EC-130

[Guest 130 wife]

My husband is currently training at Corpus Christi and will be selecting his aircraft soon. Neither one of us have heard much about the EC but we would like to live in Tuscon. We don't want to choose an aircraft strictly based on location though. My question is does anyone here know much about this aircraft and lifestyle? He would really like to get into a special ops plane eventually. Would this hurt his chances later on if he got an EC now? Thanks in advance for entertaining questions from a newbie.

[PapaJu]

Just fwiw, there is also a HC-130 (rescue) squadron based at D-M AFB if he wants to try for that as well...

[LJ Driver]

Changing airplanes within a command (ie AFSOC EC-130 to AFSOC AC-130 or whatever else) is always easier then changing planes AND commands (ie AMC C-130 to AFSOC HC-130). That doesn't mean it cannot be done. Sometimes the kids at AFPC get restless when people try to change commands.

[Guest KoolKat]

Where do the majority of AFSOC pilots come from? I would imagine that more and more come straight from UPT recently, but that's just a WAG.

Don't a large majority of pilots change command to fill AFSOC spots, at least as many as straight from UPT or change plane designation within?

[kkboris]

FYI,

The EC-130s at D-M are not AFSOC, they are ACC. AFSOC's only EC's are the Guard guys (Commando Solo) at Harrisburg, PA. It's not easy to predict the best way to change airframes later on, but as a general rule LJ Driver was correct, AFSOC (HC-130's) to AFSOC (AC/MC-130's) would be easier. Slick C-130's would be next (since he'll already have low-level experience). If AFSOC is his ultimate goal, I think EC-130's might be the toughest way to go. But you never know, I went from EC-130's (ABCCC) to MC-130's 6 years ago.

Also, Tucson is an outstanding place to be stationed, my wife and I had almost 5 great years there.

[Guest SUMA]

Originally posted by kkboris:

FYI,

If AFSOC is his ultimate goal, I think EC-130's might be the toughest way to go.

I would disagree. People I have talked to tell me that EC-130s are a good feeder into the Gunship world (one of my instructors took that route). Since neither airframe requires a Tac Qual, the bean counters at AFPC see it as an even trade. If they send a slick driver to gunships, they just lost all the time and money they put into giving that pilot his Tac Qual. Some studs at Corpus even talk about taking EC-130s for just that reason. Personally, I think that takes it a step too far. I hope I'm wrong, because my dream career would be Talon II out of Corpus for two tours followed by a gunship tour.

[ClearedHot]

Originally posted by SUMA:

I hope I'm wrong, because my dream career would be Talon II out of Corpus for two tours followed by a gunship tour.

Won't happen... Tour tours in the TII and the mafia won't let you go.

[Guest SUMA]

Are you saying which ever Spec Ops platform I track out of Corpus will be my whole flying career?

[kkboris]

Not necessarily your whole career, probably until you are an O-5/O-6. AFSOC is not going to want to move an experienced Talon II pilot (probably an IP, maybe an evaluator) to gunships. It is bad for the officer, and bad for the command.

1. You leave behind your expertise in low-level, airdrops, NVG landings, air refueling, etc to go to an airframe with a completely different mission.

2. You find yourself now competing for jobs/promotion with guys who have been flying the gunship for 10 years, and who know all the senior leaders in the gunship community.

I'm not saying crossflow between AC's and MC's doesn't happen, but it is very rare until late in your career.

[ClearedHot]

I personally know of three pilots who upgraded to IP and transferred to the TII shortly thereafter to get experience in another AFSOC platform. All three have since tried to return to the gunship and none of them has been successful.

[HerkDerka]

130wife

Just let him know that if he goes to EC's. We won't be doing any low-level, nvg, form (ie any of the fun tac stuff).

The EC is a very interesting mission, but low reward flying.

HD

[Batman]

I was in the EC-130s in the late 90s and it turned out to be a blessing. Tucson is a great town for married and single folks--U of A and 4th Avenue provide great entertainment.

As for the flying, we were getting tons of flight hours. We had pilots upgrading much faster than most units. In fact, we had pilots going to IP school at the same time their buddies from copilot school were arriving back to LR for the AC course.

The reason for our abundant number of flying hours (500-600/yr) was our deployments to the Balkins. The EC-130s were flying 10-12 hr sorties, boring holes in the sky. Only good news was we got to do aerial refueling, which I think is more rewarding than assault landings.

I know the EC-130 are still deploying but can't say for sure how many flight hours they're getting right now. Their pilot manning was very high about a year ago, so perhaps the flying hours are only going to those that deploy and less for the folks back home.

Deployments will be just like the rest of the AF. Expect to be gone for 1/2 the year at least. I was going on-average, 230 days/year in the EC-130--of which 80% were deployments and the other 20% SOS, AC/IP school, etc. Our excessive TDY rate gained Air Staff attention and things got better my last year--closer to 190/yr.

Expect to be gone for 3-4 months at a time and then come back for 3-4 months at Tucson.

As for going to Special Ops--we had pilots/navs crossing over all the time. In fact, most pilots went to AC-130s, MC-130s, including Talons. Others went to C-21s, C-5s, and U-2s. A couple even went to slick C-130s (Dyess). I went to the schoolhouse from EC-130s with AFPC sending me to Phase 2 and 3, enroute. One of our navigators left the EC-130 for one of Little Rock's active duty, operational slick squadrons.

Overall, a great town and although the mission isn't the most exciting it can be very rewarding and set your husband up for other aviation opportunities.

Best of luck.

-Batman

[ 13. June 2005, 23:54: Message edited by: Batman ]

[Guest neldogg]

Old thread but I thought I'd revive it before asking the same questions.

I'm about to finish up at corpus and have been doing a lot of research as to where I'd like to go. I'm from arizona so an assignment to DM seems enticing. I'm interested in AFSOC, but not quite sure if it fits me. I can imagine the ec-130 has an interesting mission, but I'd like to know more about it. I assume flights consist mostly of orbits, some guy in the back bossing the guys up front.. But I have no idea.

If anyone can shed a little light on whether the mission is worth the tradeoff of being close to home it would help out a lot. And how are deployments these days? More/less than slicks or mc's or ac's? Do you still log a lot of hours? Dreamsheets go in soon, just wanted to get an idea.

Thanks in advance

[Herk Driver]

Old thread but I thought I'd revive it before asking the same questions.

I'm about to finish up at corpus and have been doing a lot of research as to where I'd like to go. I'm from arizona so an assignment to DM seems enticing. I'm interested in AFSOC, but not quite sure if it fits me. I can imagine the ec-130 has an interesting mission, but I'd like to know more about it. I assume flights consist mostly of orbits, some guy in the back bossing the guys up front.. But I have no idea.

If anyone can shed a little light on whether the mission is worth the tradeoff of being close to home it would help out a lot. And how are deployments these days? More/less than slicks or mc's or ac's? Do you still log a lot of hours? Dreamsheets go in soon, just wanted to get an idea.

Thanks in advance

For mission info, try to find someone to talk with. Last time I was deployed (Christmas last year), I talked with the EC guys and they were deploying more than the slick guys on average. Interesting mission...old @ss airplanes.

Edited July 7, 2010 by Herk Driver

[UDEL09]

Thread revival- Just dropped EC's and was interested in finding out more about the squadrons and pipeline flow after Little Rock. Thanks in advance for the help

[Guest Bill Lumbergh]

Here is the quick and dirty on the EC-130H:

1. Little Rock is phase 1 only, no tac approaches, low-level, or formation. Study hard and don't forget everything you learned on the way to DM, because you may be sitting up to two months waiting for a flight deck academic class to start. Instructors and evaluators are getting frustrated with students who can't remember basic aircraft systems and checklist procedures when they finally get back in the right seat. Don't fall in love with SCNS at Little Rock, because ECs don't have it.

2. Academics go by quickly; mostly aircraft difference training and mission familiarization, then off to the flight line. Expect lots of down time and a few breaks in training because the airplanes are old and maintenance delays/cancellations are very common. There is no flight deck simulator at DM, at least not for the next couple of years, but you can practice procedures in the familiarization trainer across the parking lot from the FTU. With all the down time (once again) stay in the books to maintain your Dash One knowledge and learn the AFTTP 3-1. Air refueling is a blast, and learning to stay behind the tanker will take up the majority of your syllabus.

3. There are two ops squadrons and you'll likely fly with both of them while you work your way through the syllabus. You should find out which one you are going to when you arrive at the FTU.

4. I guarantee that your name is already on a deployment schedule (it's spelled FNG for now...) and they are anxiously awaiting your arrival. The EC-130 has been ACCs most deployed fixed-wing asset for the last couple of years. You will deploy constantly in this airframe, and can expect around 260 to 300 hours for every 90 days deployed. Make sure your significant other (if applicable) is prepared for this, because you will be spending a lot of time away from home and you will need to manage expectations. Deployment locations are not bad, but not great, either. The mission is good, but the flying can be underwhelming...

5. Cross-flow opportunities have not been great for the last couple of years, especially with regard to AFSOC. We used to see a few pilots flowing to AC-130s, but the last one I was aware of was three years ago. There is still a rescue unit down the street but I have only seen one pilot move there in the last 5 years. Most pilots who leave the EC-130 are doing so to go to white jets or an OSA. There have also been a few cats and dogs that go up to the parent wing at Offutt to fly the RJ.

6. Tucson is a great town: U of A is right in the middle of downtown, and the scenery isn't bad. Lots of golf courses if you are so inclined, and Phoenix is about a 2 to 2.5 hour drive north. Find something you like about Tucson, because tour lengths are longer than average: pilots and navigators have been known to stay on station up to 6 years, so don't burn your bridges when your name shows up on the VML, because it doesn' t mean anything...

I enjoyed my time in Tucson, and the mission can be very rewarding. I flew as much as I could and had a blast most of the time. Years and years of deployed ops are taking a toll on the airplanes, but you're going to see that wherever you go. PM me if you have any specific questions, and good luck.

[theSituation]

Any specifics on the EWO side of the house?

[flipper]

Exactly what Lumbergh said. I just left there so I've got some pretty current info-- Rewarding mission, but pretty vanilla on the pilot side. PM me if you have any questions.

[UDEL09]

PM sent thanks for the replies

[ThreeHoler]

Clicked on this thread in Chrome and got:

"www.flyingsquadron.com contains content from www.rotharmy.com, a site known to distribute malware. Your computer might catch a virus if you visit this site."

[Guest Bill Lumbergh]

Any specifics on the EWO side of the house?

The EWO side of the house has a much more rigorous syllabus and you'll spend significantly more time in the academic and flight phases. The EWO is trained to be a mission crew commander from ride one, so expectations are higher than in other platforms. Washout rate is pretty low, but the syllabus can get bloody in a hurry, so it does happen...not a good thing to have on your record with Force Shaping, RIFs, etc. still in play, so study hard (sts). Hadn't seen any students from the new CSO pipeline, so can't offer any advice on how the new program is preparing them for their MWS; there is some apprehension that basic EWO knowledge won't be on par with graduates from Randolph, but we'll see how it plays out. EWO manning was a little better than the pilots, so deployment schedule isn't as rigorous: you can still expect to deploy at least once a year. Also, EWOs tend to soak up a lot of the CAOC LNO billets after their first or second deployment.

The EC-130H is a great platform for EWOs: Offensive platform with a good, challenging mission set, and the opportunity to execute some of your core mission competencies every day downrange.