HoHum Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 If you work for someone who is factoring AAD into things like OPR, strats, etc, you need to consider if you will be at a disadvantage by waiting until 6 years in (2 years after Capt pin-on) to start your AAD. The Master's arms race has already started among LTs - some are worried about getting RIF'd. Correspondingly, some places are starting to use it for rack & stacks for SOS in-res, etc.
Karl Hungus Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 The Master's arms race has already started among LTs - some are worried about getting RIF'd. Correspondingly, some places are starting to use it for rack & stacks for SOS in-res, etc. This has been happening for quite a while. It will be interesting to see what happens after DoD gets rid of TA. How many people are going to burn their GI Bill or their own money on a bullshit worthless masters degree? Sadly, I'm guessing a lot. I'll be laughing, that's for sure.
daynightindicator Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 This has been happening for quite a while. It will be interesting to see what happens after DoD gets rid of TA. How many people are going to burn their GI Bill or their own money on a bullshit worthless masters degree? Sadly, I'm guessing a lot. I'll be laughing, that's for sure. Personally, and I think I stated this earlier in the thread, I think the Air Force is slowly moving towards a mandatory AU Masters that will somehow complement SOS. Rumor is the new correspondence SOS will have "threaded discussions" and essay requirements much like the AU Masters. I think we will eventually see a situation where every Captain in the Air Force will be expected to complete the AU Masters. I also don't have much of a problem with this if the timing is done properly. It will be cheaper and more standardized, and allow the AF to teach exactly what they want to their future leaders. It will help eliminate the dumping of gov't money (TA) into for-profit degree mills and give officers a clear picture of exactly what they need to do for their progression and hopefully put the subjective emphasis back on job performance. If everyone has to complete the same AF program, then other discriminators will be needed (although I'm sure there will be a DG equivalent type thing). Maybe we can actually promote Capt Smith because of the combat leadership he displayed on his deployments rather than the X-Mas party he planned or the degree from Payme U.
ThreeHoler Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 although I'm sure there will be a DG equivalent type thing Graduating with a GPA>=3.95 gives a degree "with honors." I still argue that people get promoted based on what they do in their primary job. Maybe not everyone, but I do know many people who were.
daynightindicator Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Graduating with a GPA>=3.95 gives a degree "with honors." I still argue that people get promoted based on what they do in their primary job. Maybe not everyone, but I do know many people who were. I wouldn't argue against you there, especially for the Majors boards. In our community, the VAST majority get promoted and those that don't usually have a reason that stands up to scrutiny (UIF, etc). My bigger concern is for higher level promotions and commander selections, which is where I've seen the most "how the hell did that guy end up there?" situations, and more often than not the answer is some combination of exec tours, DG awards, in-res school attendance, and other things that are not related directly to job performance and combat leadership ability.
Goblin Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Does anyone who recently attended ERAU Worldwide for their Masters have any suggestions for anything to help out tuition/books on top of TA? I've heard of scholarships and whatnot floating around, just wanted to see if anyone has any recommendations. I can't apply the GI Bill for a few years, so the top-off option is out.
Stitch Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Does anyone who recently attended ERAU Worldwide for their Masters have any suggestions for anything to help out tuition/books on top of TA? I've heard of scholarships and whatnot floating around, just wanted to see if anyone has any recommendations. I can't apply the GI Bill for a few years, so the top-off option is out. Student Success Initiative; another round was just released additionally ERAU Excellence Awards and as aways, YMMV check with your ERAU advisor for details.
Napoleon_Tanerite Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 Well no shit! DOD says that Half of TA money goes to for-profit schools. This article makes it sound like some sort of scandal that guys are going through joke schools to get a joke masters to check the joke box for promotion. Am I wasting TA at a for profit school? You bet your ass! My "masters" is and has been a colossal waste of taxpayer dollars, but until leadership backs off this ridiculous unwritten rule that you MUST have a masters, I will continue to waste $750 of taxpayer money on each and every class, and I know thousands of bros who will do the same thing. This article makes it sound like it's some sort of scandal that guys are going through online "schools" with limited value. It's not a scandal, it's a reality. It is impossible to pursue a degree at a brick-and-mortar school with the possibility of a short notice deployment or some other tasking taking you out of that class, so flexible options must be sought. Looks like more AF times BS.
Cornholio5 Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 Well, I am biting the bullet and starting my ERAU Master's here in a few weeks---1.5 years from my Major's board so I am effectively screwed but oh well. I figure I should sap all the money I can out of good 'ol Big Blue and get a decent job in the civilian world where I will not have to constantly worry about my CC riding my ass because I don't play the game, why i don't have O-6 on my radar screen, why i don't have my Master's done, don't volunteer enough, etc., etc., etc all while flying my ass off because flying is what I love to do. Here is what I don't get. With each new applicant for these worthless Master's degrees, the credibility of actually having a Master's Degree is going down. If this cycle continues, which it will because all of us that don't like the system are not willing to put up with the bullshit to actually get to the point where we can change it, 2Lt's are going to be informally required to get their Master's before they become a 1Lt, Captains are going to have to get a Doctorate so that they can be promoted to Major. Where does this end? I have no clue, but hey, for this guy, I am going to pay the fee, and get a B and "check the box.".
ThreeHoler Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 Why not do the ACSC OLMP Leadership Concentration and get free credit toward three ACSC tests if you are selected for promotion? You can enroll now, be done with the degree by the end of Oct '13. https://www.au.af.mil/au/dlmasters.asp Plus, you don't have to pay anything out of your pocket like ERAU will require. 1
Splash95 Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Just finished correspondence SOS, so I figure it's time to get on the ball with this Master's shizz. I haven't been in long enough to do the ACSC OLMP (<5 years TAFCS) and know there's no chance of going to a brick-and-mortar school (AFSOC flyer). The subjects that most appeal to me right now are probably Math Education and Psychology, but I'm open to any other program that's interesting and not prohibitively time-intensive. Anyone who's recently finished or still working on a Master's have some input? Thanks, RM
ThreeHoler Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Hell, with the free 15 credits from Brandman...I'd recommend just signing up with them to complete whatever minimum requirements get you the credits so you can update to a Bac+ with no work. Then I would worry about doing some sort of degree. I think UVA offers an online education degree that is supposed to be pretty good.
Karl Hungus Posted March 24, 2012 Posted March 24, 2012 Has anyone taken classes at Brandman or have any experience/knowledge regarding them? Who cares if it's legit? The Air Force sure doesn't. Anyone ever see the movie Accepted? I'm thinking about creating my own bullshit, online only, for-profit institution out of my living room. You get 12 credits for receiving a commission, 12 credits for graduating UPT, and 9 credits for graduating your FTU. Your final class will be "Issues in AF Leadership" which will require you to participate in the discussion boards of Baseops. You send your $750 of TA to my PO Box, bam, sham masters degree box checked. 3
Guest Mac33 Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 Does anyone have a Masters Certificate in addition to a Masters Degree? Would the Air Force even display this to a promotion board?
spaw2001 Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 Yup, that's confirmed. I called about the same question less than a year ago, and certificates are not recognized on your surf or DQHB as of now. He said there was some talk about them eventually getting recognized, but not yet.
Jaded Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 Air Force Policy for Advanced Education Production of Human Capital or Cheap Signals? Maj Tobias Switzer, USAF Air and Space Power Journal - Winter 2011 https://www.airpower...._07_switzer.pdf This guys says it better than I ever could. I hope our senior leaders take note. In the broadest possible terms, our off-duty AAD programs neither increase human capital in a way relevant to the Air Force nor offer efficient signals of high human capital. Instead they represent extremely efficient signals of officer commitment and institutional loyalty. On the face of things, this system is not necessarily so terrible. Highly committed officers have a way to signal their desires to senior officers and promotion boards by completing an off-duty AAD and nonresident PME courses. Through the TA program, the Air Force finances a generous amount of the cost of AADs, so the monetary burden does not fall on the officer. However the question is not “Is our system good or bad?” but “What is the opportunity cost?” If another education policy allows us to increase human capital as well as signal both high levels of human capital and commitment, then we should explore it. Lots of gems like that in there. Also talks about PME.
billy pilgrim Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 Solid article. You would think that making it through UPT and all the follow on training would show a "commitment" as well as prove that you're at least fairly competent. I like the point how a masters in Quantum Mechanics from MIT is no different from an aviation management degree from Embry Riddle. If the promotion rates of the pilots downrange, both on the CAF and MAF side are not higher than those on the support side (which I believe currently to be the case) it means one of two things. Either we are not promoting those actually directly accomplishing the misison, or we are not selecting the best and brightest officers for these positions. This is of course a generalization but in my opinion either case is an absolute foul.
Karl Hungus Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 Unfortunately, nothing will change. Even when DoD forces the services to drastically cut TA, the mouthbreathing masses will simply pay more out of pocket for the right to be promoted. And the for-profit schools will be laughing their way to the bank. We all know this is fraud, waste, and abuse, yet very few have the balls to tell AD to go fuck themselves.
Skitzo Posted May 6, 2012 Posted May 6, 2012 Or maybe for once and all the Air Force will pull their heads out of their asses and draw a line like the Navy does. Line vs Restricted line. Computer geeks need Masters Degrees, so do engineers, meterologists yup. Pilots/Operators etc do not. Quit comparing the folks that need degrees for mission success to those that don't. And if there is a pilot/operator out there that goes ahead and gets a meaningless masters we shank him/her. 2
slackline Posted May 6, 2012 Posted May 6, 2012 I just had "feedback" with my CC. I just got selected for O-4 and was lucky enough to be picked up for a school slot. No Master's yet, and I was under the impression that now I didn't have to worry about it because I would get one now on the AF's dime. He told me over and over again that I now had to go ahead and get my Master's or my career was as good as done. I told him that for me it has always been family and mission, and that if I were going to get a Master's it would be because the AF gave me one. He said that was nice, but that I still needed to get a Master's. I basically told him "No thanks." Did I just damage the rest of my career because I told my CC I wasn't going to get a Master's after getting a school slot? I even asked him if he really believed in these cookie cutter degrees, or was just spouting the party line because he was an O-6-type. He said he believes that it was truly important. I really like the guy, but this whole conversation made me question him. I realize telling him that I took my future out of my own hands, but I've always played it straight without playing the game before, and it has served me well. Heck, I somehow managed a school slot. Any of you older types care to weigh in?
GoAround Posted May 6, 2012 Posted May 6, 2012 Frankly, I'm surprised you got a school slot...good on ya. If you think he's a good guy/leader and you have respect for him, do you think he's saying "get your Masters" b/c he wants people like you to be promoted up the chain? He prob knows that w/o a Masters, you're limiting your career and future potential leadership at the Gp/Wg lvl. On the flip side, it would have been great for him to say, "Don't worry about your Masters...you'll get it from IDE. When you become a Sq/CC I want you to push/promote people based on their leadership and not a Touro/Embry Ridiculous degree."
pcola Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) “Chinese and USAF people pay more attention to having a diploma than they do to having a real education,” says Mr Xiong. “A diploma is worth actual money, whereas an education is not.” A quote from the article. My correction in bold. Edited July 17, 2012 by pcola
slc Posted July 19, 2012 Posted July 19, 2012 Anyone know how many Master's credits can be obtained by doing SOS in res?
GoAround Posted July 19, 2012 Posted July 19, 2012 Anyone know how many Master's credits can be obtained by doing SOS in res? SOS in-res COMBINED WITH corresp is deemed so useful, that most colleges will just hand you a Masters. However, to answer your question about just going in-res...I think you only get like 15-18 credits from most schools.
LockheedFix Posted July 19, 2012 Posted July 19, 2012 Anyone know how many Master's credits can be obtained by doing SOS in res? It depends on the school and degree program. I only got 3 for SOS from AMU.
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