Recreational Drug Use (Marijuana)

[Guest 15chief]

I'm currently an F-15 crew chief in the guard. When I enlisted 5 years ago I was honest about my prior drug use. My medical records state that I have used marajuana over 200 times. I was told that because my drug use had occured before the age of 17 it would not effect my enlistment. I'll be graduating in a year and hope to get an AD UPT slot. How will my prior drug use effect my selection?

"If it turns,burns,banks and rolls crew chiefs made it happen"

[BFM this]

Tough one: I really have no idea. Since this involves your medical record, you might bounce this off of Flight Doc or F16pilotMD in the Aviation Medicine forum.

The answer could be not a chance. Otherwise, how did your enlistment go and did you ever CC for anyone who now wears a star?...

[Guest AFRecruiter]

I am an Air Force recruiter and I have the regulation sitting in front of me. It states that "Any use over five times MAY be disqualifying. Officer applicants who have admitted to pre-service marijuana use will submit a handwritten eplanation with their application."

While I dont know your entire situation, I did notice that you said that you used it 10 years ago, and that you were 18/19 when it happened. That would make you 28 or 29? That would mean your age then becomes the biggest factor in offering you a pilot slot. You must be in UPT by age 30.

[Guest wingedfrog]

Hello, all! Can someone help me interpret the following provision from AFRCI 36-2002 regarding drug usage and eligibility for UPT consideration:

2. Ineligibility Factors. The following individuals are ineligible for UFT consideration:...

2.2. Officers who have illegally, wrongfully, or improperly experimented with, used, possessed, sold,

or transferred any narcotic substance, dangerous drug, intoxicating inhaled substance, or controlled

substance as established by Title 21, U.S.C. Section 812 when supported by evidence.

Does this mean that a civilian who has experimented with marijuana 3 times is not eligible for UFT consideration for AF Reserve/Guard? Or does this apply only to prior/current service Officers? Anyone else out there gotten a Guard/Reserve slot after disclosing prior experimentation?

Any help is appreciated!!

[Guest Wxpunk]

Certainly! The following regs...

2. Ineligibility Factors. The following individuals are ineligible for UFT consideration:...

2.2. Officers who have illegally, wrongfully, or improperly experimented with, used, possessed, sold,

or transferred any narcotic substance, dangerous drug, intoxicating inhaled substance, or controlled

substance as established by Title 21, U.S.C. Section 812 when supported by evidence.

...and

https://www.e-publishing.af.mil/pubfiles/af...frci36-2602.pdf

...have a summarized version: JUST SAY NO!

Thank you for your time.

---------------

Wxpunk

[Guest JimboNanon]

Let me start by saying this is waiverable (however not a true waiver in the ANG)...

If you have (tried|experimented|used|smoked but not inhaled|ect) any illegal drug the military does not want you as a rated officer (per AFRCI 36-2002). As you may guess this is surfacing more and more in the recruiting process today. The basic fact that almost 60% of all college students have used some type of illegal drug at some point in their life makes it all the more tangible.

My current situation is I have been offered a ANG pilot slot, my package was sent the National Guard bureau with proper documentation of my 2 drug experiences, and was denied. My unit tells me the Bureau is now tightening down on this reg and it now requires an "Exception to Policy Letter" from your Squadron and Wing Commander, and then approval from the Air Force. Said Letter has been drafted and submitted to the National Guard Bureau and I will follow up with the results of my 2.25 year saga (no other waivers

were necessary).

[ 07. October 2004, 13:50: Message edited by: Jimbo ]

[Guest Blackbird]

Hi guys, I have been thinking about applying to AFROTC for a long time. I have one major issue that might be a dealbreaker. When I was a little bit younger I was a bit of a knucklehead . To make a long story short I smoked marijuana approximately 25-30 times with the last time being in January of 2003. I know that this is more than "experimental" (I hate that word anyway). I was 20 at the time, and I am now 23.

Back then my school grades were half-a$$ed, and now I am doing great with a gpa of 3.9 over the past 61.5 credit hours I have taken. Basically I have been taking heavy course loads (19-21 credit hours per semester) while working full time, and working out 6 days a week (I am in good shape). I know that this does not excusee my prior mj usage, but I have really matured a lot since I have used. I had family issues back then but this is no excuse. I blame me and how out of wack my politcal views were back then (I was a liberal). Then when I started to think rationally I did a 180 in the way I think (now I am a conservative). Also please do not start a political discussion, this was not the reason that I typed this post.

My question is will I be able to get a mj waiver for smoking weed this amount of times? I know this is a high number (no pun intended).

If I am lucky enough to be forgiven (and I am aware that is a HUGE IF) will security clearances be an issue down the road?

Guys let me hear the gods honest truth, I don't need anything to be sugarcoated. Thank you for taking your time to read my post.

[Guest Blackbird]

#1, INTEGRITY. This is something that is very important in ones life, but you don't realize that till you have fully matured. I am doing great in school and I do not NEED the Air Force. Hell I am taking all the pre req.'s to medical school and will go that route if I have to. This is something that I want to do, but I do not want to base it off of a lie.

#2 Background checks for security clearance. I did not smoke by myself, I did it amongst friends. If I lie I can garantee that the AF will find out about it. Only the consequences are greater and I will not have my integrity.

[Guest mikedjp]

I actually got caught for possession of marijuana in 1997. I only used it between 10 and 15 times. In 2003 I applied for and was accepted to Masters program with the intention of joining ROTC for 2 years and getting a commission. This was after then OTS recruiter told me I didn't have a chance in hell with the criminal record/prior drug use. When I went to the ROTC detachment I had to fill out all the paperwork regarding prior drug use etc. I wrote out my detailed description of my enounter with weed, mind you this was 6 years after my last use, and applied for the waiver to join. The det. commander gave me the and told me that my use was more than expiremental and there was no place in the officer corps for me. But it's all on the det. cc's decision. If the detachment you want to join is like the one I tried to join, I don't think you have a chance if you are completely honest about it. I know I got burned for my integrity about it.

I ended up enlisting, busting my ass as an airman, and now I'm going to OTS with a Nav slot. I haven't been this stoked since well 1997. :cool: Maybe if I play my cards right I'll get a pilot slot in a few years.

[hindsight2020]

Devil's Advocate switch: *ON*

Unless you have a nagging feeling that it is likely that they will talk about you using it, or other relatives for that matter, I wouldn't disclose an event like that. You've learned a great lesson in the power of discretion, particularly of those things that can hurt other people's perception of you. Are all AF officers saints? Not by a long shot. Most didn't fully disclose all/any of their sh%t either. It's a matter of valuation. A guy killed a neighbor's goat (I need to sound biblical on this one), never got caught; you tripped on the carpet at a party and fell face first into a joint, but didn't inhale ;) . Point is you go tell the AF you "Yes I experimented with MJ, I am sorry, will not do it again " and my friend, the goat killer will be watching you sit on the bleachers on his T-37.

Not disclosing information that is part of your record is STUPID. Disclosing information where there are no legal means to hold up the claim against you (written afidavit, video, audio, hooker is vice.. oh sh%t wrong post..) is plain ol'NAIVE and WILL BITE YOU IN THE ASS but for a whole yet ironically sweet set of reasons.

Your cousin: Yo that dude smoked that sh%t every morning with his Oaties

The AF: Yo, you smoked that sh%t with your cousins?

You: No.

The AF: They said you did.

You: Can they prove it?

AF: No but it puts a question mark on your character.

You: You just talked to a couple of self-admitted MJ users, you believe them? Plus I submit they have an inherent desire to see me fail as they never "(put your reason here, doesn't matter, proving if it's right is not your burden, it's theirs)"

There ya go son, you won that argument, BUT!, all that won't happen if you save yourself the trouble and not disclose a marginal non-critical issue such as the MJ thing. Once again, if it was a real issue, your doping testing will reveal you for who you are. Otherwise, your naivetté will make it harder for you not only to get to where you want to go but also to reconcile the sudden discovery that 1) life isn't fair and 2) people with worse offenses enjoy the priviledges of being AF officers and pilots. Welcome to the world Johnny.

Devil's Advocate switch: _off

(Mr. Mackey's voice over): Drugs are bad m'kaay..

Seriously though, don't be freakin' stupid anymore, don't do sh%t where they can catch you red handed. Don't do drugs, use a condom for Christ's sake and don't become an alcoholic. Simple enough for ya? Good luck young one.

[brabus]

Well here's some food for thought...I know a guy who put down he never had. However, sophmore year (this was a few years ago) he decided to come clean and thought that since he was a good cadet, it'd be ok. HQ kicked him out. Even the Col thought it was BS and fought for him, but HQ just said since he'd done it more than X times, he was out. I'm pretty sure that it was more than 3 times, but not positive.

I'm not telling you what to do here, or what I would do...I'm just giving you a real scenario to think about. Take from this what you want.

On another note, you'll eventually have to get a secret and top secret security clearance in which you'll be asked this again on paper and in a personal interview. I bet it's pretty hard to bullshit the interview guys...they know what they're doing. Just something else to think about.

[ 29. March 2006, 17:27: Message edited by: brabus ]

[Guest Airtime]

Use your common sense. Would previous pot use a few years ago cause someone to not be able to properly fly an airplane or get to work on time?

I'm not telling you what to do, being honest is important, but if you used drugs in the past you don't want to come off like you were a heavy drug user. Youv'e grown up, matured and ready to be an officer and serve.

[Toro]

Originally posted by AirTime:

So if you happened to experiment it would NOT be wise to put it down on paper.

You are re-f***ing-tarded and this is the WRONG answer. Cessna, do a search on security clearance and you'll find a lot of good info. Primarily what you'll find is that the security clearance questions are looking to find whether you're trust worthy. Now, if you sat around and smoked pot of a Honey Bear container for weeks on end, you're probably not trustworthy. If you took the occassional toke of a bong in college and fess up to it as being a stupid, immature mistake -- you're probably okay.

If you lie and they find out you WILL NEVER GET A CLEARANCE. "But how would they ever find out?" you ask. They will talk to people you would never expect. On your clearance paperwork they will ask for names, addresses and phone numbers of your friends and all your past addresses. Then they will talk to your friends friends and your neighbors. I had a guy whose contact info I didn't even have give me a call and tell me that the investigators had called him.

This all is coming from a guy who smoked a little weed when he was young and dumb, admitted it on his paperwork, and has been in the Air Force for ten years now.

[Guest aaronbrann]

what if you were to smoke pot legally in a place such as amsterdam, or some other country.

[Toro]

What if you were to legally machete someone to death in Nairobi?

The question doesn't ask whether you did it somewhere legally, it asks if you've ever done it.

[Bishop]

I have a question somewhat similar in nature (similar enough not to make a new thread out of it)

Background: I was in AFROTC for a year my freshman year about 4-5 years ago (had to drop out for a bit because of finances) will be rejoining in another year maybey less, when I went throguh then, I signed no next to the form that said I never have smoked marijuana (which is true) and I beleive it also said I pledge that I never will. I dont know how that whole thing works, but I figure they either shredded my paperwork by now or have it tucked somewhere, and I will likely need ot refill it out.. but nonetheless here is the situation.

Situation: Some of my friends occassionaly smoke pot, I never have, however the other day someone was talking to me as though they assumed I did, It made me begin to worry. When they go into the TS investigations, and they find out my friends did it (guilt by association?), suppose someone saw me once smoking a cigarette while they thought I was smoking marijuana, and they tell the person this, and I tell the TS person I have never done it, what sort of situation am I gonna be in.

Before saying anything I know that is a situation I created for myself, however I didnt realize the severity of it until the discussion with this person. I have since removed myself from situations when marijuana comes into the mix, but with all these pot questions lately (where did they all come from, been a huge influx) it makes me worried.

[WHAP]

wow, thats reaching a long ways bishop. They should not ask your friends about their behavior. They should ask them about you. If someone were to say you had smoked some ganja, it probably wouldnt be a show stopper, but it could create a little asspain. I really dont think you have anything to worry about. It turns into a he said she said argument, and the TS people cant win that one unless a couple of people sign affidavits saying you did.

[Guest CAVOK]

All,

"In most cases, substance abuse is disqualifying. Self-admission of preservice marijuana use without exposure to legal proceeding is not automatically disqualifying. Any use over five times may be disqualifying. Squadron commanders will review all AF Forms 2030 for officer applicants who have admitted to marijuana use without exposure to legal proceedings. Officer applicants must explain preservice marijuana use with a handwritten statement in the remarks section...."

That is from the governing AETC regulation. ROTC would not be allowed to be more lenient

Under PGM401 "Preservice Self-admitted Marijuana Usage" You can admit to having used up to 15 times before needing a waiver.

So the magic number you are looking for is 15.

With the number of highly qualified applicants, I can't see them handing out any or very many waivers.

CAVOK

[ 19. April 2006, 10:27: Message edited by: CAVOK ]

[Guest Cessna4152]

Can anyone tell me if there is a difference for Navy. NROTC gave me a much better scholorship and I will take that one if I can but I know for sure that for that one they said no drug use was a big deal. I also had the same problem with my parents being there when I signed the paper.

[Guest knof8]

https://www.nrotc.navy.mil/physicalreq.cfm

Navy still does not permit any drug abuse. No service will tolerate that.

[silverwolf0911]

I have a friend who got really wasted one night and used marijuana one time during our freshmen year. He is a scholarship cadet majoring in AE (if that matters). He's been really freaking out about it because he doesn't want to tell them straight up, but he doesn't want to lie either.

And now, we just got sent our security clearance paperwork and it's asking some questions that he doesn't want to answer. Any tips? Should he put it on the paperwork? Is one use of marijuana during freshmen year (and during AFROTC) going to end his career right there and then?

Thanks in advance for any responses.

[brabus]

Tell him to do what he feels is the best thing to do...no one on here is going to give you the answer that he's probably hoping you'll get - "just don't put it down, they'll never know. It's not a big deal." He should do what he thinks is best; I'm not persuading you to tell him to do one thing or the other. It could end his career, but on the other hand it was once and they may look past it as long as he admits he was stupid and won't do it again. Then again if he has to explain he got completley black out drunk while doing it, that's 2 BIG PROBLEMS (in their eyes) in one swoop. Use judgement, everyone's got at least some.

[magnetfreezer]

1. Drug use of any type is automatic disenrollment, especially with the current zero tolerance for alcohol infractions.

2. While reporting the incident will end your ROTC career, lying on a security clearance will make it much more difficult to get a cleared job in the future (even if your employer is willing to give you a second chance on the MJ use, they will be much more reluctant to excuse a major integrity violation).

[drewpey]

yeah, your friend would be kicked out. Not much they can do about it either...even if you were #1 and commander's pet, still going to give you the boot.

Unfortunately for him, those guys doing the investigating know what they are doing...and will probably find out one way or the other if he told people.

[Guest shaun]

I'm a prior enlisted air force 2Lt with over 10 years of uninterrupted service in weather. I'm currently 28 years old and hold a TS. When applying for OTS I was honest about experimentation with marijuana on two occasions while in high school. I wrote the required letter explaining the poor judgement choices I made as a 16 year old kid and obviously got through the gates. I've been in weather the whole time however, I've always aspired to be a pilot which is what led me to the AF to begin with. I recently made the firm commitment that I was going to pursue applying to UPT. Formerly, uncertain as it may incur hardships on family is the reason I've not already tried. I was disheartened to read in the reg. that illegal drug use makes you ineligible to apply. The road has been too long and windy to end here, right? The reg. makes no mention of the ability to do a waiver, just that one would be ineligible to apply. Is this true, experimentation with marijuana on two occasions in my very distant past prevents me from pursuing this dream? I don't know it seems hard to believe that there isn't a way. Who should I speak to about this? Any advice would be beyond appreciation.