General AF Reserve info

[Guest chaw]

After SUPT

I was recently asked some questions about the Reserves (Post SUPT) and I didn't know the answers. Can someone fill me in?

1. How does one support themselves and family (if applicable) when one finishes UPT? Do you just try your best to find a job where you can leave for days at a time with no recourse?

2. When you graduate SUPT and it's time to move back to your hiring unit (or whereever), do you get reimbursed for the move or are you S.O.L.?

I'm actually curious about the whole process of what happens after SUPT and how one manages to continue putting food on the table. What happens to your spouse?

[Guest AirGuardian]

In various order as it comes to mind!

#2. If you PCS'd to SUPT, you will be taken care of by the TMO office. I usually "Do it yourelf"(DITY) moves everywhere I go - hard work and some pain involved, but you can track your own goods(take care of them) and put some cash in your pocket if your good at it! Never earned less than a $1K so far and as high as $2.5K before. It's a good thing for me... Different for others who'd rather have them pack and ship for you! Either way, expenses, shipping to your Final destination are included...

#1 Best but toughest scenario to have is be given a full-time position. Enuff said on that one since those are hard to get right off the bat. Units are different across the norm and how they fill these postions.

- After UPT, you will have to qualify in your aircraft as well as go to SERE and don't forget to ask about seasoning days(full-time pay alloted for your initial learning of the aircraft) which are normally, 45, 90, etc. depending on the aircraft.

- Units have man-days, days which they can allocate you for jobs/tasks they want you to accomplish in-house. It varies, a few days at time or sometimes months. Check into a temporary technician slot if they're available...

- As far as civilian jobs go, we have guys running automotive window glass shops, auto-mechanics, a few accountants, WG CC was a Stock Broker at one time, most are airline guys, but it is tough to find flexible jobs out there if you have no prior experience in them. Most employers understand and make considerations for the 2 weeks a year alloted and some extra days, but it will be tough. Some HQ's if you're near one, hire guys for a few months at a time to work side work for them... You could flt instruct if hold the certificate. It's all a puzzle which most of us the slap together on a monthly basis if you don't have a full-time position. Tough, but flexibility is nice sometimes... Good luck!

***What happens to your spouse?

She goes to work!!! Just kidding if you are able to manage the job opportunities in the Guard and outside of it; otherwise, it won't be a joke unfortunately...

[Guest AirGuardian]

One last note for all PCS'ing around the country. Make sure you get your allocated(per rank)DLA or dislocation allowance. Money given to you for your transition into new living accomodations. It's a good chunk of money. Guard gets this as well with the new changes. Changes are: You don't need to have been PCS'd before and be eligible only for the 2nd,3rd, 4th, etc... First time is a given now... Common sense finally.

[Buddy Spike]

If you get picked up by an AFRES unit, ask about becoming an ART (Air Reserve Technician). It's actually a GS job, but you're still flying regularly.

[PlanePhlyer]

I'm currently an E-5 in the Air National Guard and have less than 2 weeks of school left for my bachelors degree. I am going to be applying to my unit and others guards units as well. I would like to apply to the AF Reserve and was wondering how this process would evolve from start to OCS. Thanks for the info!!

[Guest What?]

I'm in the Reserves, I considered applying for a slot with a national guard unit and they mentioned to me that I would need to transfer to the guard unit before I could apply for the slot. I think it's the same the other way around, someone else might know more about this than me.

[Guest 21snuff]

A heads up about the guard units.

Some units only hire from within, so you would need to tranfer to the unit before applying. However, not all units are like this and some will hire people from right off the street. So not all units can be treated the same. It's best to contact each unit prospective unit individually to find out their specific app procedures.

[Carpetbagger]

You do not need to transfer anywhere to apply for any slot. As 21 said, many units will hire and promote from within rather than going outside the unit. It all depends on the unit. It has been my knowledge and experience that more guard units hire from "within" than reserve units. AFRC units must submit your name, if "sponsored," to a centralized hiring board before they are allowed to officially send you to UPT. There is no requirement to enlist in order to apply. If a unit can get you to enlist, then they own you whether or not you get to go to UPT. Since you are a prior service individual, which is greatly in your favor, this doesn't apply to you. If you are qualified, with good scores, many units will transcend traditional "unit boundaries" to submit your name for UPT. It all comes down to the interview. If they like you, you're in, if not, tough luck. Best bet is to narrow down all of the units you are willing to relocate to fly for, get great letters of recommendation from everyone you can, and send out as many applications as possible. Good luck!

[Guest dumaisj]

You can apply to the Reserve Board unsponsored as well...it's certainly toughter to get approved, but once you receive that go-ahead stamp, you can shop yourself around to various units. There are 3 A-10 Reserve units (2 in LA and one in MO), so this might appeal to you. It's tough to get selected by them through this manner, but it has been done. Once you've got that unsponsored slot, it's your responsibility to find yourself an unit. It is by no means a guaranteed ticket to UPT. The best part about it is that you have already been approved by HQ; if you find a unit that likes you, you're just a few forms away from UPT. You're just an easier sell to units; you're less of a risk and that can be a deciding factor. Look into it!

Even schoolhouses will send guys to UPT...Viper and Eagle units do it quite often (OR and OH for sure). If you score a slot with one, they'll send you to another unit until you've built approx. 500 hrs before they'll make you an IP. They want to make sure you're capable in the a/c before they let you teach.

Also, there is a cavaet to such a slot...you have NO CONTROL over the where you are sent for seasoning. For instance, if the 173rd in OR picked you up, they might send you to any of the Eagle Guard units post-UPT. After you've built up the necessary time, they'll bring you back to Klamath Falls to start the IP upgrade. A small price to pay for the fast-track to IP...

[Guest pilothoper]

Hello, had a question about how reserve boards work. I talked to a reserve unit and they said if they select me, they still need to submit my package to get approved by the AF Reserves....I thought after a unit hires you, that was it, you did not have to go through another board? If there is another board, what are the chances that they will reject you after the unit had selected me in the first place?

[Guest SnakeT38]

The board the unit is referring to is done twice a year by the AFRC. They are looking for reason's

why you WOULD NOT complete UPT. They have a pretty good feel for a package that won't make it, most of the times the units don't send someone they know can't finish but you never know.

[B-O-double-Z]

The AFRC board keeps the units "honest." Most of the packages which have already been vetted by the unit are rubber stamped at AFRC. I think it's a good idea to have another echelon above the unit look at the selections and give them a sanity check. It keeps the "good ol' boy" system in balance.

I've seen some really horrible selections when I was in the Guard that logically resulted in guys washing out and wasting the unit's UPT slot. I think it's especially prevalent with units that hire mainly from within. I'm not against hiring from within, but using UPT selection as the "crew chief of the month club" isn't smart either. To often, as soon as an enlisted guy in the unit gets his degree from "West Valley Community Vocational Junior College and Screen Door Repair", the units sends them off to UPT...and they fail.

The Reserve process is similar, but the AFRC board puts the stamp of approval on the picks.

[ 19. August 2005, 06:26: Message edited by: B-O-double-Z ]

[Guest txaggie_99]

PH, on another note you can get hooked up with a recruiter (you'll need a good one) and they can help you put together a package and go unsponsored. Though having a unit sponsorship would make it a "rubber stamp" process as BOZZ indicated, if you're reaching age critical as I was, it's another option. I'm in for the Oct board also...

[Guest Mizzouflyer]

I was picked for UPT in the March board, so I'll add a few things:

-Get your medical done: You'll need a FC1 physical done before AFRC will sign off on you. Your recruiter should be able to set you up for an appointment at the nearest AFB. You don't need to go to Brooks.

Also on medicals, it will likely take multiple trips to get done. I went to Seymour Johnson AFB five times before it was ready. Politely keep on the docs to make sure they've completed the paperwork.

-Get a recruiter, preferably an officer acessions recruiter. If you live in the southeast, PM me and I'll send you my recruiter's info. You'll still have to do most of the work, but they'll make sure all the paperwork gets into AFRC and such.

-Expect to wait 5-8 months after selection to start OTS, then 3 months after that for UPT. I was on the March board, found out I was selected in April, and my OTS date is in November. The younger you are the longer you'll wait.

If you have any other questions, PM me and I'll try to answer them.

[Guest pilothoper]

Thanks Mizzouflyer....I am an officer in Active Duty already though....and have my FC1 physical done. Do you have to pass MFS (at Brooks) before your package makes it to the AFRC board or is the only requirement the FC1 physical?

Is there an AFI/Checklist on all the things you need to put a package together for the AFRC UPT board?

I have the package I submitted for the Active Duty UPT board last year....didnt know if there was different requirements for the AFRC board though?

[Guest comanche]

No you don't have to pass Brooks before your package (sts) goes to the board, just your FC1. There is a list of documents somewhere, I think my recruiter gave it to me. Putting your package together is something a recruiter will have to help you with. I've been dealing with the paperwork for over 6 months now. Try to find a good recruiter!!!! I just missed a great one.

[hindsight2020]

Just to add my take on the process. I'm shooting to go for the September Board (I guess it's in October now) as unsponsored. The application process to meet a AFRC board is at least 6 months long. the recruiter will be the one to send you and compile all the forms as well as schedule the medical for you.

I'm non-prior civilian and I can tell you that they are doing things very differently now as it relates to the medicals. I was scheduled a Class III medical at a MEPS facility around May. After that came the big shuffle to get into the Brooks scheduling.

No longer are people being sent to local AFB's for either the FCI or the MFS. At least that was my experience. Once in Brooks you will complete a FCI/MFS which will take about 2 days if you aren't a PRK case. I don't know about the 're-visits' but I didn't need a re-test on anything, and I was formally released at the end of the second day of testing. The paperwork should take a month or so to process and it is good to stay in touch with the status of it. My recruiter originally had my travel plans scheduled for the whole week, which would have accounted for any re-testing that they would have required (it didn't in my case so I was able to expedite my return day); once again it seems to be a different way of doing things than what others may have experienced in the past.

Ditto on the sponsored package. If you're going to the board sponsored, it is for all practical purposes a rubber stamp affair. The only people doing any 'crossing-fingers' business will be me and the boat of unsponsored packages.

I just hope this board yields results similar to the board last March, but something tells me that people probably flooded this upcoming board by watching March's results...well I guess I should start the cross-finger business :D

[hindsight2020]

comanche,

I really don't know exactly how they are going about it. Everybody seems to have a different experience.

FWIW, when I was sent to Brooks, I was the only one there without a pilot slot. That raised a lot of eyebrows, which I thought was hilarious. There were about 14 ROTC people, all of whom had already been alloted a pilot slot. Some of them didn't pass certain tests so the fate of their pilot slot was in question as of the second day of testing (when I left).

Then there were two Reserve folks, a kid who is being sponsored by a Reserve heavy unit and then Johnny hole-in-my-pocket (yours truly). I really don't know if my case is standard procedure now or not, but I know I was cut invitational (civilian) orders to show my unsponsored a$$ at Brooks and complete both MFS and FCI, which took two formal days of tests. I didn't ask much about it, all I got out of the recruiter was a generic "That's how they're doing the medical thing now in the AFR..." referring to the way the medical-related timeline has gone since MEPS and beyond.

I'll venture to say that sponsored applicants may have different experiences since their unit will probably do all the scheduling and paperwork for them, so when I talked to the other AFRC guy while at Brooks he concurred (sp?) and told me his unit was doing all the stuff for him and here he is going thru Brooks in the same fashion as I'm going thru it. So as always, as it relates to military flying slots 'it f$ckin' depends', for good or bad.

I have no expectation of being sponsored by a unit before the board, it is clear there's no time for that now anyways. What I have felt from my communications with AFR units is that they are letting me 'ride' the board lone-wolf and if I come out on top then certain magic phone calls may start happening. One particular D.O. even used the term 'free agent' and 'off-the-shelf' during a phone conversation.

Convenient for them and nail-biting for me? Absolutely. But you know what? That still beats the "crewchief of the month" shenanigans with the Guard; at least with AFR Command they can hear my case and give me a shot. When/if the boss says I'm good enough, I do see some of the units I've been having a fairly amicable relationship (read: they have requested I inform them of the results of the board and my progress with the app package) extending possible offers.

--Hey BOZZ

I'm so glad a veteran said what you said, you hit the nail in the head brother! That's EXACTLY what my experience has been with the Guard for the past 2 years. I know I've had this discussion with AirGuardian before, and I still concede to him that for the most part Guard units are top-notch in their selection criteria, but my personal experience has been more along the lines of what you described. I have been witness to the complaint on the part of officers on these boards about applicants washing out of training, which floors me considering the tough time I've had getting interviews because peole are "just soo damn qualified"

And you're right, from my last two interviews their selections have been literally the 'in-house crew chief guy recently graduated from West Valley Community Vocational Junior College and Screen Door Repair'. So we'll see how the AFRC pans out for me...

[Guest mernest]

MDINC & Bozz-

I know I've added my 2 cents before regarding Guard units hiring from within and I will do it again now. First off, I'm a traditional guardsmen and have just been picked up by my F-16 unit. I've been in my unit about 4 1/2 years now, so I admit from the start that I hold some bias. I'm always amazed by non priors who complain about how unfair the Guard selection process is when it comes down to them vs. prior service folks. I guess if I was non-prior I would probably be complaining also. You have to put yourself in the shoes of those doing the hiring. If you have 2 guys who meet your hiring criteria, one who has been in the unit for several years and one who is non-prior, who would you hire? The guy who has already given the unit several years of dedicated service and has been recommended from within is the obvious choice. I don't view it as a "crew chief of the month club." To be picked up, one has to meet the hiring criteria. If someone can do that who also happens to be within the unit then more power to them. Being prior service shows a level of commitment and dedication that a non-prior guy can't touch. Your comments regarding prior service guys washing out of training in no way "hits the nail on the head" as it was put. Both prior and non prior service wash out of flight training...both also successfully complete flight training as well. You have to look at each person who washes out on an individual basis. To imply that someone who is already in the Guard competing for a pilot slot is less intellegent or capable than a non-prior guy is not only unfair but it is a slap in the face to all those who serve in the Guard. To also say that the "in-house crew chief guy recently graduated from West Valley Community Vocational Junior College and Screen Door Repair" is also unfair. I know many guard guys who are full time college students at some very impressive schools. My experience has been that most of them are highly intellegent and would blow a non-prior guy away when it comes to competing for a pilot slot. It has also been my experience that the prior service guys seem to have their stuff together a little bit more than the non-priors when it becomes interview time. I realize that this may not always be the case because each person competing for a pilot slot must be looked at individually. In my opinion, I don't think a prior service guy is better than a non-prior guy...vise versa. The reason is this...I have had the oppertunity to get to know many of the pilots in my unit, prior service and non-priors. You would never know, without asking, which one each pilot is. Each are great pilots and great officers. MDINC, to make a long story short...stop complaining about the process! If you are as SH#% hot as you say then you should be getting offered a spot from at least one of those interviews you've been on and would no longer have to "send apps like spam."

[B-O-double-Z]

ISU28,

I'd give your post more credence if you'd already successfully graduated from UPT. I wish you luck. I knew when I hit the "add reply" button it would only be a matter of time before someone would attempt to instruct me on the error of my ways.

I said in my post, I'm not against hiring from within. Being objective, I would give some advantage to a unit member. It would definitely be a tie breaker. But, it's the commander's obligation to send the best candidate. In addition to unit membership, a commander needs to consider the quality of one's education, previous flying experience, athletic participation and other extracurricular activities, work history, state affiliation, test scores, and recommendations. Meeting the minimum criteria and being in the unit does make you qualified, but not necessarily best qualified.

My post is not an indictment on unit enlisted members. If the best candidate happens to be an enlisted guy in the unit...shit hot. My post is an indictment of units which are too parochial or lazy to recruit and hire the best candidates available.

I've flown for 18 years, in the active duty, the Guard, and for the last five years in the Reserves. I'm familiar with the pilot selection process and I have some insight into what it takes to be successful in the career field into which you hope to matriculate.

If you are a solid candidate, you'll do fine. If not, you are going to have a rough road.

[Guest mernest]

Bozz-

By no means was I trying to instruct you on "the errors of your ways." I understand your background and respect it tremendously. I also realize that I haven't yet completed UPT...nor do I try to pretend that I have. I do however have military experience and have worked hands on with the engine that powers the plane I will be flying soon. I simply stated my opinion based on my experiences up to this point. I realaize that different Guard units have different hiring practices. I realize that some "units are too parochial or lazy to recruit and hire the best candidates available." I also realize that for many units that isn't the case. Many units, my unit included, go out of thier way to put the best interview process together as possible. Prior and non prior guys are on an equal playing field. In my case, my unit also picked up a non prior guy. He was shit hot and professional. He acted as if he was in the military...customs and courtesies etc. As a results, he'll be going off to UPT. As I said, I don't think prior service guys are any better than non prior, vise versa. I also said that each person has to be looked at individually. That is the only way to determine who is best qualified. What upsets me is when non prior guys continually take shots at prior service guys as an excuse for them not getting selected. There are plenty of qualified folks out there, prior and non prior service. Those who want to fly in the militarty, especially fighters, are a dime a dozen. Give me 1 hour and I could give you 100 people who want to sign on the dotted line to become a fighter pilot. The hiring practices of the Guard is what it is. If someone is trying hard and still not getting picked up then that person needs to look at themselves...not make excuses by blaming others.

[hindsight2020]

ISU28,

Dude, nice way of pointing the finger at me. I was expressing, just like you, MY experience. I didn't take an uncalled shot at anybody. You got your mouth slapped by a senior guy and are shifting gears on me because I haven't gotten a pilot slot yet and I'm an easier target to discredit with the military "got the T-shirt?" spiel.

I'm not making excuses for myself, you just got defensive about BOZZ's assertion that there are several units out there practicing 'crew chief of the month club' selection criteria and getting burned by it. Don't spin it like you're just NOW taking exception to my agreement with him as the whole reason you blew up.

See, here's what you fail to see, after all you did disclose your bias towards the experience of the prior enlisted candidate. The difference is that, in the game to select the next guy who'll wash out, odds are that the in-house guy will get selected. You said it yourself, in the event of a tie-breaker, the in-house guy will get the slot! We get it, search my previous posts and see what my position is on that, you'll realize that all I have always pointed out is the simple reality that you can't have the cake and eat it too. I don't discredit the priors as a group, but I won't blow sunshine about the practices just to help you not feel alluded to.

And what about the cake? Simple, you can't justify the pshycology behind picking an enlisted guy over a non-prior AND get chafed when the kid washes out and people raise the point that the non-prior could have made it. It's not a wash as you feel it is, the in-house had the edge in at least getting the chance. Simple. Does it happen in every unit? No. I never said so, neither did Bozz. Does it happen in several units? You betcha.

As for the personal shots you took at me, raising questions over my quality as an applicant, pffff.... I won't even dignify that tangent you took, besides, the difference between you and me is time buddy, mere time. If there is one thing I have learned in the process of seeking a pilot slot is patience and one hell of a callous skin.

The process is competitive, and the units do, for the most part, the best job they can to size up and gauge the interviewees, some do a better job than others. We certainly disagree in experience, and it's obvious why, but don't discredit one's experience just because it rubs you the wrong way.

[Guest TheBurt]

I agree with what BOZZ says that each UPT board has an obligation to send the best candidate. I have seen it both ways ie. selecting from within and off the street. I was off the street, however, many of you shotgun your applications to every guard/reserve unit in the country, and then have to convince each board why you are going to keep million dollar education they are fixin' to hand you in that unit. I have seen in-unit enlisted guys get selected and fall flat on their face, but a larger majority I've seen went and came back with every AETC trophy handed out at UPT/UNT. I've also seen quite a few "most qualified" candidates from another part of the country that finally found the guard/reserve unit that would hire them, go to UPT and come back, stay for a year or two, then transfer to a unit in their home state, or go to their airline job and quit participating

So who is the best candidate? Well maybe the guy that has been living in a tent beside mine in the desert for months on end, and when he's home works every night on the flight line while carrying a full load at a major university. Or is it the guy who's parents paid his way into a large aviation college and subsidized his living while he was getting his CFI, and shotguned his resume to every guard/reserve unit in the country who lives 1000 miles from the unit, who's gonna skip town when he gets his job flying a CRJ.

Truth is that there a lot of qualified people out there, it's up to the UPT board to see through the BS and hire the right people. I've seen far more success from the in-unit hires. BTW, the prior enlisted that we've sent to UPT/UNT all graduated from major 4 year universitys with degrees in engineering, accounting, law, biology etc, etc.

PS. having a screen name like My Daddy is Not Connected, implies that you have been unsuccessfull getting into a guard/reserve unit and think it's because the commanders son got the slot that you deserved. Well here's some advice (lose the screen name, the attitude and maybe some of us will give you some good advice on getting in). If you are really motivated consider A. enlisting B. getting an officers slot in another field to get into the door C. get pissed off at they guys that did. If your qualifications are so good without being enlisted, then you would have been picked up by now, I've noticed you on the board for a while, and this seems like a general theme.

[hindsight2020]

FWIW Burt, it only appears that I've been trying for 'a while' because I'm a high-visibility target with the screen name. You're probably right about it too, it gets me more hate mail than it probabbly helps, but how fun would it be if we were all to bow down and have

'bona_fide_c$ck_sucker_won't_disagree_with_you' for screen name, there would be no fighter pilots left! That aside, I don't go spewing off my political views on the process during the interview, feel free to imply that it shines through though, I can't appease the whole world. But a message board? come on, we can all get over that, hopefully.

I have no fear of sharing my experience, it's real and it's valuable to the extent that people are willing to put it in their bank of knowledge and move on. Constantly trying to discredit that experience is evidence that 1)you can't accept differing views or 2)people who elaborate on the particulars of their not-so-smooth sailing are de facto whiners and have no business being part of your flying organization. It's all perfectly fine, that's your prerrogative man.

The truth of the matter is that the amount of time I've been pursuing the slot is nowhere near extreme when compared to others in the same pursuit. Two years around the block is not that long a time by any stretch of the imagination. Several pilots I've had the opportunity to interact with at these meet-and-greets met the board from 2 to 3 consecutive times AND were prior enlisted. This is further evidence that my time in purgatory is rather small.

In addition, I have not applied to OTS, so my applications have been strictly to the Guard, at THAT, fighter units (with two exceptions), so that skews the experience.

Your take on the Guard selection process proves once again that we continue to go "missed approach" with generalizations. This has become an all-out d$ck-measuring contest to prove to one another that there are either MORE prior-enlisted who are SH than are crew 'chief of the month' or conversely, MORE non-priors that are SH than CRJ flyin', parent-subsidized, university flight program babies. Once again, 'mileage will vary'.

Like I told ISU, fight that urge to see red (perhaps the screen name ticks the sh%t out of you, I'll concede you that) and automatically discredit my experience because I spew it with dry sarcasm. The irony is, I usually spare you the semantics in person, and you have a point there, but Bozz's assessment IS true to whatever extent you feel comfortable with it.

With that in mind, we hopefully put this big ol' parenthesis to bed and steer the thread back to the Reserve discussion.

--AFRPilot

Your point is certainly consistent with what my recruiter's position was on the matter. Something as to the effects of a general change in procedures. Also, I don't believe MEPS facilities ever did issue FCI's but I may be wrong. I remember going down to MEPS *thinking* I was going for a Flight Class I to discover that I just completed a General Class III hehe.

[ 22. August 2005, 02:28: Message edited by: my_daddy_is_not_connected ]

[Guest comanche]

So am I going to be screwed for the Oct board? I went to my local base and got an IFC-1A, never went to Brooks or anything. From what it sounds like I will not be able to meet this board. Anyone that can send me a link to where AFRC says that I'd appreciate it.......I think I need to call my recruiter tomorrow.