Masters information (MBA/GRE)

[tac airlifter]

Nothing for UPT or any flying related courses (unless you're an ABM). SOS will get you 3 credits (one elective class) at AMU.

Has something changed? When I finished TUI in 2011 they used ACE to determine what military schooling equated to in the academic world; at the time I had been an IP in 2 aircraft that were unfortunately not evaluated by ACE, so no dice for me, but IIRC IP in every fighter & most heavies granted a few hours. That plus SOS IN RES should knock out at least one course.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

Has something changed? When I finished TUI in 2011 they used ACE to determine what military schooling equated to in the academic world; at the time I had been an IP in 2 aircraft that were unfortunately not evaluated by ACE, so no dice for me, but IIRC IP in every fighter & most heavies granted a few hours. That plus SOS IN RES should knock out at least one course.

I'm just speaking for AMU, I have no experience with other "schools". I was an IP in the E-8 and it got me nothing. You're right that SOS via correspondence gets you nothing either, has to be in-res.

[rbigred300]

Safe to say that ERAU is the only one that'll give you creds for UPT?

I am enrolled in ERAU right now with one course under my belt. I got no credit for UPT, and I am not aware of that option. You get 3 credits for SOS in-res (counts towards 1 of the 4 classes you need to take for an Aerospace emphasis for Aeronautical Sciences. I also got 9 credits for C-17 initial qualification (which all count towards the 9 elective credits you need for the degree. So, you wind up only needing to take 1 class to get the BAC+.

[Guest one]

For an MBA, TUI gives you credit for SOS in-res (counts for Business Ethics) that is it.

SOS in-res counts for HR management or leadership management.

https://www.apus.edu/TransferCredit/accepted/graduate/internal-policies/usaf-sos-res.htm

[db84]

Looking for a place where I can get my BAC+ the quickest.

Try brandman university, they'll give you 15 credits towards a MA in Organizational Leadership. https://www.brandman.edu/catalog/current.pdf

Page 92 has the details.

[Bucknut21]

With places like TUI being more closely monitored, where would you suggest a new FAIP trying to check the box should go? I know I can get 8 credits from ERAU for PIT.

[Guest one]

That is not Trident University (TUI). That is for AMU or APU.

Seriously, does anyone around here read anymore?

Let me also say this about TUI. It's not that difficult, and you might actually LEARN SOMETHING!

AAD and promotion insanity aside, if you're going to get the degree don't make it a COMPLETE waste of your time.

Shit I know that is horrible to think, but seriously fellas for $1000 a class, 3 hours every other weekend to write a 5 page paper is not the end of the world.

Current A-10 IP with SOS in residence. How many hours can I expect to get credit for at AMU or TUI?

Looking for a place where I can get my BAC+ the quickest.

Yeah, you answered the question about TUI. I answered the question about APUS/AMU. I was not disputing your info, just adding to it.

Edited January 22, 2013 by one

[Champ Kind]

Current A-10 IP with SOS in residence. How many hours can I expect to get credit for at AMU or TUI?

Looking for a place where I can get my BAC+ the quickest.

Change of heart?

[Vprdrvr69]

I am enrolled in ERAU right now with one course under my belt. I got no credit for UPT, and I am not aware of that option. You get 3 credits for SOS in-res (counts towards 1 of the 4 classes you need to take for an Aerospace emphasis for Aeronautical Sciences. I also got 9 credits for C-17 initial qualification (which all count towards the 9 elective credits you need for the degree. So, you wind up only needing to take 1 class to get the BAC+.

Many FTU's will count for those 9 credits and SOS in res does get you 3 more ( all elective). Be advised though, after one class you will have the 15 credits but this will not get you a Bac+. I tried this and denied. I would rec ERAU over some of the other fly-by night jobs out there but it is pricey! So glad my degree is done.

[Vetter]

Nope. Absolutely no change of heart. It's a stupid fucking requirement. But, I agreed to it so I can end up where I want. Long story...

So what's required to get BAC+?

[Keydet]

Nope. Absolutely no change of heart. It's a stupid ######ing requirement. But, I agreed to it so I can end up where I want. Long story...

So what's required to get BAC+?

Shot in the dark, but I imagine you need to complete actual credit hours that add up to the BAC+ threshold. Credits that schools offer for certain military training don't count towards anything but the overall school degree. If I'm wrong, I'll edit it out later.

The University of Louisville has a bunch of totally online programs, and most degree programs offer a "senior paper" rather than a thesis that you need to defend. They reduce all courses to $250/ credit hour so you don't pay a dime in tuition if you spread out the courses. You won't get credit for any military training, but a good option outside of the AMU/TUI realm. I'm nine credits in and am enjoying my classes. https://louisville.edu/online/degree-program.html

[rbigred300]

Shot in the dark, but I imagine you need to complete actual credit hours that add up to the BAC+ threshold. Credits that schools offer for certain military training don't count towards anything but the overall school degree. If I'm wrong, I'll edit it out later.

The University of Louisville has a bunch of totally online programs, and most degree programs offer a "senior paper" rather than a thesis that you need to defend. They reduce all courses to $250/ credit hour so you don't pay a dime in tuition if you spread out the courses. You won't get credit for any military training, but a good option outside of the AMU/TUI realm. I'm nine credits in and am enjoying my classes. https://louisville.ed...ee-program.html

Nope, you can get the BAC+ just fine with the 12 credits for FTU of some sort and SOS in-res, plus an additional 1 class to total 15 credits. After you are done, you have to call up some office at AFIT which is responsible for updating your SURF to reflect BAC+. I think I had to send in a copy of my current transcript showing I had 15 credits. So, like others were saying, if you did something like Brandman where you automatically get 15 credits just for signing up, then you should get the BAC+ in the amount of time to apply for the college, get accepted, and for AFIT to correct your records. At least that has been my experience and the experience of a bunch of my friends...

[Techsan]

I ended up going with AMU & a Military Studies degree. I figured if I had to get an easy, lame, box check degree with minimal effort, I'd prefer reading and writing about military history. With most professors @ AMU, as long as you turn in assignments on time and it looks & smells like a paper, you usually will get an A. For others, you'll get a B.

As an added bonus, if you're a Major or a select, you can transfer over 12 credits from ACSC correspondence, of which I think 6 credits are applied directly to your degree.

I never went to SOS, so I can't tell you if those will transfer, but I imagine they do.

[kaleb283]

I'm graduating this May, but can't commission until October, so I'm looking to start an online Master's program, preferably an MBA. Are there any particular accreditations that the Air Force will not recognize when it comes to degrees?

[slc]

Good lord, I'm 38 yrs old w/ no Masters, 19 yrs complete. When I had to wait on a commission after the Army transitioning to the AF, I took the year off and had the time of my life. How times have changed.

[Danger41]

I'm graduating this May, but can't commission until October, so I'm looking to start an online Master's program, preferably an MBA. Are there any particular accreditations that the Air Force will not recognize when it comes to degrees?

I would take this time to just enjoy your freedom before you get on the train that is the AF. Don't let the "sky is falling" tone of this place make you think you have to rush to hurry to knock out a few credits now. It may be wise or prudent or whatever, but just have some fun FFS. You can get that crap a few years down the road. You won't get that time to hang out with your friends and family back.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

I'm graduating this May, but can't commission until October, so I'm looking to start an online Master's program, preferably an MBA. Are there any particular accreditations that the Air Force will not recognize when it comes to degrees?

No sense in doing it now, enjoy your time off while you have it. Wait until you're eligible for TA, because paying for one of these bullshit degrees out of pocket is a colossal waste. You'll have plenty of time while you are casual or deployed.

[JS]

Is it not true that most schools will not let you do an MBA program if you already have completed an MBA at another school? For exmple, I heard that if you get a bullshit MBA from one school and then try to go to a top University like the University of Chicago, you are not allowed to be admitted into their MBA program.

Does anyone know the accuracy of this statement?

A friend researched it while applying to Emory, I think, after getting a BS MBA. He said they told him "prior MBAs need not apply."

[spaw2001]

A friend researched it while applying to Emory, I think, after getting a BS MBA. He said they told him "prior MBAs need not apply."

Yup. This is true. Universities worth their weight will not let you apply for another MBA if you already have a MBA (that's like going through T-38s twice...not fair). After looking through the thread, a few more points on the on-going BS vs. good degree debate. I firmly fall into the get a valuable degree now camp. I am actually quite passionate and albeit self-proclaimed, well-versed on the subject. For the record, I have a MBA/MS from the Kelley School of Business at Indiana (Full Time Rankings: US News and World Report #23/Business Week #15). So, it is considered top tier but carries less prestige than the big names. It is a well-respected school in the business world and is a national brand that gets people employed throughout the country. I went through their Kelley Direct program which is a hybrid of online and several in-residencies. I am not trying to stage a defense and justify my choosing to pay now for a brick and mortar school. This was a careful decision after a lot of consideration, research, and discussion with folks in the private sector. So, just sharing my thoughts.

I can honestly conclude that the notion that a MBA degree will be obsolete in 6-9 years when you get out is crap. For example, people say, if you can't get a top-20 MBA while you are in the military (which most of us can't due to flying commitments), then don't get one at all because it will be worthless. So....just get the check the box degree and go get a real MBA later. This logic is ill-founded for a variety of reasons.

1. When our pilot commitment is done at age 33-35, we don't know where we will be in life. The chances of dropping everything to go pursue a top-5 MBA and its $150k+ price tag are diminished.

2. Prestigious MBAs and the companies that they feed have an "unwritten" age bias. While they will accept a few folks in their mid-thirties, once again, chances are greatly diminished (i.e. you better be from Kenya and have saved >50 baby seals). The sweet spot for acceptance into MBA programs is late 20s. Companies have a bias because a 36 year old with a family is less likely willing to get used/abused as a low-level associate at goldman sachs. Obviosuly, this isn't gospel and there are exceptions but this is the general trend.

3. People assume that there are no other available degrees for folks that already hold a MBA but would like to give a post-military career transition/credential boost. There are fantastic fellowships (i.e Stanford https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/sloan/sponsors and MIT https://mitsloan.mit.edu/fellows/advantages/) that only take a year and are for mid-career professionals. We would be incredibly competitive and bring a unique perspective to something like this. These do carry a hefty price tag though.

4. There is a weird assumption that there are few intangible benefits to getting a MBA now. This is also incorrect. Before starting at Kelley, I had no real business knowledge or interest. Now, my curiosity for everything business is insatiable. My MBA has turned into a launching pad for seeking more knowledge and being literate in the current business buzz. Sure, if you get the MBA ticket and don't continue your education, some elements might become obsolete. But, isn't this true for any field or degree? In my opinion, the head start on knowledge that I have gotten is worth way more than waiting 5 more years until my pilot training commitment is up and then going to get a degree.

5. People assume that there is no network associated with an online degree from a reputable school. I admit, I was skeptical as well. This was the most surprising element for me while getting my MBA. At the time, Kelley was the top-ranked MBA offering an online degree. (Now, depending on which rankings you look at Kenan-Flager and Kelley share the market with a slight edge to UNC because its school is overall more prestigious than IU...Duke also has a continental MBA but has in-residencies every 8 weeks so not really a player). Anyway, the quality of the students in my class was astounding at Kelley. I thought I had a pretty good record, but I was the dumbass in my initial project group. Remember, these people fall into similar categories as us. They are top professionals unable to break away from their career to get a MBA. Therefore, they chose to go the part-time route and sought out the most prestigious options. This leads to an incredible network and one that I keep in contact/consult with often. I am actually working on a side venture with a fellow Alum. I get it....Going to Harvard and tapping into that network in a full-time program is powerful. Remember though, these people sacrifice 2 years of income, and incur tons of debt to get this opportunity. With the rising tuition prices and the ever-increasing capabilities of online technology/robustness in MBA program online delivery, distance programs are becoming a viable substitute. Based on feedback from colleagues, the majority of companies (there are a few that have a prestige bias: Investment Banking/Wall Street Consulting) don't really care how you get your MBA as long is it has some level of branded-prestige and is AACSB accredited. Sure, a top-5 MBA will give you a boost, but at the end of the day it is about the complete-person and the unique experience brought to the table.

6. The Air Force has skewed the cost structure of getting an education. Many think the going rate of getting a good education is $250/ credit hour. That is the going rate for a "for profit" school that has figured out how to get military members to go with them. The reality is, in order to get a degree of repute, it is going to cost "out of pocket" money or the use of the GI Bill. For reference, IU cost 60K for my dual degree and was cash-flowed and supplemented by the GI BIll. I still have about 18 months left on my GI Bill.

At the end of the day, I believe that if we are going to do the work, might as well make it meaningful and something we can leverage in the future. That is my rant for now on the subject....

Edited February 3, 2013 by spaw2001

[Jaded]

And you've used your 'prestigious' MBA to do what so far?

[Guest one]

In my opinion, it is not about what you do with the degree while on active duty but what you can do with after you get out. With a median income of almost $200,000 a year from the University of Chicago, I don't see how you can argue with the stats. The career services Booth graduates have for alumni is among the best.

It would be nice to do 20 years in the Air Force, do ten more years on the outside getting almost $200,000 a year, and then retire without a care in the world.

Edited February 3, 2013 by one

[BONE WSO]

IMO, if you can't or don't want to fly for the airlines, getting an MBA from a top school is the best thing you can do for your career. I went to the Military Prospective Student Day at Harvard Business School last year and met a ton of great guys that were all headed to ridiculously good jobs. I can verify that these guys are in fact starting out at around $200,000. They didn't have any superstar stats. They were doing the same things that we do every day. It totally changed my perception of what it was like at a top school. The veterans clubs are pretty strong and it was pretty much like hanging out with guys from the squadron.

I visited HBS, Wharton, Tuck, and Kellogg and all of them love military guys and are trying to recruit more of us. My original plan was to go to a top ten school full-time but I have an awesome SQ/CC who let me enroll at the University of Texas part-time. I have to drive from Abilene to Dallas every other weekend and have class on Fridays and Saturday's but it beats being jobless for two years.

[dream big]

Yup. This is true. Universities worth their weight will not let you apply for another MBA if you already have a MBA (that's like going through T-38s twice...not fair). After looking through the thread, a few more points on the on-going BS vs. good degree debate. I firmly fall into the get a valuable degree now camp. I am actually quite passionate and albeit self-proclaimed, well-versed on the subject. For the record, I have a MBA/MS from the Kelley School of Business at Indiana (Full Time Rankings: US News and World Report #23/Business Week #15). So, it is considered top tier but carries less prestige than the big names. It is a well-respected school in the business world and is a national brand that gets people employed throughout the country. I went through their Kelley Direct program which is a hybrid of online and several in-residencies. I am not trying to stage a defense and justify my choosing to pay now for a brick and mortar school. This was a careful decision after a lot of consideration, research, and discussion with folks in the private sector. So, just sharing my thoughts.

I can honestly conclude that the notion that a MBA degree will be obsolete in 6-9 years when you get out is crap. For example, people say, if you can't get a top-20 MBA while you are in the military (which most of us can't due to flying commitments), then don't get one at all because it will be worthless. So....just get the check the box degree and go get a real MBA later. This logic is ill-founded for a variety of reasons.

1. When our pilot commitment is done at age 33-35, we don't know where we will be in life. The chances of dropping everything to go pursue a top-5 MBA and its $150k+ price tag are diminished.

2. Prestigious MBAs and the companies that they feed have an "unwritten" age bias. While they will accept a few folks in their mid-thirties, once again, chances are greatly diminished (i.e. you better be from Kenya and have saved >50 baby seals). The sweet spot for acceptance into MBA programs is late 20s. Companies have a bias because a 36 year old with a family is less likely willing to get used/abused as a low-level associate at goldman sachs. Obviosuly, this isn't gospel and there are exceptions but this is the general trend.

3. People assume that there are no other available degrees for folks that already hold a MBA but would like to give a post-military career transition/credential boost. There are fantastic fellowships (i.e Stanford https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/sloan/sponsors and MIT https://mitsloan.mit.edu/fellows/advantages/) that only take a year and are for mid-career professionals. We would be incredibly competitive and bring a unique perspective to something like this. These do carry a hefty price tag though.

4. There is a weird assumption that there are few intangible benefits to getting a MBA now. This is also incorrect. Before starting at Kelley, I had no real business knowledge or interest. Now, my curiosity for everything business is insatiable. My MBA has turned into a launching pad for seeking more knowledge and being literate in the current business buzz. Sure, if you get the MBA ticket and don't continue your education, some elements might become obsolete. But, isn't this true for any field or degree? In my opinion, the head start on knowledge that I have gotten is worth way more than waiting 5 more years until my pilot training commitment is up and then going to get a degree.

5. People assume that there is no network associated with an online degree from a reputable school. I admit, I was skeptical as well. This was the most surprising element for me while getting my MBA. At the time, Kelley was the top-ranked MBA offering an online degree. (Now, depending on which rankings you look at Kenan-Flager and Kelley share the market with a slight edge to UNC because its school is overall more prestigious than IU...Duke also has a continental MBA but has in-residencies every 8 weeks so not really a player). Anyway, the quality of the students in my class was astounding at Kelley. I thought I had a pretty good record, but I was the dumbass in my initial project group. Remember, these people fall into similar categories as us. They are top professionals unable to break away from their career to get a MBA. Therefore, they chose to go the part-time route and sought out the most prestigious options. This leads to an incredible network and one that I keep in contact/consult with often. I am actually working on a side venture with a fellow Alum. I get it....Going to Harvard and tapping into that network in a full-time program is powerful. Remember though, these people sacrifice 2 years of income, and incur tons of debt to get this opportunity. With the rising tuition prices and the ever-increasing capabilities of online technology/robustness in MBA program online delivery, distance programs are becoming a viable substitute. Based on feedback from colleagues, the majority of companies (there are a few that have a prestige bias: Investment Banking/Wall Street Consulting) don't really care how you get your MBA as long is it has some level of branded-prestige and is AACSB accredited. Sure, a top-5 MBA will give you a boost, but at the end of the day it is about the complete-person and the unique experience brought to the table.

6. The Air Force has skewed the cost structure of getting an education. Many think the going rate of getting a good education is $250/ credit hour. That is the going rate for a "for profit" school that has figured out how to get military members to go with them. The reality is, in order to get a degree of repute, it is going to cost "out of pocket" money or the use of the GI Bill. For reference, IU cost 60K for my dual degree and was cash-flowed and supplemented by the GI BIll. I still have about 18 months left on my GI Bill.

At the end of the day, I believe that if we are going to do the work, might as well make it meaningful and something we can leverage in the future. That is my rant for now on the subject....

2...I also am getting my MBA from IU and I can't be happier. If you are military and have decent stats they give you a military scholarship; on top of TA the tuition comes to about 20k out of pocket, which student loans and the GI bill can help with.

I know the AF does not care but I could care less as long as I am checking the box in their eyes. This degree is for that inevitable time in my life where I leave the AF, voluntarily or involuntarily and want something that will stand on its own two feet.

Between flying and the MBA it is a lot of time spent, but I make it work and still have time for weekend drinking exploits.

[JS]

Before starting at Kelley, I had no real business knowledge or interest. Now, my curiosity for everything business is insatiable. My MBA has turned into a launching pad for seeking more knowledge and being literate in the current business buzz.

Agreed. It also helps you understand things like TSP, Roth, taxes, mortgages, and lot of other things that I have ranted about in the threads on taxes and TSP investments. It is painfully obvious that a lot of people (and many on this message board) really don't understand how tax rates work or how to figure out the net present value of their mortgage and investment opportunities in order to make a more informed, optimal decision with regards to taxes, investments, and mortgages.

Going to Harvard and tapping into that network in a full-time program is powerful. Remember though, these people sacrifice 2 years of income, and incur tons of debt to get this opportunity.

Very good point. I have had this discussion with a lot of smart people in the past. I think you have to pick your poison. A fellow grad of "State" MBA school would argue with me until he was blue in the face that going to a top-10 program is worth it, regardless of the costs, and that our mid-tier MBA was totally "worthless." I told him that for a lot of part-timers, the State MBA served to compliment their already rising careers quite nicely. His argument was always that Harvard MBAs were just a cut above the rest and that you would automatically walk out the door there with a $200K job offer. The big difference between me and him was that he had zero work experience and was sort of hoping that the MBA would get him started at some great $100K job. I reiterated that I made the same before and after my MBA at my civilian job, but my business knowledge was obviously higher and that the MBA would accelerate my rise in the company (unless I quit and joined the military, which is what I did, of course).

But either way, like you said, you have to take into account the opportunity cost (nice MBA term) of not working for two years as well as the debt to go to one of these great schools. In my case, I stood to lose over $150K in salary, just for the opportunity to go into debt $170K for Harvard or other similarly priced schools (several others are more expensive). In doing the Net-present Value calculations (wow, we learn the exact same MBA concepts at State that all AACSB schools learn), I figured I would just stay at my job, get the MBA for free, and continue doing what I was doing. That is over a $300K swing, not taking interest rates into account. Sure, you can probably land a nice job leaving one of the big MBA schools, but you might have to give up your job doing something you love near your hometown in order to be in the rat race in NYC doing investment banking or something like that.

But in the end, I tend to agree with you. Unless you are 100% sure that you only need to "check the box" and get the degree to keep moving up in the military or other GS government job, I would splurge a tad and try to get a reputable MBA that you can somehow get for an affordable price using the GI Bill or whatever.

[JS]

With a median income of almost $200,000 a year from the University of Chicago, I don't see how you can argue with the stats.

For the record, I am a fan of getting a decent MBA, and I strongly believe in networking and making your own luck. But since you asked, I can easily show you how one can "argue with the stats" in this case with regards to median incomes and starting salaries.

1. For starters, all of the median incomes a school publishes are heavily biased, because the school publishes them. There is obvious incentive to make those numbers as high as possible to dupe people into thinking that every one who pays $170K for their MBA will automatically walk out the door with a $200K job.

2. These numbers are gathered through surveys of alumni from the school. Say, for example, that there was hefty unemployment among MBAs at said school. Do you think the unemployed will respond to the surveys and write back to the school that their salary is $0? That would heavily skew the median. Reality is that a very large percentage does not respond to the surveys either because they are unemployed, or are perhaps working menial jobs making average money that they don't feel is worthy, literally, to write home about. Either way, the numbers will be rigged on the high side.

3. By definition, median is the number that can be found by lining up all the salaries and "picking the middle one." There are a lot of ways that can be very deceiving and misleading. The salary breakdown could easily have 49 graduates making $70K, 1 person making $200K, and 49 people making $1M. That would put the median salary at $200K. This, of course, doesn't include all of the $0 salaries that probably weren't reported.

4. Even if the distribution of salaries did look like my previous example. How/where did the 49 alum making $1M make their money? Did they have "normal" salaries of $70K before going to Booth and then their salaries jumped to $1M the day they graduated? Or did they perhaps inherit Daddy's company or Daddy's connections to get promoted? Or were they just superstars before they even started business school, and they just continued on their upward path regardless of getting the MBA? I always have had heartburn when people talk about median salaries, because they honestly believe that there is a chance that they will automatically start at that median salary simply by graduating from said school.

5. What time frame is the data from? Does it include alums who graduated 60 years ago and have had a long, successful career building up their business or salary? If their high salaries were included in the mix, that sure as hell would skew the numbers pretty good. Matter of fact, a lot of recent graduates would have to make much less than the median in order to balance out the high-earners in the calculations.

6. Are the numbers being reported even accurate? Let's say, for example, that all respondents of the survey came back saying they made $200K/year. Do you think Chicago verifies that by asking for tax returns, W-2s, or other evidence? What if those numbers were inflated to make the respondents feel good or something?

7. Is that private sector only, or does it include public jobs?

I will bet my MBA, along with a years salary, that if 10 random Air Force dudes all went to the University of Chicago at age 31, they would not all be starting at jobs paying $200K after graduating with the MBA. I think you will have fast-burners who will succeed anyway, and you have people who get an advanced degree to try and compensate for a lack of talent in the "real world" of business. Either way, there will be major disparities in income between graduates from the same MBA program.

Remember, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. I used to say that I could debunk, throw enough doubt into, or make irrelevant most every statistic. Now, I can confidently say that I can make irreverent or debunk all statistics out there. I have given that challenge to a lot of friends, and so far I have not been proven wrong. My point is that you have to be very skeptical when looking at these average starting salaries and such coming from these expensive schools.

One more story. There was an article in the NY Times a while back (too lazy to try and look it up) about a bunch of lawyers who graduated from a mid-level law school. Of course, the "average starting salary" was something like $90K or something. Plus there were some very questionable statistics about the 90% employment rates of the law schools graduates. Of course, of the 2/3 of the class that were lucky enough to find jobs, most were for like $40K, part-time, or didn't require a law degree. The graduates corresponded with each other and the math just didn't add up. With a little digging, it was obvious the school used classic statistical deception with the numbers - included a few high-salary law partners in the numbers but somehow excluded all the unemployed or entry-level jobs or some crap. And what did the load of recent-graduate, blood-sucking, scumbag lawyers do in return???? Yup, they sued the law school. Classic.

Actually, here is a followup to the original NY Times article.

Edited February 4, 2013 by JS