursue the next higher degree, a PhD. I guess I could start a program and drop out with a masters but it seems a little silly and I suspect making the prereq's would be too much a pain in the ass.

For those looking for engineering degrees, I know Georgia Tech used to have distance degrees. I'd recommend finding a school/program that interests you then asking what options they have that'll work for you.

I know many people make fun of ERAU (for example, me) but it's an accredited school and the degrees are real. Is a degree from there going to stand up against Harvard, nowhere except your promotion boards. However it's still an advanced degree you can put on your resume and it sure the hell isn't going to hurt you. Skipping aside M2's example above, you'll search far and wide before you find a job that's willing to pay 75-100% of school for you and even make allowances to your work schedule. The promotion system has forced most officers to take advantage of it, but it kills me how many E's just ignore it. I harp on it whenever I can, sadly to little effect most of the time. A bachelors degree is worth far more to them than an masters to any O. Whatever you do with your own education I certainly hope you encourage your E's to take advantage of the incredible education deals available. Off soapbox.

Anyone have experience with safety masters? Either with ridiculous or anything else?

[Guest Cypher220]

Thanks for the info. After looking at quite a few different programs out there, the Embry-Riddle's Masters in Aeronautical Science is looking like a great option. The Worldwide Online program seems convenient plus it looks as though they have Worldwide locations near many AF bases. I could possibly get credit for attending various military education courses and training later on (SOS, PIT, etc. as other have said). It also looks like this degree could be marketable in the civilian world in aviation or the aerospace industry if I were to go that route after my time in the AF. Additionally, the cost is reasonable ($378/credit hour for AD military members; the AF pays $250/credit hour in TA, right?).

To me this option is looking better than pursuing a Masters in some sort of engineering or science from a good school, mainly because it looks like I'd be paying a lot more out of my own pocket, and it would seem like a waste if I were to not finish it for whatever reason if it becomes too difficult, I don't have the time later on, or if I were to just lose interest. Plus, if I end up making the AF my career, there's a chance I may end up never actually using it.

Other than what's been posted here already, can anyone provide me with other factors to take into consideration? Also, is there any current information out there on exactly how much and what the AF will pay for? I've actually got a few months before I start AD at my casual assignment, so if I were to apply and/or register before then would it still be possible for me to get these costs covered? I know a lot of these answers I could probably find out from the base education office, but any info you guys can provide would be helpful. Thanks again.

[PirateAF]

The air force will pay $250 per semester hour. A normal grad course is 3 semester hours. Hence, USAF tuition assistance will pay $750 a course. I've found most MBA degrees price one business course around $1100-1800. If you have the GI Bill, then you are most likely eligible to use it to pay the rest of the required amount, I believe it's called "top up".

Once you're accepted to a school, they will give you an academic plan for your major - once you get this academic plan to the education office, they can begin your TA. The GI "top up" is paid by you - you are then reimbursed by the VA.

FWIW, I've looked at a ton of schools and looked through a good "Consumer's Guide" to online education (Bears Guide to Correspondence Learning). I don't think much of Tauro, Univ of Phoenix (sp?), ERAU, etc. The guys in my squad who are doing Tauro write a paper every two weeks and after a measly 18 months of that (no exams and no thesis) they get a master's in "Leadership Studies" or some other BS. I'm thinking of University of Southern New Hampshire...14 classes at @$1400 a class. Having gone to undergrad in the area, I know it's a real school with a real reputation. (I sound like an advertisement! :)

I figure that yes I'll spend more time and money, but in the end, I will have still checked the box if I decide to stay in, and if I get out, I have a degree that employers will recognize/respect.

[Spartacus]

So I've read several threads and discussions about getting a Masters Degree. My questions is a little different. I am thinking about starting the ERAU Aeronautical Science degree because it would be quick and easy to get but I also want to get more of a "real world" degree because I am afraid that the ERAU degree might just check the box for Major and that would be all the use that I get out of it. (Am I right or wrong on this?) Anyway, I actually kind of want the ERAU degree but I also have been interested in an MBA for a long time. Would you guys suggest getting one or both? I am in AETC right now so I have the time. Also, one of the reasons why I am not sure about starting the MBA right now is because I would probably have to do it online and I have no idea which schools are good. There are places like Duke, PENN, and Columbia that offer online MBA's but they are very expensive and competitive and I don't know if they would be compatible with AF life and time constraints. On the other hand I'm not really interested in getting one from a no name school. Have any of you gotten an MBA that you had a good experience with that is also recognized as a good MBA school? Thanks

[drewpey]

So I've read several threads and discussions about getting a Masters Degree. My questions is a little different. I am thinking about starting the ERAU Aeronautical Science degree because it would be quick and easy to get but I also want to get more of a "real world" degree because I am afraid that the ERAU degree might just check the box for Major and that would be all the use that I get out of it. (Am I right or wrong on this?) Anyway, I actually kind of want the ERAU degree but I also have been interested in an MBA for a long time. Would you guys suggest getting one or both? I am in AETC right now so I have the time. Also, one of the reasons why I am not sure about starting the MBA right now is because I would probably have to do it online and I have no idea which schools are good. There are places like Duke, PENN, and Columbia that offer online MBA's but they are very expensive and competitive and I don't know if they would be compatible with AF life and time constraints. On the other hand I'm not really interested in getting one from a no name school. Have any of you gotten an MBA that you had a good experience with that is also recognized as a good MBA school? Thanks

From what I've heard, if you are planning on getting out, and not making a career of the military, you might want to put more thought/work into your degree. If you are going to put in your 20, just check the box. If/when you get hired after 20 years of experience, no one is going to bitch about a degree you got 15 years ago, and who it's by. You will be mostly banking on your experience to impress them.

If you wanted to do the whole Aero science thing later, you'd have to weigh in wether you'd be able to retain all that info until you actually used it. IE get the degree now, but not apply it at a job until 10 years from now...I don't know about you, but thats a lot of time for me to forget it.

It all really comes down to your future plans/goals. What are you getting the degree for, and when are you going to use it?

[Hotel]

IMHO, I wouldn't be terribly concerned about the name of the school if you're doing an online program. To me, the importance of the name is the networking opportunities you have if you're physically attending classes at said school.

So, a online MBA from Kelley School of Business out of IU (insert whatever school you're thinking of) would be great and have the name with it, but the real value would be driving to Bloomington or Indy and taking the classes for the networking with the classmates and staff.

[Hercster]

For the bases that have it, Webster is a great program, very convinient. I'm currently working on an MA in management and leadership, mostly for box-checking purposes, but there's some good info I'm getting out of it.

[barney]

How helpful/hurtful is it to be working on an MBA while deployed, as a herk guy anyway? Can I get access to the internet while in the box? Is there even time to get it done? Seeing as I'll be there 1/2 the year anyway it seems doable (sp). I want to start a masters with Touro Univ. but am going to deploy in a few mos. I would just hate to get started then not finish. Has this been asked/answered?

[KennyB]

How helpful/hurtful is it to be working on an MBA while deployed, as a herk guy anyway? Can I get access to the internet while in the box? Is there even time to get it done? Seeing as I'll be there 1/2 the year anyway it seems doable (sp). I want to start a masters with Touro Univ. but am going to deploy in a few mos. I would just hate to get started then not finish. Has this been asked/answered?

Absolutely doable, in fact I recommend taking 2 classes at a time while deployed. I'm just finishing up my MBA with Touro over 2 years and 2 Herk deployments. The internet access can be a little squirrelly. You'll be able to access the school site/research libraries just fine on AF computers; you'll just have to use a thumb drive to download your files onto your laptop to type the papers. Some people will type their papers on the common computers, but I don't recommend it.

Every Touro professor I had was very understanding of the military/deployed situation. I was granted every extension for which I asked with no grade penalty. Even going on some long TDYs I would let them know and the teachers were quick to grant the extension.

Bottom line, it's EXTREMELY SMART/HELPFUL to start your Master's while deployed. You'll understand what I mean when you get there, but you will be bored out of your mind. There's only so much Halo before your eyes start bleeding. If you have any Touro MBA specific questions, PM me... Touro is the BOMB.

[Flare]

M2 (and anyone else)

What are your thoughts on AMU's degrees? Obviously they'll work well for "checking the container" for the Air Force, and I know that they are accredited, but what do you think civilian employees will think about having a degree from there? They're about the only place I've found so far where I don't have to worry about pre-reqs & also the cost above what the AF pays is very minimal, so they're very attractive in that regard.

Also, in this mega-merged thread, C-21 Pilot asked about the Blue Chip award....while I'm not looking to go to school only right now (I'm almost in the CAF, finally!) just curious what my options are later in life. Anyone know any rated dudes that have actually used it?

[M2]

M2 (and anyone else)

What are your thoughts on AMU's degrees? Obviously they'll work well for "checking the container" for the Air Force, and I know that they are accredited, but what do you think civilian employees will think about having a degree from there? They're about the only place I've found so far where I don't have to worry about pre-reqs & also the cost above what the AF pays is very minimal, so they're very attractive in that regard.

Flare

I wouldn't be working towards one of their degrees if I didn't have absolute confidence that it is recognized and worth the trouble. As I stated, I already have a masters and only started a second with AMU as the program interested me and is applicable to the job I now do as a contractor. Several of the people I work with (also contractors) have undergrad degrees from AMU and/or are working on a grad degree from them. And they must be recognized as I received an invitation to join an international honor society based on my "academic excellence."

Don't misconstrue the fact that it is an on-line program with it being easy, it is not. There is a lot of reading to do and the workload is considerable. Sure, it is not the same as going fulltime and in-residence, but no distance education is going to match that; but for an online program it is widely recognized within the DoD as it is geared towards military personnel. As a matter of fact, it was started by a former Marine instructor out of Quantico in 1991.

AMU is also academically unusual in that it is both regionally and nationally accredited. Regional accreditation is granted by Higher Learning Commission of the North Central Association; amnd their national accreditation is through Accrediting Commission, Distance Education and Training Council (DETC).

Plus, if you have ever priced classes at the University of Pheonix, AMU becomes even more attractive!

So, to sum it all up, obviously I have no qualms about pursing a degree from AMU!

Hope that helps!

Cheers! M2

[Guest acv105]

Maybe it depends strongly on the career path you want after the military but every company I have spoken to said not to waste your money with an online MBA. It may work to check a box for the military but employers look right over it. So much of your MBA is networking that taking it online just doesn't make any sense to me.

I have spoken to several of my friends from college and asked how their companies would look upon a distance/online degree and was told that it really depends on the university and the program that is being offered. One of my friends (finance major/worked for large international bank) was tasked by his boss to sort through the resumes for MBA's only and that if he never heard of the school or it wasn't a major university to circular file them.

All of my classes were the same as, and taught by the same UF professors that teach the in-residence program. My degree is no different than that of someone who lived on campus. So, If you think you might actually use the degree outside the AF it might be worth while. Also, I had one Navy and one Army officer in my class, the Army officer had to deploy long term and missed the last semester and graduation but the school worked with him to allow him to complete his degree.

[WeMeantWell]

I know it was asked on page 4 of this thread but was not answered, did anyone have to take the GRE? Any suggestions for taking it as I have seen a lot of test prep stuff out there. Any general comments as to it’s format and so on? Finally, can you take it more than once?

Thanks

Just to answer this one, GRE is tough. If you have any technical background, the math section will not be hard, but the essay and verbal portion are tough. If you were english lit or something it might be the opposite for you.

To prepare, I did 2 things, one I bought one of the GRE prep courses, with computer based tests included. The test is tough to finish in the time they alot, so the practice tests are well worth it, to get your pacing down and to understand the types of questions on them. The second thing is to buy a recent book of "hot" words for the GRE, a couple hundred of the most popular words on the test. I created flash cards and went through them over and over and over. You are guranteed to at least see a few of them on the test and will help you figure out what the other words are. There are also a few key concepts to understand in the GRE prep course that you will not have time to figure out when you take the test, well worth the $.

Finally: the test itself is wierd, what the screen doesn't show you, is that you are being graded continously and future questions are based on previous correct/incorrect answers. If you answer a question right, your grade goes up and you get a harder question, the more you miss in a row, the further down your score goes, that you can not get back. I also think the earlier questions are weighted more, so spend extra time answering the first questions right. Finally a wrong answer is better than a blank answer, so if your time is coming up, answer all the rest before you can not.

I was out of school 10 years and spent 3 weeks getting ready, study the words every day and take a practice test once a week and I did alright.

good luck!

[TacAirCoug]

Can somebody turn off the motor driving that pendulum?

Selection boards to consider advanced degrees

[Chuck17]

Does anyone know if AMU gives you credit for SOS in res?

YES. https://www.apus.edu/TransferCredit/accepte...te/military.htm

[sky_king]

OK, so bottom line. What would you guys say is the easiest masters to get? I just need one to check the box. I could really care less if it's from Yale, ERAU, or the Derek Zoolander Center For Children Who Can't Read Good And Wanna Learn To Do Other Stuff Good Too.

[M2]

Most of my first masters was in the classroom, for my second one it is all online. Honestly, I preferred the latter. As such, ERAU or AMU would be my choices. The University of Phoenix is another option, but it is expensive...

Cheers! M2

[Champ Kind]

I think I did it earlier in this thread, but I'll send out another plug for Troy again.

9 week terms. In that term, you'll write about 3 papers or so, plus a final. You have to take at least one proctored "exam" per term, usually the final, and it's usually in the form of essay questions (no surprises - they generally come from discussion topics from the term). Instructors I've had so far have all been PhDs, and they are all very willing to teach, interact, and most importantly, work around your hectic schedule. I spend probably a collective 3 hours a week or so doing stuff for class, between the reading, posting the usually-weekly response on the discussion board, and working on papers. I don't think that's too bad of a workload.

The downside is that I have to fork out about 300 bones per class, after TA, with them. It's honestly that big a deal. I put aside $75 per payday, and that takes care of tuition and books. On the other hand, it's an MS degree from a known school that you can actually walk into (ie, not just a PO box somewhere). No disrespect to TUI/AMU/whatever, but I wanted it to be user-friendly, check-the-box, and applicable OUTSIDE of my PRF. I think Troy fit the bill in all of those categories. The other programs I looked at and participated in (AMU) did not.

If you are just looking to check a box, though (not what I would recommend), AMU and TUI seem to be working for a lot of people.

You guys are too quick...

That's what she said!

Edited March 22, 2009 by Champ Kind

[M2]

Well, in response to Champ's post, I will throw in my 2¢ for AMU. All online, and both 8- and 16-week course (I've tried to take more of the former, as although they are a bit tougher, getting the credit in half the time is nice). Classes are a mix of exams, papers and online exams; the course I am in is nothing but discussion groups so you write a 1-2 page submission then a critic of someone else's work and either a defense of your own work or other comments in another posting. No exams, no paper, just the discussion group work for this class.

The downside is that every class I have taken has a heavy reading load. I mean several hundred pages a week, up to 400-500 during some weeks. And since I am a meticulous note-taker, I go through the material slowly, so it means a lot of time in the evening reading. But usually the family is watching TV, and I am close by and just put on some headphones to drown out the noise and listen to some Yahoo Music station (Chill Out works for me, as does Smooth Jazz).

But since I am being company-sponsored for this second masters, I am not sure it USAF TA covers it. Classes are $275/hr, and if I recall the cap is $250/hr; so much like Troy it will cost you more, but this time a mere $75 extra per class. Plus it is all online, and since it is a military-based school the professors understand that things happen and they accommodate those situations easily. I had to go TDY during the final week of a course, so I emailed the professor and he game me a month extension to get a paper in. I got it done in less than a week, as I wanted it finished before the next semester started; but those kind of extensions are common.

And if you wonder if the degrees are marketable, just consider that my company was willing to pay for a second masters for me. Of course, I incur a one-year "ADSC" for each, and it is a reimbursement after the course is finished and not the tuition paid up front like TA, and I still have to buy my own books; but figuring it is almost an additional ten grand they will be paying me to go to school, it must be worth it to them!

Cheers! M2

[noodles]

Here one that worked for me: Master in Social Science from Syracuse University https://www.maxwell.syr.edu/exed/mssc/

Good: 30 credits, no GRE required, school that you can find on a map, interesting coursework, no deadlines, no proctored tests...just "read a book, write a paper" format, and a total of four weeks of on-campus class work (Syracuse in the summer...lots of KFFO C-21 folks can vouch for the city), plenty of military have completed this since the 1970s.

Bad: Cost ($1069 per credit hour), residency requirement (you can get PTDY if your CC is flexible...otherwise you burn 4 weeks of leave while completing the program). TA is not going to cover this at all...but GIB plus TA can take a decent chunk out of the cost.

This is ideal for all those folks who wanted to get an MA in history or political science but were unable to find a distance learning program. By far the most military friendly program (except for the cost) that I have seen. Your coursework is not "done" until you complete the residency...so if it takes you 1-2 years before you can complete the requirement...so be it.

The on-campus residency gives you a break from life on the road...gets you back in a college town for two weeks at a time (2-2 wk residencies needed to complete the degree) and gives you a chance to interact with the faculty and students (lots of Navy 02s-03s in this...guess they have a better TA benefit). If you can get past the tuition cost it is a worthy program.

They also have a MBA that runs 54 credits and requires much more time on campus. I've met one Army aviator that did that. Great if you have deep pockets, a whole lot of leave and an accommodating schedule