Engine out procedures for Cessna 172-P

[Champ Kind]

Well, at least "Desmond Kelly" demonstrated aptitude in using the "search" function. So that's good, I guess.


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[Tonka]

On 06/16/2017 at 3:16 AM, desmond kelly said:

With regards to attempting a restart.I remember an instructor saying  once that the chances of the engine starting up again are something like one in a hundred.Does anyone know if this is reasonably accurate assumeing of course that the prob.is not carb.ice??

I'd say those are pretty good odds, what are you going to do... not try?

[moosepileit]

Chances are you have run a tank dry or have a fuel selector knocked out of detent if no indications existed prior.

Pitch to best glide, change tanks, boost pump as appropriate, check mag switch/s in case you were already in an error chain and only had one on or have a bad switch.  All immediate and reflexive.

Carb ice at cruise should have an obvious onset.  

You fly a 172-P with fuel selector on both and gravity feed available unless fuel-injected.  If you did not turn off the fuel, shear your fuel line, run out of gas or have a Harrison Ford carb disassemble- the engine did not just suddenly become a windmill.

The above sentence took longer to read than the diagnosis and realization you now likely get to deadstick a landing.

Edited June 17, 2017 by moosepileit

[HuggyU2]

On 6/16/2017 at 3:16 AM, desmond kelly said:

With regards to attempting a restart.I remember an instructor saying  once that the chances of the engine starting up again are something like one in a hundred.Does anyone know if this is reasonably accurate assumeing of course that the prob.is not carb.ice??

1.  Why would I assume it's not carb ice?  

2.  FAA stats:  Most engine failures are do to fuel starvation.  So change to the full tank and restart it.  

3.  "I remember an instructor saying" sounds like "I saw it on the internet, so it must be true".  

[desmond kelly]

I should have mentioned that i meant if i had applied carb heat at the initial engine out and verified that it was not carb heat or anything on the magic engine out checklist and i would certainly never run a fuel tank dry.Got a wee bit of common sense i,E,common sense=genius in its working clothes.Was just wondering what are the chances of it starting or are there any studies about this if having completed the checklist flow.e.g the inverted L on the c172 or the engine out checklist and found everything ok.Thanks for the replies.Desmond.

[hispeed7721]

I would certainly never run a fuel tank dry.

Nobody ever runs out of fuel intentionally. Don't count yourself above making a mistake just because it's a seemingly obvious mistake.


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[HuggyU2]

I recommend you head over to the forum at Airline Pilot Central.  It is more geared to what you are asking.  

Edited June 17, 2017 by HuggyU2

[moosepileit]

PilotsofAmerica forum might be of more help.

Pulling carb heat on a windmilling engine yields only a few seconds of heat.  Ram air is bypassing the air filter, flowing over dead exhaust pipes that are only a few hundred degrees and cooling instead of 1000 degrees, then to the carb box

A high wing, fuel gravity-fed engine windmilling, with an intact oil system, is likely doing so from pilot error or fuel contamination.

The checklist is stepping you through finding a really big, but simple mistake or committing to a proper forced landing.

 

[desmond kelly]

19 hours ago, gearpig said:

What are the chances of you editing your post to make it less painful to read?

The chances are very very good.Sorry i did not put enough thought into it and write it more simply and precise.

[desmond kelly]

19 hours ago, hispeed7721 said:

 

 

Nobody ever runs out of fuel intentionally. Don't count yourself above making a mistake just because it's a seemingly obvious mistake.


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Agree.No one should ever count themselves above making a seemingly obvious mistake especially in avaition.I always use the Golden Hour rule and sometimes the golden hour and a half rule.= always have one hour or one and a half hours fuel remaining in the tanks when you land.

[HuggyU2]

7 hours ago, desmond kelly said:

Golden Hour Rule...

... always have one hour or one and a half hours fuel remaining in the tanks when you land.

Hmmm.... I must have been doing something terribly wrong in the T-38.  I usually took off with less than 1.5 hours of fuel on board.  

My landings did adhere to the Golden 12 Minute Rule, however.  

Edited June 18, 2017 by HuggyU2

[the g-man]

14 minutes ago, HuggyU2 said:

Hmmm.... I must have been doing something terribly wrong in the T-38.  I usually took off with less than 1.5 hours of fuel on board.  

My landings did adhere to the Golden 12 Minute Rule, however.  

I'm surprised you ever took off.

[HossHarris]

Those fuel low lights just tell you when to make it a full stop. 

[HerkFE]

On 11/15/2006 at 3:04 AM, Smokin said:

Quote

 

 Everyone talks about the fields, but what about the farm roads surrounding all the fields?

I had to put a 172 down in a field once. It all worked out, didn't bend anything. The field was a cow pasture and the owner arrived about 10 minutes after we put it down and said he had just moved the cows off the field about an hour earlier. There were all of these deep depressions all over the field where the cows bedded down, I guess. We must have missed them all somehow because they were deep enough that I think it would have taken out the nose gear if we went over one. Anyway, I walked out to the road that ran along the field and looked down it. It was probably a mile long, straight as an arrow, no power lines and no signs on the sides....all I said was, WhyTF didn't I land on the road? Oh well, we walked away. 

[yatalpan]

2 hours ago, HerkFE said:

I had to put a 172 down in a field once. It all worked out, didn't bend anything. The field was a cow pasture and the owner arrived about 10 minutes after we put it down and said he had just moved the cows off the field about an hour earlier. There were all of these deep depressions all over the field where the cows bedded down, I guess. We must have missed them all somehow because they were deep enough that I think it would have taken out the nose gear if we went over one. Anyway, I walked out to the road that ran along the field and looked down it. It was probably a mile long, straight as an arrow, no power lines and no signs on the sides....all I said was, WhyTF didn't I land on the road? Oh well, we walked away. 

Why did you have to put it down?  Was a cause determined?

[HerkFE]

On 6/30/2017 at 10:56 PM, yatalpan said:

Why did you have to put it down?  Was a cause determined?

Exhaust valve on the number 4 cylinder gave up the ghost. It was July in Alabama, hot AF, full of gas and had a 220lb guy in there with me. We were 12 miles to the nearest airport, made it six miles before we gave up and put it down. It was running but about to shake off the mounts. I think we were descending about 200 feet per minute giving it all she had.

[ARAMP1]

On 6/30/2017 at 7:44 PM, HerkFE said:

I had to put a 172 down in a field once. It all worked out, didn't bend anything. The field was a cow pasture and the owner arrived about 10 minutes after we put it down and said he had just moved the cows off the field about an hour earlier. There were all of these deep depressions all over the field where the cows bedded down, I guess. We must have missed them all somehow because they were deep enough that I think it would have taken out the nose gear if we went over one. Anyway, I walked out to the road that ran along the field and looked down it. It was probably a mile long, straight as an arrow, no power lines and no signs on the sides....all I said was, WhyTF didn't I land on the road? Oh well, we walked away. 

I had to land a 172 on the beach once.  Pretty loud bang and oil everywhere.  (It turns out the engine doesn't run very when connecting rod bolts shear.)  All I could really do is fly it to the scene of the accident.  It was low tide and the sand was pretty compact.  I just got it as slow as I could and held the front wheel off as long as I could.  The FAA investigator complimented me on my landing.  I told her I've had worse.  Luckily, it was a cold day in FL and the beach was empty or I would have had to put it in the water.  I'm sure that would have ended up on youtube too.  

Edited July 3, 2017 by ARAMP1

[HerkFE]

33 minutes ago, ARAMP1 said:

I had to land a 172 on the beach once.  Pretty loud bang and oil everywhere.  (It turns out the engine doesn't run very when connecting rod bolts shear.)  All I could really do is fly it to the scene of the accident.  It was low tide and the sand was pretty compact.  I just got it as slow as I could and held the front wheel off as long as I could.  The FAA investigator complimented me on my landing.  I told her I've had worse.  Luckily, it was a cold day in FL and the beach was empty or I would have had to put it in the water.  I'm sure that would have ended up on youtube too.  

 

Nice job

[matmacwc]

I had to go to a beach once.  To do beach things, and thats about I'll I've got……good job!

[brabus]

we were rtb to Eglin that day and saw you guys land, solid work man. Too bad nobody got a pod on until after you were stopped, that would have been some good video to send over. Small world...

[ARAMP1]

17 minutes ago, brabus said:

we were rtb to Eglin that day and saw you guys land, solid work man. Too bad nobody got a pod on until after you were stopped, that would have been some good video to send over. Small world...

Ha.  Yeah, small world for sure.  

The controller at Pensacola Approach was awesome.  He cleared everyone out of the way, gave me the winds and told me "good luck".  LOL.  Winds were out of the east at 10 KTS.  Last I saw when I was touching down was 46 mph on the airspeed indicator and the stall horn was going off.  There was a C130 overhead that was able to relay to approach that we got down safely.  

Would have loved to have seen a video of it, even though it was fairly uneventful.  I even went back to ATC Live to see if I could listen to the tapes (and make sure I didn't sound like a bitch on the radio), but with all the frequencies for Pensacola, it didn't catch it.  

Edited July 4, 2017 by ARAMP1

[HerkFE]

I work for the FAA and, at the time we put that one down, I was working at the tower there in Montgomery. After we got out, we had a handheld and turned it on to the approach freq. We had another aero club airplane in the air (this was a Maxwell aero club airplane), We could hear him talking to approach and could tell they were trying to vector him to us. I was able to vector him in ( I could see him but he could not pick us out) and he was able to relay to ATC that we were okay. After a few minutes it dawned on me that I had the Tracon # in my phone so I just called them.  When they answered  it went something like "hey man, this is Joe from TechOps"...."Yeah, hey we are a little busy, just had a Cessna land in a field, can you call back in a few?"...."yeah, the Cessna in the field was me".  I asked for the audio when I went back to work and it was like pulling teeth. I had to wait about a month before they would let me have it. They (ATControllers) are scared to death of legal issues so they held on to it tight. After a month of constantly asking, the ATC manager finally let me have it.