Masters information (MBA/GRE)

[GoAround]

From what I've read and been told, the board doesn't consider the GRE, however, some of the schools "require" a GRE/GMAT. hence, you can read into it that if you don't meet the basic requirements of said school, you won't get selected. Although I have never heard of it, I'm sure you could be selected, then go and take the GRE/GMAT.

When I applied for IDE (AF Form 3849) a few years ago, I used my 9 year old GMAT scores. I was selected for a program that "required" the GMAT, but I found out when I showed up that a lot guys never took the test and still got into this particular small school IDE program...some didn't even have the min gpa that was advertised as a prereq.

My advice: If you want to open your options for IDE programs, just take the test without worrying about the prep work/programs or practice tests. Merely having the score on your record shows your determination.

[schokie]

My advice: If you want to open your options for IDE programs, just take the test without worrying about the prep work/programs or practice tests. Merely having the score on your record shows your determination.

I have absolutely zero desire for an MBA at any point in my life. I would like to be competitive for a technical IDE such as AFIT. I'll admit my ignorance and lack of research on this topic. Would it be more worth while to take the GRE than the GMAT? Doesn't the education office refund part of the cost of the test?

ETA: What else can be done to make yourself competitive for non-ACSC IDE? I imagine having great OPRs, lots of Strats, and high undergrad GPA is the key. Since I don't have any of those am I just SOL?

Edited December 27, 2010 by schokie

[KennyB]

Through my IDE research, I concluded that ultimately, the selection process is all but entirely out of my control.

I don't doubt that... it really doesn't matter where you go, nor can you control it. But fortune favors the prepared, so if having a GRE score on file may help me avoid AL for a year, then I think it might be worth it.

So back to my original question... any love on the GRE prep material?

**Concur on the DLAB. It's free, you can't study for it, and it'll fill another square on your Surf. Who knows, maybe you'll end up being a linguistic genius.

Edited December 27, 2010 by kenblankenship

[Pancake]

ETA: What else can be done to make yourself competitive for non-ACSC IDE? I imagine having great OPRs, lots of Strats, and high undergrad GPA is the key. Since I don't have any of those am I just SOL?

The magic formula? Who knows?

ACSC (correspondence) and master's "complete" are requisite for non-selects. My anecdotal observation is that stratification is the one thing that really matters.

GRE, GMAT, DLAB, SOS DG, and GPA are nice footnotes, but ultimately, it's my opinion that you will do in-residence IDE where (if) your wing commander thinks you should.

[jazzdude]

Definitely get a GRE test prep book- it helped me out quite a bit- if nothing else, knowing the types of questions asked, and testing strategy for the types of questions. If you have the time, both test books I used had a vocabulary bank with common words that pop up on the GRE. The GRE is weird since you have to answer questions sequentially, ie no skipping hard questions and coming back to them later, and that it selects the difficulty of your next question based on how you are doing on the test. (I used Barron's and Princeton Review prep books, I think)

At the very least, the ETS website has some practice questions and I think a practice test, look those over, and read about what to expect on the test.

The GRE CBT test is the standard- don't expect to take the paper unless you are out in the middle of nowhere.

Also, the ETS site said that Mil ID is good for a form of ID, but the test center I went to (in Chucktown) wouldn't accept Mil ID since it no longer has your signature on it.

But outside of that, it basically is the SAT.

Edited January 1, 2011 by jazzdude

[Insubordinate & Churlish]

I used the Princeton Review GRE prep book. (I did not use any of the others, so I cannot make any comparisons.) I thought the book was worthwhile. They teach you how to play ETS' game.

- The tips given for the math section are very helpful. They'll help you dredge up some of those math skills that have atrophied since high school.

- They give you a cookie-cutter format for writing the essays (since the essays are graded from a rubric). I just followed the format to the t for my essays, and I, an average writer, scored well.

- The vocab words given in the Princeton book were on the test. I made a flashcard out of each word and went through the whole stack a few times. Then, I took out all the cards that I know the definition to, leaving just the cards you have problems with. You can learn 300 definitions pretty quickly this way.

-PD

[WeMeantWell]

- The vocab words given in the Princeton book were on the test. I made a flashcard out of each word and went through the whole stack a few times. Then, I took out all the cards that I know the definition to, leaving just the cards you have problems with. You can learn 300 definitions pretty quickly this way.

Flash cards are the only way for the vocab, you will have a stack of about 500 words to go through, but will definetly help your score (I preped in 2 weeks), and then you flush it just as fast.

If anything, practice the math test at least a few times, if only to get the timing down... Because of the question selection (next question based on how well you are doing), you have to focus on the first questions. You also have to make sure you answer all the questions, if only to "guess" an answer... the worse questions to miss are the first one, the best ones to miss are the last ones, but do not leave any blank, that is worse.

For those that did get their Masters from EBAU in Aeronautical Science, which specialization did you pick from?(difficulty, time consuming, how were they , etc) I'm doing Gold Bar Program before UPT for a year so might as well knock Masters out right?

Doesn't matter, something that interests you. A lot of the satellites offices only offer a few specializations, typically safety is avaiable I think... I tried to work a human factors specilization, but Chuck-Town did not have teachers to teach enough of those classes, a big problem if you PCS before finishing. Choose a "safe" route...

[osulax05]

I'm looking to start a masters sometime soon. Is Trident (or whatever it is called now) still the path of least resistance? Any recommendations for other degree mills?

[brabus]

Trident is a complete joke and I can't imagine there's any easier way to a masters. And it's free to you with TA. I really don't think there's any better check-the-container option.

[flyguy2181]

I'm looking to start a masters sometime soon. Is Trident (or whatever it is called now) still the path of least resistance? Any recommendations for other degree mills?

A bunch of people I know get it from the University of Oklahoma. Its all pretty simple. think it cost $25 over TA per course. Couple of papers and such for each course. Requires some time but nothing too difficult and with that work, you will get a masters from a place that people have heard of...... though it's in administrative leadership so i'm not sure how far that will get you outside the AF.

[JS]

A lot of our guys are getting their MBA from Oklahoma - might be worth a tad more on the outside, but will probably require a little more work.

[Homestar]

A bunch of people I know get it from the University of Oklahoma. Its all pretty simple. think it cost $25 over TA per course. Couple of papers and such for each course. Requires some time but nothing too difficult and with that work, you will get a masters from a place that people have heard of...... though it's in administrative leadership so i'm not sure how far that will get you outside the AF.

OU also offers masters degrees in international relations and human relations.

https://www.goou.ou.edu/degree_programs/degrees_locations.html

I completed the M.A in International Relations. Took me three years (deployment versus class schedule conflicts) but I have a diploma from OU up on my wall, and not a diploma factory.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Homestar

[brabus]

I've seen the OU course work via friends and TUI is definitely easier/less work. Not that OU is hard by any means, but it still is not the "ultimate container checker." OU seems to be a great way to go if you want something not too difficult that carries more "weight" than diploma-mill TUI. You just have to decide if you really give a shit about something a little better or are 100% just checking the container...I know I'm in the latter portion.

[M2]

I completed the M.A in International Relations. Took me three years (deployment versus class schedule conflicts) but I have a diploma from OU up on my wall, and not a diploma factory.

Don't take this personally, but I don't think a MA in Int'l Relations from OU is going to "wow" anyone more than a degree in a similar field of study from a "diploma factory." Unless you have one in engineering from an Ivy League school, there really isn't that much of a distinction. I've got one from a "brick and mortar" school and another from a virtual one, and in my experience both have garnered the same response from my resume. Obviously there are true "diploma factories" (such as Rushmore University in the Cayman Islands. The state of Oregon has a good list here, scroll down a bit on that page); but too often people think that all online programs are "diploma factories" which couldn't be farther from the truth. If anything, my second grad degree probably has been more beneficial in my post-military career than the first one!

[SPiF]

I know several folks (myself included) who have done Oklahoma State University's distance ed program. For military (even out of state), they lower their tuition to the TA cap. It does require more work than places like Park, TUI, and ERAU, but it's a worthwhile degree. Mainly professionals from all over with a good chunk of military mixed in.

I'm about to graduate, and very happy with the program. Worked with me during deployments, esp. when I ended up in places where I couldn't download lectures. Also something that I'll use when I pull chocks and get the f**k out of the AF.

[Gravedigger]

but too often people think that all online programs are "diploma factories" which couldn't be farther from the truth.

Absolutely agree. I initially signed up for my MS in Space Studies from AMU thinking it was going to be a joke, and I could easily check the box. In reality, I researched and wrote more 10 - 20 page papers for my masters than I ever did for my undergrad. I also feel like I have learned more. Writing a 50 page thesis is also a bitch.

There are definitely programs out there that require very little effort, including several at AMU. However, be careful what you're getting into if you think all online programs are a joke.

[Champ Kind]

There are definitely programs out there that require very little effort, including several at AMU. However, be careful what you're getting into if you think all online programs are a joke.

All the more reason, in my opinion, to at least get one from an institution that actually has a campus that you can step foot onto (and not a PO Box in West Virginia or wherever) and actually has some name recognition outside of the military, even if it isn't the "Ivy League" standard M2 alluded to.

[nsplayr]

And so it begins... hearing from 2LTs now about the 'need' to get a masters to be competitive for the captains boards (top 95% of 1Lts). This is how starching your ABUs will start.

I started mine early so when I'm two years out from my commitment I can be done taking TA and tell the AF to go F themselves two years later if I want to. Obviously not the same numbers game for pilots but starting that early sometimes has a point. The captain's board excuse is ridiculous.

[dream big]

Is it possible for a pilot to take two years off, after their 10 year ADSC, and go to an actual school to get a masters (with tuition assistance or on their own dime) and then return to active duty? A lot of the information here refers to online degrees while on active duty; if one were to actually go to an actual campus and get a masters degree, would this significant impact their AF career once they return to active duty?

[Swizzle]

Is it possible for a pilot to take two years off, after their 10 year ADSC, and go to an actual school to get a masters (with tuition assistance or on their own dime) and then return to active duty? A lot of the information here refers to online degrees while on active duty; if one were to actually go to an actual campus and get a masters degree, would this significant impact their AF career once they return to active duty?

"Blue chip" from AFIT given to you from a commissioning source...I don't know of many Pilots/Navs/ABM'ers who received a blue chip.

[Disco_Nav963]

It depends. I would presume that if you outright separated and came back in on the rated recall program you'd be subject to whatever limitations other such individuals are under (four year contracts? not sure -- I'm not done /w my initial service commitment, so getting out has never crossed my mind). Short of separating there is a program called Air Force Educational Leave of Absence (AFELA). Details in the same AFI that covers Tuition Assistance (name escapes me). Up to two years off, incurring a new ADSC on a 2 to 1 ratio measured in months, and you get base pay but no BAS or BAH. You still count against unit manning and you still get an OPR every year, but since you can't mention educational attainment on OPRs they will literally be blank OPRs. The program is essentially aimed at the enlisted side of the house. I also don't think you can use TA to pay for courses taken during the AFELA.

Is it possible for a pilot to take two years off, after their 10 year ADSC, and go to an actual school to get a masters (with tuition assistance or on their own dime) and then return to active duty? A lot of the information here refers to online degrees while on active duty; if one were to actually go to an actual campus and get a masters degree, would this significant impact their AF career once they return to active duty?

[GoAround]

Is it possible for a pilot to take two years off, after their 10 year ADSC, and go to an actual school to get a masters (with tuition assistance or on their own dime) and then return to active duty? A lot of the information here refers to online degrees while on active duty; if one were to actually go to an actual campus and get a masters degree, would this significant impact their AF career once they return to active duty?

Might not be exactly what you're looking into, but you may want to consider the Olmsted Scholar Program. I know of 2 guys who completed it...one from my UPT class (KC-10) and another from ROTC (F-15/22).

[Champ Kind]

I'll throw out another recommendation for Troy University. I did their MS in Int'l Relations and I found it to be a legit program. You will pay about $350 out of pocket after TA per class. It is a no shit school with an actual campus with a good reputation in the Southeast. It is also accredited.

All of the professors were PhDs and while they were military friendly, they did not cater to the military. There were deadlines for assignments and we were expected to meet them unless there were extreme circumstances. TDY did not generally fall into that category unless you were going somewhere that you knew didnt have Internet connectivity and you told your professor in advance to make other arrangements.

The only knock I have for the program is their admin. I was OCONUS so it was difficult to get ahold of the back office folks when I needed to talk to admissions/IT/registrar/advisor, etc. They don't post phone numbers on their website and it was generally like pulling teeth to get them to respond to an email. This was NOT the case for the professors though. I always received timely responses and feedback from them.

I thought Troy was a good compromise between some of the diploma mills out there and some of the pricier programs out there.

[ThreeHoler]

The ACSC online masters program is exceptionally easy. But it is not fast.

[ThreeHoler]

https://www.au.af.mil/au/dlmasters.asp

It is similar to TUI courses...threaded discussions, usually two papers per class. 11 classes to graduate. If you are a Maj or Maj(S) it also gives ACSC credit. Can start the degree as a Capt and finish it as a Maj to complete both PME and Master's.

It isn't very hard...it can be done by dedicating a few hours a week.

Plus, no TA is required.

Certain WIC grads can take the short course of only core classes.