Applying to the AF and Marines at the same time?

[Sean00xj]

I am an interview away from being finished with my AF OTS application. My scores are 88p 80n and 91pcsm. I will not know if I am accepted until June 3

SO...I called a marine officer recruiter today just to get information and got off the phone with my head spinning and an appointment to take the ATSB next Wednesday. The recruiter said that pilot is a 'hot priority' for the marines right now and acceptance is not to hard to get. I have a friend who is flying t45's in Texas who went through OCC with the marines, what I would go through. He did mention that in OCC even the best candidates have a 20% chance of washing out due to unlucky events such as a twisted ankle. He confirmed the belief that most marines want helo's and C130’s and a lot of guys are upset to have to fly f18's or harriers. I figured I could start the application process with the marines and get a select/non-select after I find out from the AF. But after talking to the recruiter I think they might move much quicker than the AF. If I do apply I will try to slow things down so that I hear from the AF first.

So is there any reason I should not start applying to the Marines? Is there any chance it could compromise an AF pilot selection? I know the AF is a nicer life but if I get the feeling I have a strong chance of getting an 18 I do not know if I would turn down the Marines for the AF.

[Guest comanche]

The only reason I know of is that you would be in the Marines, and who really wants that?? I just had to give you crap, I really don't know if it would do anything with the AF I don't see why it would.

[ucf_motorcycle]

Really I may have to look into that.

[Guest jlenker]

Yeah, me too.

I'll be on the phone with the USMC recruiter tomorrow. You know if they take 28-yr-old fossils?

[Sean00xj]

What I was told is that the AF is 'downsizing' and the Marines are 'growing' as they are a more mobile force...

The big thing here is that OCC is 10 weeks of absolute hell. You become a Marine THEN you become a pilot. you have a pilot slot when you sign up but you still will become a Marine first. My buddy who is flying T45's said the amount of running and carrying your m16 around is sickening. He had shinsplints. Guys washout not because they are incompetent but because of bad luck; IE a guy falls in front of you, you trip over him hurt yourself and you're gone...He did the two summer program as he was still in college. His first session 40% made it, of that 40% half came back for the second session.

He himself wanted Helo's and is still a little upset he was asigned to jets

interesting stuff...

[Guest comanche]

Do the marines have a reserve or something like that? Or are you guys only talking about active duty?

Comanche

[Guest flecth033]

The Marines are hiring pilots big time right now, and yes most of the guys want helo's and try not to get Jets. After OCS you do have to go to TBS (The Basic School) which is 6 months long. The only things you want to think about are the deployments, they deploy a lot but hey, you will be flying and that's what matters. If you want some good aviation info from Marine pilots check out www.airwarriors.com. I have posted some questions that you might want to know answers to. Check out https://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9848. They seem to have a good program. You will have to do good on the PFT- pullups, sit-ups, 3 mile run in order to get a pilot slot. And like you said you go to OCS and get the sh$t kicked out of you, and then TBS. The age cutoff for Marines is 27 meaning you have to be commissioned by 27. However they are easier on waivers. I talked to a viper driver in the guard, and my intstrument instructor was a nav in the Marines and they both liked it. My instrument instructor got out to pursue commercial aviation and the viper dude joined the guard because he's in a sweet unit (Buckley), and there are way more fighter guard units then there are reserve hornet units. Check out that forum I posted and you will get a lot of questions answered.

[Riddller]

Its true, its way easier to get age waivers in the Marines. When I was in, a bunch of pilot buddies all said they had people from 31 to 34 years old going through flight training with them. As for easier to get fighters, it all depends on the week you graduate. You don't graduate with the class you start with, you graduate when you're done, and if the people in your class all want helos, then your golden, otherwise not. I will tell you that the top #1 or #2 guy almost always try to go Herks, but they only get like one drop every 2 weeks for Herks, so sometimes people hold off graduating a week or 2 until one comes down the pipe.

[Scooter14]

If you end up at Vance, they will submit your paperwork when you are done, it's tough to game the system at an AF base, since the whole mystical "timeline" is based on when the class finishes as a whole.

On our track select day, a couple of our Navy/Marine brethren did not get their slots because they finished inside of a week before track select, and it wasn't back yet. We had 1 USMC jet, 1 Navy jet, 1 Navy T-44 (height issue - too tall to fly anything but a P-3) and the rest helos. I think a couple more jets came down the next week. Like Riddler said, it's all timing.

[Guest kmgraham79]

If you want hornets, Marines are a great way to go. However, Navy and Marine Corps pilots struggle to get hours in. I've heard from many legit sources that Navy and Marine Corps pilots are given desk jobs as a primary reponsibility and their job as a pilot is almost like a secondary responsibility. In the AF, AF Reserve and Guard, you're a pilot above everything else.

Just food for thought. Go to www.airwarriors.com and ask around. They should give you good info.

[Guest kmgraham79]

Also, in the Marine Corps, the top graduate of primary and secondary flight training get their choice of aircraft. The rest of the class is like rolling dice. If you get a class that all wants to fly F/A-18's, chances of you getting one is slim. I would ask around on www.airwarriors.com what the percentage of nuggets choose jets as opposed to other aircraft and what percentage actually get that choice. Chances of getting a jet aircraft in the USMC is tough...only options are Harriers and Hornets. Chances of getting a jet fighter aircraft in the AF is much better...F-15C, F-15E, F-16, F/A-22 (eventually the JSF) and bombers are great too...B-1B, B-2, B-52.

However, due to the new front of warfare (that being combating terrorism)...the military will be shifting a lot of its resources to more mobile forces such as the USMC. That being said, there is a possibility that the AF will continue to downsize their forces and the USMC and Army to increase their forces. Which you've already noted. If that's the case being a marine aviator might be the way to go.

Confused yet?

To ad to your comment that the AF is downsizing and USMC is increasing, I would imagine that the number of squadrons, aircraft and pilots will remain relatively unchanged in the USMC even though the entire force is growing. I believe they're looking to increase the number of ground-pounders.

Although, what the hell do I know about anything? I'm still sitting at a desk job trying to get a Guard UPT slot.

[Guest kmgraham79]

Can't forget A-10's!

[Guest jlenker]

I was thinking about the USMC also, so I went to interview yesterday. The interview went well, but after thinking about it and talking with folks that have had experience, my gut is telling me that the Marine quality of life is not even near that of the AF; not to mention that becoming a field officer first via 6 months of training AFTER OCS is not what I had in mind. Of course, the Marine Cpt. I spoke to poked fun at the AF for a number of things, but in the end he said he respected what they do, just didn't think the AF is representative of the best the US Military has to offer.

I'm glad I explored the option but after some thought and advice from my father, uncle and friends who were/are all AF, I feel the only way for me to fly in the military is in the AF. If I don't get selected, I'll move on.

[Guest kmgraham79]

ANGWannabe-

What did he say about your age being 28 in terms of a pilot slot? Like mentioned before, I've heard that you must be commissioned by 27, and I've also heard from recruiters that deal with the enlisted men that you must be 28 by commissioning. Did you speak to an officer recruiter or a recruiter for enlisted personnel?...Did he mention anything about age waivers?

[Guest jlenker]

He said that you have to be commissioned by your 29th birthday. He also said that I would need an age waiver even though I could enter the Oct. OCS and be commissioned before my 29th birthday -- this I didn't really understand, but he was sure about it.

In terms of getting a pilot slot, he said they would guarantee me flight at time of application. In other words, as long as I was selected for officer training by the board, I would enter OCS and TBS, then go to Pensacola for pilot training. If I failed in pilot training for any reason, I would acquire a 4-4.5 year obligation as a ground officer or some other capacity in the USMC.

[Guest kmgraham79]

Thanks for the info ANGWannabe. Talk about stressful...fail pilot training and you're a grunt on the front lines or in the streets of Baghdad...well, not so much a grunt, but at least in the same predicament as the grunts you command.

[ 28. March 2005, 11:34: Message edited by: kmgraham79 ]

[Guest SnakeT38]

Like someone said............only in the Air Force

is flying an airplane your PRIMARY job. Not sure

I understand the "logic" on the assignments,

unless C-130's are home more.........but for pure

flying enjoyment NOTHING compares to flying fighters!!!!!!! I know, having flown B-52, 727,

MD80, DC10, MD11 and F-100.......big planes DO NOT fly like little fast ones or even little slow ones (A-10).

[UPT-hopeful]

My cousin flew Harriers in the Marines for a while (just moved to another airframe). He only averaged a little over 100 hrs a year. Talk about suck.

[Sean00xj]

"If you pass the ATSB I can assure you that you will get a pilot slot"-Marine recruiter

I took the ATSB today. I also talked to my AF recruiter who told me that my SC interview went well and the commander marked 'outstanding' on every aspect...I think I'll wait for the june OTS release before persueing the marines further

[ucf_motorcycle]

I just talked to a Marine recruiter. It seems like it may be an avenue for me to fly for the military seeing as it doesn't look good for me this board. The marines is certainly not the easy way in especially physicaly. I think I will start the application process with them and see if I get in on the Air Force 0504 board if not then I would have to wait 180 days before reapplying anyway so I think I will go ahead with a Marines application.

The only thing that I am hesitant about with the Marines is not so much that you will fly less, (100hr a year sounds like a rare case and its still better than what I am doing now) I could live with that. I think there is a quality of life difference between an air force and a marine pilot. It seems like Marine pilots are away from home more, have less time off in general, and are put under more pressure with their other duties along with flying. I hope someone can clarify for me if this is true or not because this is just my speculation from what I have gathered through several sources.

On a side note.

The Marines are going to get the JSF also

"The JSF is being built in three variants: a conventional take-off and landing aircraft (CTOL) for the US Air Force; a carrier based variant (CV) for the US Navy; and a short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) aircraft for the US Marine Corps and the Royal Navy."

Anyone have any idea when slots for JSF's will be given out.

[ucf_motorcycle]

Originally posted by Sean00xj:

"If you pass the ATSB I can assure you that you will get a pilot slot"-Marine recruiter

I took the ATSB today. I also talked to my AF recruiter who told me that my SC interview went well and the commander marked 'outstanding' on every aspect...I think I'll wait for the june OTS release before persueing the marines further

How was the ATSB similar to the AFOQT or not so much? How did you do? What are competitive scores?

[Guest Michael]

Anyone have any idea when slots for JSF's will be given out.

I'd like to know this too. According to Wikipedia, the Marines will be the first to get to use the F-35, and it will be the short takeoff/verticle landing version. Will this be carrier based?

[yerfer]

I'd like to know this too. According to Wikipedia, the Marines will be the first to get to use the F-35, and it will be the short takeoff/verticle landing version. Will this be carrier based?

Yes, and yes.

[Guest Michael]

Yes, and yes.

So, if it is based on carriers, will it sometimes do conventional carrier takeoffs and landings with an arrestor hook and all that?

[Guest Michael]

Its true, its way easier to get age waivers in the Marines. When I was in, a bunch of pilot buddies all said they had people from 31 to 34 years old going through flight training with them. As for easier to get fighters, it all depends on the week you graduate. You don't graduate with the class you start with, you graduate when you're done, and if the people in your class all want helos, then your golden, otherwise not. I will tell you that the top #1 or #2 guy almost always try to go Herks, but they only get like one drop every 2 weeks for Herks, so sometimes people hold off graduating a week or 2 until one comes down the pipe.

I would think people would rather fly the Cobra than the Hercules.