Arnold Air Society (AAS)

[Guest Birdie]

I am a freshman at Riddle trying to decide how to get involved (there are so many clubs and stuff here). While I want to join clubs that are fun, and orginizations that are beneficial, I am also choosing how to spend my time based on what will rank me the highest among other cadets so I can secure a pilot candidate slot.

I am particularly interested in joining Arnold Air Society. Is being a member of the AAS a good way to rank higher? I don't mean rank as in C/4C, I mean rank as in how I compare to other AS 100s.

What would you say the formula for a competitive pilot slot candidate is, as far as clubs involved in? I don't think I will have a problem with the other 50% of the pie, so I am mainly concerned about how to make myself stand out to the commander. Thanks for reading if you made it this far, and I appreciate your help.

[Whitman]

AAS will help you a lot. Our Member Candidate Season prepares candidates for FT and helps them stand out in the Cadet Corps. Aside from that AAS carries strong political implications. At my detachment the majority of the wing commanders and group commanders are Arnold Air. Networking also goes a long way too. You get to know people and they get to know you. Bottom line: it will help you but you have to weigh out the pros and cons.

[Hacker]

Originally posted by wnanna:

AAS will help you a lot. Our Member Candidate Season prepares candidates for FT and helps them stand out in the Cadet Corps.

What types of things does your AAS pledge program do to prep a cadet for FT?

[Guest Birdie]

We have our own PT anywhere from 0200 and 1000, which I hear is extremely challenging. We have to get all of the active members' signatures. We also need to pass a written test, on what I'm not sure, and memorize something (I forgot what). Basically, I hear it is intense military and leadership training, I have talked to some actives and they say they can't tell me anything more than that. It sounds like fun, though!

[Guest Birdie]

Oh yeah, so would you say that AAS is enough involvement, or should I try to get on some other ROTC club-type thing if I have time to be more competitive? Thanks.

[Whitman]

Hacker, we train the member candidates 3 mornings a week. We put them under pressure and assign positions such as fc, deputy, stando, safety, guidon to the candidate flight. We teach them road guard procedures, how to march a flight. It also helps build their confidence so when they get to FT they aren't afraid to be FC. Also, they are responsible for all the FT warrior knowledge. We quiz them religiously at nightly meetings and verbally in the mornings. Pledging AAS was by far the best FT prep I have ever received. They have to pass a warrior knowledge test and a written national test. Also there are 2 mandatory briefings required. Birdie- I pledged Pershing Rifles too. I'd say AAS is plenty though. Although PR's is much more exciting. No offense but I'll choose a 21-gun salute any day over highway cleanup

[flynhigh]

Getting involved in AAS is a good way to get exposure within your Corps. Since your PAS recommendation is 50% of your pilot selection score, getting involved in AAS is a great way to take that extra step and show what a great leader you are. Don't just join to get the blue and gold fourragere because your PAS will see right through that, but join to gain leadership experience. That is the most important thing anyway since you're trying to become an officer in the USAF, not just a pilot.

[Guest Mave1Rick3]

Basically get involved and do as much as you can. The more work you put into AAS, the more it will reflect when you go to FT. Alot of the things that made me do well at FT i learned in AAS.

[Guest hockeymv]

I don't know how difficult slots are to come by now, but back when I got mine (March '02.. and I'm still in UPT now) I was a member of AAS and did my job in the wing. Big thing was grades in my det. Without grades, your CC can't do anything for you. That's your #1 priority. Also, be willing to help out and support your unit in any way possible, while still meeting your other obligations. If you are a det rat with a 2.0, I can gurantee you the guy with the 3.5 and just a few ROTC extra curriculars is going to wax you at that board. This seems like common sense, but it's amazing how many underclass cadets don't see it. Yes, CC's rank is the most important thing, and they love good grades. Everything else just makes a strong application stronger.

Best of luck

[Guest FSUwarthogdriver]

Arnold Air Society will not make you a good cadet. Good cadets joing AAS. If you have any questions about AAS, go up to the membership, either C/Lowe or C/Mcqueen, since they are the senior leadership down there and ask questions. I know they do a bangup job down there and so if you have any questions about how Arnold Air will influence your career then find out from them. Dont just plan on using AAS because AAS will take a lot out of you, so be forwarned about that. If you feel you are going to be squared away enough you do not need to do AAS because I know a lot of people who DONT do AAS and still get picked up for pilot. So look at yourself first before you blind yourself into thinking what the fourrgere will do for you

[Bergman]

Guess it depends on what Det you graduated from.

IMHO, AAS=

Unless of course you like drinking 1 or 2 well iced-down wine coolers and discussing the merits of hooking up with all the 'hot' AAS chicks at NATCON.

In all seriousness, if it's something you want to do...knock yourself out. Joining will not help you get a pilot slot directly, but may improve your 'cadetmanship' in general, i.e. PT scores, general knowledge, AF knowledge. DO NOT sacrifice your grades for membership in AAS or any other ROTC organization! Your GPA will help you way more than membership in any clubs.

[Guest Birdie]

Thanks for your help. I have taken some hits to my grades, but I know I can manage to pull them back up. Plus, I've made it this far so I really don't want to give up.

I have heard of the drinking that goes on. That's too bad.

I'm at Det 028 (AAS Steven M. Scherp Squadron). Apparently we have won the LBJ cup for best-training program three years in a row. Sadly, my candidate class is doing a terrible job according to many here, so some of you other squadrons might have a chance at it.

Anyway, thanks for all of your advice. I feel pretty good about that pilot slot so far.

[Guest NoseArtGal]

I did AAS as a cadet. We had a pretty fun pledge program and I thought it would matter. Actually, though, after making it in...I didn't go to any meetings or have any involvement for the rest of ROTC because AAS just seemed to invent suspenses for stuff that didn't matter out of thin air. Imaginary suspenses just didn't motivate me much. But the pledge program was fun! I got a pilot slot by the way.

The Pilot Slot Stats database at https://www.######.com/Default.aspx?tabid=238 shows that 38% of guys that got pilot slots were AAS members. And for this last year, only a third of the guys were AAS members. Granted there are only 13 reported users so far and this may change as guys enter more info and the data becomes more accurate becauase right now it's not reliable.

As far as what the CC thinks about you... If you do well on the stuff that really matters (GPA, AFOQT, Flying Hours and at least being able to pass the PFT) you'll impress the commander quite a bit (assuming you're not the kind of person people hate upon contact). I think having solid numbers and being a laid back person is better than having solid numbers and then trying really hard to "make an impression" on the commander. Because that can go either way and probably isn't needed as long as you have solid numbers. The thing the CC will look at by far is our numbers. If he sees your numbers and doesn't know anything about you...and your numbers are good....excellent! The only time I think you need to worry about impressing him is if the pilot slots start to dry up. But membership in AAS won't hurt you and should help you a little bit. But expect a time demand. Actually, now that I think about it, I did go to an ARCON. We drank by the pool the entire time and didn't go to a single meeting except the required dinner. Fun fun.

[Guest skipro101]

I am a senoir majoring in Aeronautics. I have been working towards, and in tend to join the Air National Guard as a pilot....

I was thinking about ways to get contacts and get involved and heard about the Arnold Air Society. My question, is: Can I join the Airnold Air Society without being in the AFROTC (or any other military branch, for that matter)? And, if I can, do you think it would look weird? Has anyone ever done this?

I mean, being on the outside and looking in, I think it would be a great way to learn about the Air Force (the ANG's big brother) and also let the ANG know how serious I am, and also get some good contacts and Letters of Refrence for when I apply...

Thoughts?

[Guest NoseArtGal]

Interesting question. I'm not sure but I think you have to be in ROTC in order to join AAS (even if that's just taking an ROTC class without going on contract). I think for people that are not in ROTC that want to get involved, some Dets have a Silver Wings organization. All the organizations are different depending on your school. I'm not sure how helpful AAS or Silver Wings would be in getting letters of recommendation but it couldn't hurt. Even if it looked weird to the cadets in ROTC to see you in the organization...it's not like they're going to be able to negatively affect your quest for a Guard slot in all likelihood.

I think the "traditional" view of Silver Wings is that it's like a cadet version of the "Officer's Wives Club" - a place where significant others can get involved. I know this isn't an absolute though. You might just want to check with somebody in these groups at your school.

[Bishop]

I'm not fully versed on intricacies, however to my knowledge AAS is strictly AFROTC cadets. I would suggest you look into Silverwings. Silverwings is the Civilian sister organization. They do lots of stuff seperate as well as in conjunction with AAS. Being Silverwings you are also invited to the NATCON and ARCON meetings and youll have just as much fun. I am not totally sure if youll get the type of contacts you are seeking throuhg AAS anyway, but you might want to check it out. The major downfall is that not every AAS unit has its own Silverwings, and they dont function stand alone so, good luck to you, I hope I have helped answer your question.

Edit: NOSE ART GAL BEAT ME TO IT!!

[ 01. December 2004, 16:43: Message edited by: Bishop ]

[HerkDerka]

Can you join AAS without being a cadet? No.

However, you can be a civie and join Silver Wings. There are plenty of dudes involved with that organization. It's basically a support organization for AAS. Only downside is alot of cadet's girlfriends are silver wings so you might get a rep.

HD

[Guest RaptorwannaB]

The Arnold Air Society also works with the Air Force Association and I believe all people are able to join. They work to support and promote the Air Force and I'm sure you could learn a lot that way.

[Bergman]

Originally posted by skipro101:

My question, is: Can I join the Airnold Air Society without being in the AFROTC (or any other military branch, for that matter)? And, if I can, do you think it would look weird? Has anyone ever done this?

Why would you want to?!? The chances of your average ANG pilot (the guys who sit on the selection boards!) knowing what AAS is are about 0%! Maybe other units are different, but in my unit I am the _only_ person who was ROTC...all the rest were AMS (80%) or USAFA grads, and thus don't know much about AAS.

[Guest flecth033]

Bergman - I hate to disagreee with you but I have to. They have a strong AAS tradition at the Academy and since most guard dudes are from the Academy they all know about AAS. Guard units are majority prior active duty pilots. That meaning they came from the Academy, ROTC, or OTS. With the majority of pilots coming from the Academy or ROTC they know about AAS. How can 80% of the pilots in your unit come from AMS when units only select one to two pilot candidates at the most a year for UPT slots ? AAS is only given through ROTC or the Academy, however you can become an honoray member but that is if you contribute a lot of time and effort to the society. If you want to get involved as a civilan, think about joining the Civil Air Patrol as a Senior member. Silverwings is cool, but like Herc said, it is a group that is made up of girlfriends that back up the Arnies. Most Dets only have a few non cadets members as a Silver Wings. The only reason why I post this is because I am an Arnie, I have friends that are Arnies at the Academy, and I know Arnies that are 16 guard dudes from the Academy.

[Bergman]

Originally posted by flyguy:

How can 80% of the pilots in your unit come from AMS when units only select one to two pilot candidates at the most a year for UPT slots ?

Because most units hire from within or hire civilians "off the street"! If they give out 2 UPT slots per year, both of those are going to AMS for commissioning. Like I said, this is just my unit...others may vary, but out of 40 pilots we have 5 academy and 1 ROTC with the rest being AMS grads.

I stand by my point that if you're looking for a way to "appear involved" with the Air Force when applying for an ANG/AFRES slot, there are better/more visible ways to do it than AAS. AAS won't hurt your chances, but if you're fooling around with that rather than working on good grades, or full participation in an ANG unit (if you're already enlisted in one), then you're heading in the wrong direction, IMHO.

[Guest flecth033]

Bergman, I guess you would know more about your unit than I, so I stand corrected. It really must be one of the only units made up of that many AMS grads. I have some questions for you because this is interesting. Does your unit not attract dudes coming off active duty for part time slots ? Because if you guys only have 5 guys with prior active service there doesn't seem like there is much experience there.I know you have your active time where you have to get mission ready but that's what, 250 hours of flight time, and then most go part time after that. 1-2 UPT slots a year = pilot training for 2 years for both pilots, then mission ready for 1.5 years. It seems that you would have young pilots teaching young pilots for thier mission ready time because without guys coming off active duty the turn around time is small. Wouldn't that put you guys behind experience wise, since most units have guys that flew active for 10 plus years and then went guard, compared to majority of a unit going active 2 years then going part time ? Plus, you probably keep 1-5 pilots active at a time. The only way I ask this is because I talked to a friend who is a viper driver at the base up here, and he said it's unheard of for a unit to have so many unexperienced dudes flying. Hire from the streets and within, yes, only have 5 of 40 dudes who flew active first, weird.That is why I was wanting to know if your unit tries to attract guys coming off active or not. Let it be clear, I am not trying to be nusiance about this, because like I said, you know your unit and I don't, so I don't question your knowledge. I'm really just interested in how you guys get your experience compared to to other groups.

Fletch Out !

[Guest flecth033]

I take it back, I have retract the statemeent of young guys teaching young guys because obviously if there dudes who have been there for awhile, they would be able to teach. Quick question, what unit do you fly with ?

[Bergman]

The fact that someone went to AMS doesn't necessarily mean they are an inexperience pilot! One of our AMS grads _FLEW F-100's_ in the 70's and is STILL FLYING! Overall, our "average" pilot has 2000+ flying hours!

Granted, our unit is a little unusual in that we just converted from F-16s to KC-135s. Most of our guys were A-7 then F-16 guys for the past 20 years, so they have little -135 experience but tons of fighter hours. Of our 5 academy guys, 2 were former AD fighter guys and the other 3 were active duty -135 IP/EPs who are teaching everyone how to fly the tank. We also have another IP/EP who is an ROTC guy, and one active duty liason IP.

I still think your line of thought on this is a bit off. It's not like every ANG unit replaces all their pilots every other year with folks from active duty. From what I've seen, the turnover is pretty slow in ANG units. A unit may take 1 or 2 active duty people per year. Compare that with 1 or 2 UPT guys (who go to AMS) and the ratio of incoming 'new guys' is 50/50. Most units have a quota of how many pilots they need, so it's not like whenever an active duty pilot calls up they just join the unit. They have to interview for an available slot (not in the same group as the UPT people).

Again, this is just my perspective from my unit and the other 2-3 I have flown with. I am sure you can find units who have 80% former active duty pilots, but I would think most ANG units try to avoid that because it "poisons" the unit with AD mindset (which isn't always a bad thing). Believe it or not, some units would sacrifice experience in order to bring a 'guard baby' up through the ranks.

[Ryder1587]

Ive seen some stuff about AAS and know its the honorary AFROTC club or whatever but was just wondering what exactly AAS is and what activities do they do?