Arnold Air Society (AAS)

[Guest Rockhound]

Out of the 7 that went for slots my year 5 got pilot, 1 nav, 1 ABM. Of those 1 (pilot) was AAS, I was never in AAS either. Of the 7 that went for slots this year at Det 055, 4 Pilot (2 AAS), 3 Nav (2 AAS). Some commanders factor AAS into their ranking others dont. That is the only area where AAS COULD matter.

[Right Seat Driver]

AAS/SW has little to no bearing on Pilot/Nav/ABM. If someone says it does, be careful, there is a lot more to getting Pilot/Nav/ABM than being an Arnie.

[osulax05]

At OSU, I'd say less than 10% of the pilot/nav/abm types are arnies. AAS at our det for the most part has gone down hill since I got there. From what I hear, it used to be full of high speed types but that is def not the case now. The drill team is where it's at at OSU

Agree with what's been said above, AAS may have an indirect positive effect on getting a pilot slot but def not a direct help.

Go Bucks!

[Wolf424]

At Det 172, Valdosta State, I'd say in the 4 years ive been here, about 90% of rated guys are Arnies. However, that has more to do with higher commanders rankings than being a member (which has no bearing whatsoever). On the other hand, being in AAS is just another activity that the PAS can look at when determining commanders rankings.

[Guest Gumps]

AAS is a crock of poo at the schools I have attended. Get the facts, UPT is based on your Order of Merit or OM. That is a number and it's calculated like this:

Think of the OM as a pie split into 5 pieces. The pieces are split like this:

GPA=15%

PFT=10%

Field Training score out of ten=10%

PCSM=15%

Commander's Rating=50%

Someone quality check the percentages, but that's the ballpark figures. Bottomline, AAS isn't in there directly. Some people say its a factor in the CC rating, but I say that's bullshit. An example, the Det CC I had couldn't stand AAS, because where I went to school, it was full of a bunch of tool bags who liked to yell at other people. AAS "pledging" tended to lower GPA's as well.

If I was a new cadet, I'd focus on having high grades, a great PFT, and it'll be hard from there for a CC to rate you poorly.

[Gravedigger]

If your AAS squadron sucks, it probably doesn't matter. If it seems like every cadet in your det that gets a pilot slot is in AAS, there might be a correlation. AAS is so vastly different across Dets that outside opinions on this matter are worthless.

[HerkDerka]

Ok, enough rearguing semantics here.

The correlation between pilot slots and AAS changes between every ROTC detachment. Getting a pilot slot in ROTC depends on your OM. Your OM is 50% commander's ranking. Generaly, cadets who are heavily involved in ROTC are generally also involved in AAS. Most commanders like cadets who are involved.

You do not have to be in AAS to get a pilot slot. Quit worrying about what's fair. ROTC is a game, play it.

1) Get your degree

2) Get your bars

3) Get your slot

4) Get out

HD

Edited March 31, 2007 by HerkDerka

[Guest j.e.]

Arnold Air Society units are squadrons, which is what he is talking about...not his Det...

Cheers! M2

exactly, and ETE is extended training exercise. its a all night long thing were you do simulated missions and tactical stuff (play army)

[Guest PBruton]

We go full CTA style for the duration of candidate class. We never have them do PD, but we'll do "motivational" PT when they screw around. The whole class and all the CTOs do the PT together. It's a good work out. Our ETEs are freakin cool too. Last class we set up a whole scenario where the candidates became a "spec ops" team and had to rescue a downed pilot behind enemy lines. It included about 3 miles of overland navigation at night in semi-mountainous terrain. The active members played the OPFOR. We taught the candidates the stuff they needed to know to get through it, from land nav to survival to small unit tactics. It was fun as hell. The best part was the drive up the mountain (heavily rutted dirt road) in 4x4s. The poor candidates were blindfolded the whole way up.

I know this one is old, but I've seen a lot similar to this.

We need to make sure for us current Arnies that we don't talk like this d-bag up here who is on a power trip. This is the kind of person who General Flowers looked at when he tried to get rid of CTAs at Field Training. That's giving a bad name to AAS and CTAs. I was a CTO and a CTA and wouldn't ever say "We go full CTA style for the duration of the candidate class." If you need to tell people how cool you are for yelling, something's not right. Part of the value of Candidacy is not knowing what to expect - just like at FT, so let's keep it that way and be general enough so if potential candidates read these threads, they have only enough info to get excited enough to try it out.

Don't get me wrong, I joined as a 250 and the main reason I'm about to go to ENJJPT is because of AAS (opinion). I just want to see to it that people get the most out of this valuable resource and others don't spoil that for them.

Keep up the bad-ass work in your SQ!

[Guest AasClown]

If you're going to join AAS, do it because you want to better yourself and your community, not because you think it'll help your chances at getting a pilot slot. Going through the AAS candidacy process was a very rewarding experience that taught me SO MUCH about the Air Force and gave me a better understanding and appreciation of what I'm getting into.

If you think that being in AAS HAPPENS improve your chances for pilot, then so be it. But don't just join because you think AAS = Pilot. It doesn't.

Bottom line: Don't be a box-checker.

Edited January 31, 2009 by AasClown

[Guest 6strings]

I'm New here as well as to AFROTC. I haven't even started yet but i will be starting this upcoming fall and joining as an as200. I understand that leaves me a year behind everyone else when it comes to Commander's Ranking as well as 2 more semesters to get noticed.

To be honest, I'm very excited to get started and it almost has me wanting to go back to school. I do want to get noticed by fellow cadre and my commander. I am taking up an engineering degree so studying will take up a lot of my time. I will also be working 8 hour shifts fridays and every other weekend. I want to join something that I'll enjoy and something that will truly help me towards me getting picked up for a pilot slot.

Im just hoping someone could elaborate on the two organizations, what its all about, what they do, how time consuming, how much fun, etc. and which will help me out more if you guys have personal experience with that.

Thank-you.

[Wolf424]

It depends on the detachment. AAS was really lame at some dets when I was in ROTC. Our det did a lot of cool sh!t that kind of bent AAS rules, but it was much more fun that way.

[silverwolf0911]

AAS and drill teams vary greatly from det to det. So it really depends a lot!

Hopefully you get a chance to attend some kind of freshmen orientation where you can meet a bunch of cadets. Look at the senior cadet leadership of the particular det you're going to. Ask around. See what the "successful" cadets are involved with. That is not all answering but hopefully it points you in the direction of success.

At my school, AAS was the kickass way of doing things. It gave a chance for GMC cadets (freshmen/sophomore level) to have more hands on leadership and to have projects to do with their name on it. It's hard to do that without an extracurricular org to provide that medium since POCs do most of the leading for the cadet wing.

I'm in both AAS and honor guard at my det. I've realized that AAS has more projects that require leadership. Honor guard has lots of drill competitions and events to attend. But I've learned more about leadership and people skills from my AAS experiences.

Also, AAS is a national organization. So being an active member allows you to attend area and national conclaves. It's a great way to network and meet cadets (and if you're lucky some of the officer brass in AFROTC.. for ex, I was able to coin Gen Schwartz at the last NATCON. In hindsight, it was probably a dumb move, but I got to talk to the man for several minutes a couple of times). The networking was useful for me when I went to FT and already knew some of my flight/squadron-mates (and some CTAs).

Being national, there's lots of other random positions (area and national level) that you can hold. I'm not too much of a fan of the bureaucracy that AAS can become when you go to the area and national levels. But it could be impressive to some people on paper and your resume. That's really up to you and your cadre.

Sorry, I'm more biased toward AAS since that's where I'm more active with and more involved with. Feel free to PM me specific questions. I know some schools so if you tell me which school you attend, I might be able to tell you if the AAS unit there is good for you or not.

[HerkDerka]

I want to join something that I'll enjoy and something that will truly help me towards me getting picked up for a pilot slot.

Grades - First

Flying Time - Second

PT - Third

ROTC clubs - Fourth

That's the formula.

HD

[Bronco130]

Grades - First

Flying Time - Second

PT - Third

ROTC clubs - Fourth

That's the formula.

HD

Not sure I agree.

1) Getting shit done and playing/winning the ROTC 'game' (CC ranking is 50% of your OM)

2) Academics (top of our class had mediocre gpa's)

3) PT

4) ROTC clubs

5) Flying time (why pay for time when the AF will pay for ya)

[Guest AirForceZip]

Grades - First

Flying Time - Second

PT - Third

ROTC clubs - Fourth

That's the formula.

HD

I would switch flying time and PT. PT is just so easy to max if you put in the time, and thats 10 points on your OM right there.

Just take it easy your first semester; see what you can handle first. You have plenty of time to make your impression. Also, coming from the engineering side of things, your time commitment increases every semester sometimes a considerable amount.

[R-Dub]

...1) Getting shit done and playing/winning the ROTC 'game' (CC ranking is 50% of your OM)...5) Flying time (why pay for time when the AF will pay for ya)...

The reason you're wrong here is that CC ranking really isn't worth 50% of your OM...look up the actual formula for calculating OM and you'll see that it's only variable among 25 pts...you get 25 points guaranteed, as long as you're the infinitieth cadet out of a pool of infinity cadets. In reality, you're almost ALWAYS guaranteed to get around 35 pts. on your OM just for showing up and making it to your junior year in ROTC while applying for a pilot slot. Do anything significant, and you've already made it to 38-40. Piece of puss. And then you follow it up with a lame excuse about flight time...it's hard to get the USAF to pay for flight time if you don't get a pilot slot. If you don't get any flying time, you're PCSM is REALLY going to take a hit. Get some flight time under your belt and you're going to do just fine with your PCSM, making your chance for a pilot slot that much better. It doesn't take much flight time to get some easy points.

I would switch flying time and PT. PT is just so easy to max if you put in the time, and thats 10 points on your OM right there.

The difference between a maxed out PT score and a barely passing PT score on OM is 2.5 points. Wow...that's REALLY something...seriously though, take the time to PT because you HAVE the time and the self-respect to not be a fat-ass. If you're lucky enough to get into a fighter squadron, you'll see how difficult it is to make the time to get adequate work-out time.

Grades - First

Flying Time - Second

PT - Third

ROTC clubs - Fourth

That's the formula.

HD

I would say this is pretty accurate. Pass your classes, have fun, chase girls, figure out whether or not you enjoy flying BEFORE you get to pilot training, and take advantage of the only time in your life that you're old enough to get into trouble and young enough to get away with it!

[Duck]

R-Dub has it right. If you take care of things in that order it shows the cadre that, you want to fly, you have the academic aptitude to fly and that you are willing to put forth the money to fly. Then you do what you need to do in ROTC and you end up having a good commander's ranking. Don't sacrifice grades for your face time.

[Guest Toner]

Not sure I agree.

1) Getting shit done and playing/winning the ROTC 'game' (CC ranking is 50% of your OM)

Had a guy in our Det that thought this was #1. The COC loved him...and he was favored by the CC. He failed some classes and was really strugglin. He had a really hard major and was VERY involved in Arnold Air. We got a new COC and CC his Jr. year...and he continued to struggle academically, and he ended up having his Pilot slot taken away...and never commissioned. He was a great guy...and a hard worker...but I think he just had his priorities a little mixed up.

[speedy782]

There is no set formula as it is different for everyone. I'd say be yourself and do those things that interest you b/c you will do better if you enjoy it. My grades stunk and I did no extracurricular ROTC activities. However, I showed up on time to all of the mandatory activities and gave them 100%, which led to a higher commander's ranking. I did well on the PFT to make up for grades. I was one of the few that commissioned that did not do AAS and I did fine at field training and got a pilot slot. If you are worried about DG in ROTC, you'll have to do all of the extra stuff (AAS, drill team, etc.), but in my case those extra activities did not factor into getting a pilot slot. Each person has to do ROTC their own way. Just curious from the previous posts, does "PT" stand for party time?:)

[Right Seat Driver]

There is no set formula as it is different for everyone. I'd say be yourself and do those things that interest you b/c you will do better if you enjoy it. My grades stunk and I did no extracurricular ROTC activities. However, I showed up on time to all of the mandatory activities and gave them 100%, which led to a higher commander's ranking. I did well on the PFT to make up for grades. I was one of the few that commissioned that did not do AAS and I did fine at field training and got a pilot slot. If you are worried about DG in ROTC, you'll have to do all of the extra stuff (AAS, drill team, etc.), but in my case those extra activities did not factor into getting a pilot slot. Each person has to do ROTC their own way. Just curious from the previous posts, does "PT" stand for party time?:)

Or you can just disregard "worrying about" DGing out of ROTC and bust your ass to get what you want without trying to fvck over your bros. I would rather do good in ROTC and have a great time doing it as opposed to DGing and not having any friends the entire time and having the reputation as being that guy as a new 2d Lt. Believe me, it will follow you onto Active Duty.

[Guest Scoots]

To look at this from another angle - What, if any, negative consequences come from dropping out of AAS? It seems that there is a division of folks who think AAS will help with your commander's ranking while others think it doesn't mean jack. What about realizing that AAS may mess with priority #1, grades, and dropping out during your candidate semester? Do you think you are likely looked at as a quitter, or once again does it not mean jack? Thanks

[magnetfreezer]

To look at this from another angle - What, if any, negative consequences come from dropping out of AAS? It seems that there is a division of folks who think AAS will help with your commander's ranking while others think it doesn't mean jack. What about realizing that AAS may mess with priority #1, grades, and dropping out during your candidate semester? Do you think you are likely looked at as a quitter, or once again does it not mean jack? Thanks

Knew plenty of non-AAS guys (including myself) who got flight slots, even some who quit the candidate process. Knew AAS people who ran into the grades problem, etc and had to drop the program. Haven't read the AFROTC AFIs in 6-9 years, but I'd be willing to bet the only requirements to commission are along the lines of security, grades, medical, etc. Sure, AAS can help if you do XYZ job in it, get noticed as a hard worker, etc. Any other job will do just as well, including the guy who hardly participated in any non-mandatory activities since he was commuting, working, and studying so much. Guess what? The commander noticed he was keeping his grades up and using good priorities/time management and he ended up with a pilot slot. Bottom line, if it's a choice between AAS or possibly not commissioning, there's no question. Beyond that, you'll have to feel out your commander (sts) and see if he's the reasonable type (hopefully) or if he is hardcore about being an AAS/ROTC nerd ( disclaimer to any cool AAS members).

[-Roll-]

Knew plenty of non-AAS guys (including myself) who got flight slots, even some who quit the candidate process. Knew AAS people who ran into the grades problem, etc and had to drop the program. Haven't read the AFROTC AFIs in 6-9 years, but I'd be willing to bet the only requirements to commission are along the lines of security, grades, medical, etc. Sure, AAS can help if you do XYZ job in it, get noticed as a hard worker, etc. Any other job will do just as well, including the guy who hardly participated in any non-mandatory activities since he was commuting, working, and studying so much. Guess what? The commander noticed he was keeping his grades up and using good priorities/time management and he ended up with a pilot slot. Bottom line, if it's a choice between AAS or possibly not commissioning, there's no question. Beyond that, you'll have to feel out your commander (sts) and see if he's the reasonable type (hopefully) or if he is hardcore about being an AAS/ROTC nerd ( disclaimer to any cool AAS members).

2

I made it through AAS training, stayed in for a year and realized the majority of the program IMHO was gay.. Most the people at my det who got pilot slots were non-AAS, because they focused on the important things. Most of the arnie dudes had their grades suffer because of all their involvement.

I know a lot of dudes who are in AAS who are good guys, but don't feel pressured to join the frat.

Just keep your grades up, don't stab your bros in the back, and keep your image pretty clean. You'll be fine.

[Guest cadetd]

I joined ROTC the second semester of my freshman year. I slipped up with my grades last semester (2.9) and am worried about getting a FT slot because they aren't easy to get anymore. I was wondering if joining AAS would increase my chances of getting a FT slot?