Effects of a DUI / DWI

[Guest Jason4638]

I was out driving and I had a few beers before (a couple hours) and I was completely sober... I was pulled because I was in a friend car with daytime running lights, so the headlights were already on and I didn't manually turn on the lights and I figured the taillights would be on as well. Unfortunately, I ended up recieving a DUI-minor because the cop could smell the beer on me. I did deferred disposition or adjudication (same thing) and this allows me to take community service and alcohol awareness class and not be convicted of it. When I turn 21, I will be able to have this expunged off of my record and there will be absolutely no traces of it.

So, will I have any trouble with this going into Air Force ROTC and getting a pilot slot? Keep in mind that people over 21 cannot get a DUI in Texas and only get DWIs, but a minor can get DWIs. I was not intoxicated and I passed the sobriety test. Can anyone help me out?

[Guest uptSTUDXL]

If I am reading this correct, you are talking about Texas's zero tolerance law for alcohol and minors; meaning no minor can have any alcohol in/on him.

If it is on your record, you may have some problemns hiding it. When you first enter ROTC you are supposed to give them all of your tickets and fines that you have ever received. So there is the first place you may have to admit it.

Second, for your security clearance, they will invistagate your record. People will tell you dont put it down but there is a story of a person that went to my det who hide something from his record before his commissioning investigation (his lawyer advised him to do so and told him that there was no way the air force or anyone could find out) and the air force found out and he was disenrolled from the det (and i know for sure he didn't commission).

Third, you say it will be off of your record but there will always be a record of it.

Either way, I say admit it and confess. If you are entering AFROTC, confess it right away. I dont believe it will hurt you (know plenty of people that admitted to smoking pot when they entered and are now flying and doing other things). Heck, I would report in to the commander and explain to him everything. It shows responsability and maturity and that you aren't afraid of admiting mistakes or taking punishment. JUST DONT LET IT HAPPEN AGAIN. There will be no excuse if it happens while you are in AFROTC and you will be judged against a different standard.

If you are in ROTC, admit it. Will it effect your chances of getting a pilot slot? It could but it should motivate you to work harder on your PFT, GPA and leadership in the corps to prove to them that it was just a mistake. People from my det got pilot slots and nav slots with alcohol incidents on their record.

[Guest Wxpunk]

I did deferred disposition or adjudication (same thing) and this allows me to take community service and alcohol awareness class and not be convicted of it.

If you weren't convicted, it doesn't exist and you don't have to report it. The paperwork is asking for convicted felonies and misdemeanors, not accusations.

If you didn't mean to type that and you were convicted, then STUD's advice is fairly solid.

Good Luck!

----------------

Wxpunk

[Toro]

Originally posted by Jason4638:

I had a few drinks a few hours before hand and I was perfectly capable of driving. Remember, if you are over the age of 21, you cannot get a DUI because there is no such thing. You would simply get a DWI if you were proven to be intoxicated.

SOAPBOX SWITCH ON - Dude, you're under 21. If you're under 21 and get pulled over after drinking and driving...first off, you're an idiot, second off, you're damn lucky if you don't get your a$$ thrown through the wringer.

SOAPBOX SWITCH OFF - No matter where you are in your life, if you have any run-in with the law and it goes on your record, investigators can find a record of it...expunged or not. Will this have any effect on you getting an ROTC slot? Can't say, but if it was the minor deal you make it out to be, I would say no. If your DUI/DWI doesn't hinder your ROTC slot, it won't hinder your pilot slot. Whatever you do, DO NOT lie about it - disclose it to whoever asks.

Keep in mind that people over 21 cannot get a DUI in Texas and only get DWIs

You're talking semantics. I've you've been drinking and you drive, nobody cares what the hell it's called - you will have a drunk driving mark on your record.

[Guest F16PilotMD]

Jason

This has nothing to do with being a pilot or a doc, but I have reviewed a few cases like yours in the past. First, you're not an idiot and don't approach this mistake in that vein. No one will want to hear you explain this away by saying you were just stupid, etc. With VERY FEW EXCEPTIONS, there are those who have made this mistake and those few who have gotten caught. There are very few who have done neither. What people want to know is what you've done since and how you act now. Admit it up front and make darn sure you don't have any other incidents in the future. Two strikes and you're out.

[ 19. August 2004, 22:13: Message edited by: F16PilotMD ]

[Guest gnabanav]

It's gonna come back to haunt you for the rest of you life. I got in trouble when I was 14, and my record was expunged when I turned 18. When I joined the AF at 19 I had to give a detailed account of what happened. Then when I was 24 and got my ROTC scholarship I had to again give a detailed account of the incedent, and then once I got my nav slot, at 26, I again had to give an account the incedent. So something I did over half my life ago still has an effect on my life today.

The best thing to do though is be honest from the start. If they find out about it, and they will, and you didn't tell them, you can expect nothing but a headache. Becausue when they do your security clearance they will talk to you grandmas, neighbors, best friend and eventually someone will tell them about it.

[Guest AFRecruiter]

Jason4368

As a recruiter, I know first hand that regardless of what the judge or defender told you, IT IS ON YOUR RECORD--especially when Uncle Sam is looking at your record.

When the federal investigators run your package for security clearance, it will show up. If you did not admit to it before, its game over.

A DUI will require a waiver for entry into the USAF. Your best bet is to follow uptSTUDXL's advice. Admit to it and go from there. In the Air Force, its Integrity First.

Best of luck.

[Guest Jason4638]

I appreciate all the replies everyone gave. It helped out a lot because ROTC is real important to me and I am extremely disappointed with myself. I had to fill out all the paperwork today and I certainly put filled it out completely. I expect more paperwork to come as a result of this, but as long as I get in and have a shot at a pilot slot, I don't care.

Someone (can't find where I read it) mentioned that as long as I get into ROTC with the DUI on my record, that it won't have any more negative effects trying to get a pilot slot. Is this true or will it also give me a disadvantage?

[Guest Patriot 328]

If it was a deferred judgement in lieu for community ervice it will not turn up. However, tell the truth of course.

You ar enot the first tperson to make a mistake. Your reaction and attitude to their questions if they are asked is what will count.

Were you arraigned? Technically no. We're you cited, or arrested? Probably yes. Answer all of the questions honestly. How long has it been? Are there any other infractions they would want to know about? Be it driving or criminal?

Good luck. If everything else is cool, this will not in itself disqualify you from anything in life.

[Guest flightcrazed]

Jason-

I'm not sure if my post will help you but I had the same thing in Iowa after I joined the Navy. I got a deferred judication and it was supposed to never be on my record as long as I didn't f@#* up again....and I didn't. The Navy never found out about it and I got my Final Secret security clearance just fine, and kept it the entire time I was in, even a couple years afterwards. Not sure if that helps...but I think what the guys here are saying that you need to be truthful, and I agree. Now I don't have a pilot slot or anything like that. Heck, I'm still working on my degree. Bottom line is, the choice is yours. Best of luck to ya.

[Guest rbutcher]

I've been reading with regards to DUI's and it seems that if you have two strikes against you, your out. Does this refer to minor in possesion? I had a MIP in 99 and a DUI on 2000, but I've been clean ever since. Does this disqualify me from a pilot slot?

[Guest CAVOK]

rbutcher,

Lay off the hooch!

The DUI is considered a Category 2 Moral Offense, it is a major offense (you would not want to see the list of other major offenses), and can only be waived for entrance into the AF by recruiting group commanders or deputy commanders.

The MIP is considered a Category 4 Moral Offense, it is a less serious offense. Two Cat 4 convictions in the last 3 years, or 3 or more in a lifetime require a waiver by a recruiting squadron commander.

Moral Waivers. Circumstances may mitigate disqualifications and should be considered in waiver decisions: Immaturity attributable to age at the time of the offense, and transitory conditions contributing to the conduct (divorce, serious illness or death in immediate family, etc.).

Since you were probably around 20 when the MIP happened, don't count on the waiver.

Because you have 2 different levels of Moral Offenses, you would be under the guidance of the more restrictive. I could not find that there was a "limit" to the number of violations. Even if there is not one written, I'm sure they have an unofficial rule of thumb. So...the Group level would be your waiver authority.

Your waiver requires a personal statement, so make it a GREAT one. Not excuses, but what you learned and how it changed your life for the better & gave you a more determined focus to straighten up & pursue the AF, yadda, yadda.

And your package needs to be rock solid. It will be a tough road, but it is sooooo worth it! Good luck.

CAVOK

[Guest skipplet]

https://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/blafoffense.htm

[pcola]

I had a DUI on New Years eve, 1997/1998. I was selected for OTS last year and am now at pilot training. It can be done, but it takes a lot of persistance, luck, and maybe even a good word from the right person.

A few details: I had a pcsm in the high 90's, all AFOQT scores in the mid to high 90's, EE degree, a year of professional work experience as an Electrical Engineer (civilian DOD employee, GS-11), prior enlisted, NCAA Div 1 Track athlete, and 4 years ROTC in college. Even considering all this, the recruiting commander in the region where I applied initially refused to grant me an interview for the moral waiver. Luckily for me, my former ROTC det. commander (O-6) put in a good word for me, I got the interview, and the rest is history.

Just thought I could give you a perspective from someone who's "been there, done that." I feel incredibly lucky to have been given this chance in spite of my youthful indescretions, and if I can do it, anybody can. Keep knocking on the doors, they don't just open on their own.

[Guest Robes]

rbutcher,

From what I have seen with my ANG unit, they will throw out every packages that has a DUI or the like in their past... A luxury they can afford.

That being said this is a little bit of advice for anyone who ever gets pulled over, submit to the testing since most states have the statute where a refusal is the same thing as going over the legal limit.

Robes

[Guest CAVOK]

Robes,

Your unit is not unique. Once again, they are hiring for a lifetime & that can be a huge discriminator between two applicants. I do not personally know anyone who was hired off the streets into a Guard or Reserve unit with a DUI. On the other hand, since they are hiring on personality quite often, I'm sure it has happened.

CAVOK

[pcola]

Before I was selected fot OTS I had an interiew with a C-130 ANG unit. I didn't get the job, but the DUI never even came up. They didn't ask about any incidents in the interview and it wasn't on any of the paperwork they required. I thought that was strange, because I thought that would be the main thing that would burn me. Just a unique perspective, I'm definitely not advocating that anybody press their luck. A message to all the kiddies, just don't do it, life was so much simpler pre-DUI.

[Guest T]

i'm currently in my second year of college and am thinking of applying to an guard unit here after i graduate or join the rotc unit at my school. but heres my problem, would i have any chance of landing a pilot slot with 2 dui arrest on my record. one was when i was 16 and the other was last year (my friend was back on his R&R from iraq and i was taking him out, i blew a .085 but the cop was a real d*ick so i got arrested). so what do you think about my chances?

[WHAP]

Asking cant hurt, but i dont think there is any chance. Considering they are kicking rated pilots out of the AF for getting one DUI.

[Guest Absolutlyfly]

I am going with a firm 'NO'. There is no room in the Air Force for people who cannot control their drinking or actions.

Like the other dudes said you can ask, but be prepared to hear a lot of laughing on the other end of the phone.

[Guest PilotKD]

Originally posted by Matt Damon:

I am going with a firm 'NO'. There is no room in the Air Force for people who cannot control their drinking or actions.

Like the other dudes said you can ask, but be prepared to hear a lot of laughing on the other end of the phone.

Yeah. No offense, but you are the reason why I gouge my eyes out through about 35 mandatory briefings a year telling us not to drink and drive. Not 1, but 2 of them? Are you kidding?

[ 24. February 2006, 17:44: Message edited by: PilotKD ]

[Guest MileHigh]

I am 18 and I plan on attending UAA next year. I am interested in becoming an air force pilot, and I want to take AFROTC. I am worried about the fact that when I was 15, I was arrested for a DUI. Given the circumstances that I was just a stupid kid at the time who had poor judgement and made a mistake and that I have no other offenses on my record, I was wondering if this incident would have any effect on me joining ROTC or becoming a pilot? Also, if I get the DUI expunged from my record, would I still have to notify them of this?

[Guest KoolKat]

A DUI when you were 15? WTF!

Do a search on this the entire forum. We've gone through it before. They're are varying opinions on wether you volunteer such info unless asked. Check that out.

Personally, I think if your honest about it, own up to your stupidity, you should be fine.

No promises, Plug along....Good Luck.

BENDY

[Guest ShortThrow]

I think it depends on the detachment you will be trying to join. I mean the fact that you were drinking when you were 15 could be enough to say no, but the fact that you were driving also is another hurdle you'll have to jump. But the only thing you can do is try it out.

[Guest Hydro130]

True...

Even when you get offenses (DUIS or otherwise) officially expunged (meaning you don't have to disclose those offenses to potential employers, schools, etc), the one monster out there that you DO still have to disclose to is Uncle Sam! No exeptions...

So, even if you get it expunged (reccommended), you'll DEFINITELY still need to disclose the offense for ROTC, sec clearances, etc.

Just be very up front about it, be remorseful, and if you did any community service, treatment programs, etc, then bring evidence of that in too.

But definitely do not lie or try to hide it (even behind an expungement). That will smoke you 100% of the time...

Cheers, Hydro