Exception to Policy (ETP) information

[WeMeantWell]

Well I've pretty much given up, as no one I've talked to can help me out so far... If someone does have some info for ETP from a civillian once a waiver is denied, please shoot me a PM. Thanks

FWIW, I have heard enough "Stories"... If you shouldn't fly with it, then you shouldn't fly with it. If it is a semi-illogical rule then you have a better chance. Gearmonkey gave you the documents to make it happen, now it is up to you to decide how much red-tape "pain" you are willing to deal with. If this is what you want and blood, sweat, and tears are worth it, then get with your recruiter, have him find someone you can work with (or the recruiter himself) put together those documents, make yourself look like someone worth fighting for, you paperwork better show that you walk on water and the AF would be silly to pass on you. Call every day, visit in person when you can, type as much of the documents up as you can and have them forward them up (any AF office knows what a SSS is, and the routing is simple, straight up the chain)

No one cares about this 1% of what you care about it, so they will not lift a finger for you, unless you give them the tools to help you. Tell them, this is how it is done, lets make it happen, instead of "How do I do it?"... That all being said, it is a gamble of your time, unless you truely walk on water... from many stories, you don't mess around with ear, nose, and throat problems when you fly airplanes, the pain you receive is not worth it. Ask your doc to take them out if he thinks it is justified, let them heal and then re-apply... The worse thing about the military is no one person knows all the rules, the best thing about the military is no one person knows all the rules, so you keep asking until someone gives you an answer you like.

[Guest Fuse]

Thanks, I have some of that documentation, but have no one to give it to. Every call I've made has been met with "What's an ETP waiver?" and "Never heard of them - they don't exist" - actual words from the 'waiver' person at Scott AFB flight med. I really am one to do most things on my own, and the reason the tubes went in in the first place was not severe so reapplying with them out is an option I'm also considering - but despite the other bumps in the OTS road over the last three years I'm shocked this was the one to screw me.

sorry for the sob story. =)

[Guest goducks]

Thanks, I have some of that documentation, but have no one to give it to. Every call I've made has been met with "What's an ETP waiver?" and "Never heard of them - they don't exist" - actual words from the 'waiver' person at Scott AFB flight med. I really am one to do most things on my own, and the reason the tubes went in in the first place was not severe so reapplying with them out is an option I'm also considering - but despite the other bumps in the OTS road over the last three years I'm shocked this was the one to screw me.

sorry for the sob story. =)

Fuse,

I'm not expert on ETP's, but here's what I can tell you if it might help a little. An ETP is not a medical waiver and does not go through the medical chain. Thus, the folks at Scott flight med probably aren't familiar with them. An ETP is generated from the line. Someone from the operations side, who can pull enough strings, has to be willing to support you. Basically an ETP is the medical folks saying you're not medically qualified and the line folks saying "We don't care, we'll take him anyway." So don't spin your wheels too much with the medical folks. They are involved in waivers and have nothing to do with ETPs.

Other folks can offer you better insight than I can regarding how you get an ETP. Just wanted to clarify that the med folks probably aren't going to be of any help in this one.

I wish you luck.

GD

[Bayou_Eagle_Driver]

Okay, thread revival time.

I Just got DQ'd at the beginning of Phase II in UPT (Herniated Disc, had back surgery, outcome good.) and it looks like I'm going to need to put together an ETP package in order to continue training (Waiver available for FCII, but not FCI). My supervisor back at my guard unit has some people looking into what an ETP is and how it works, but I figured I'd get on the ball and start getting everything ready.

Here's the issue. I've found information from both the USAFA (USAFAI36-2205) and AFROTC (AFROTCI36-2011) with great, detailed information on submitting a MEDICAL ETP to the CSAF. Additionally, I found some good information on submitting a regular AF ETP (Age Waiver) in AFI 36-2205.

Is this info valid in my case? I have a hard time believing my commander would want to endorse something based on an USAFAI or an AFROTCI (That references CADETS), and the AFI 36-2205 (Attachment 2.3) is specifically focused on the Age Waiver.

Am I missing an AFI? I find it hard to believe that Medical ETPs are not outlined in some general AFI somewhere. Even something as simple as "ETPs are a Line issue, and not medically related" to give to my units flight doc, who's burning the midnight oil trying to find out waiver info.

I feel like I have a good handle on what's required (based on the USAFA and AFROTC info), and who it goes to (Based on the AFI) - but I don't know how to present it to my guard unit in a way that makes sense.

Thanks Baseops!

[GearMonkey]

Am I missing an AFI? I find it hard to believe that Medical ETPs are not outlined in some general AFI somewhere. Even something as simple as "ETPs are a Line issue, and not medically related" to give to my units flight doc, who's burning the midnight oil trying to find out waiver info.

Based on my experience (6-7 years ago now) those are the only references out there. The only mention of ETPs I ever saw was the age waiver reference in the 48-123. This tells you (sort of) how to submit the ETP but doesn't offer much further detail. I suspect this is done on purpose to weed people out and decrease the workload for USAF/HQ and USAF/SG.

Basically the ETP consists of a SSS (look in the T&Q) with a variety of attachments. I wrote a memo explaining my case, included letters of support (from my chain of command, former PASs, my Congressman), and provided extensive medical documentation (exam results, letters from civilian doctors/specialists, and copies of the less stringent standards used by the Navy/Army/FAA). It took about six months for the ETP package to work up the chain and get approved.

Hope this info helps. I think that already being at UPT will be helpful since it is cheaper to keep you there than PCS you again.

[Bayou_Eagle_Driver]

Great info GM - thanks a ton.

[PK...]

Revival #2

Anyone know the standard routing flow for ETP waivers? I'm wondering who is considered "in the chain" once the SSS package goes past the Wing Commander. I know the Key players (NAF/CC, MAJCOM/CC, AF/CV, AF/CC) ... but does anyone know what offices are needed in-between those guys?

Unfortunately, I find myself having to possibly go through this. I am half an inch under the sitting height; and even though I exceed the standing height, AETC is not giving me a waiver, or allowing me the opportunity to do a Functional Cockpit Check. This is because they say that I have been coded by their computer evaluation system as "red/unsafe" for Air Force aircraft based on a few of my other measurements (Sitting-knee height, buttock-to-knee length, standing shoulder height, sitting-eye height, arm span, and functional arm reach). I'm guessing that since I am half an inch low on sitting height, I am probably a little below the sitting-eye height and maybe even the shoulder height.

This whole thing is a little confusing for me, the flight doc, and most of my leadership out here because if the minimums are 64" standing, and 34" sitting... and I measure at 66" standing, and 33.5" sitting; how is it that I am not at the very worst "yellow/marginal" according to their system? Am I so far out of limits than those that just meet the standards that I go straight from green to red? Keep in mind that if one just meets the minimum standing and sitting height, they do not have to take the additional measurements. On top of that, there are multiple others in the squadron that hover around 62/63" standing & 34/33" sitting ... they are all currently on height waivers. The AETC system is even more confusing because I am physically taller/bigger than all of them. AETC is standing their ground on the integrity of their program and telling me that everyone else's extra measurements are good enough according to their system but mine aren't... end of story. They say that my only chance of starting UPT is getting an ETP from the CSAF. (I am on casual status at NAS Whiting right now).

I'd appreciate help from anyone that has been through an ETP or seen one before. I can do up the SSS and everything required, but I don't know the exact path on how to get it to the big boss. If anyone has pointers on the process, I'd appreciate that too. I have done measurements with the Navy and I am green in all areas. Right now, I'm asking AETC to let me do a cockpit check for the sole purpose of this ETP waiver. I am hopeful that if I include good results from a cockpit check, along with my successful Navy anthro, it might help my situation a little better.

Thanks folks.

---

PK...

[Daredevileng1]

Based on my experience (6-7 years ago now) those are the only references out there. The only mention of ETPs I ever saw was the age waiver reference in the 48-123. This tells you (sort of) how to submit the ETP but doesn't offer much further detail. I suspect this is done on purpose to weed people out and decrease the workload for USAF/HQ and USAF/SG.

Basically the ETP consists of a SSS (look in the T&Q) with a variety of attachments. I wrote a memo explaining my case, included letters of support (from my chain of command, former PASs, my Congressman), and provided extensive medical documentation (exam results, letters from civilian doctors/specialists, and copies of the less stringent standards used by the Navy/Army/FAA). It took about six months for the ETP package to work up the chain and get approved.

Hope this info helps. I think that already being at UPT will be helpful since it is cheaper to keep you there than PCS you again.

PM Sent

[capt4fans]

OK, quick question that I don't entirely have time to find, and haven't done the best searching for on my own, so call me a slacker. I was DQ'd last year for a neurologic disorder. I'm currently appealing that DQ thanks to the head flight doc at my local base. My question is, if the AF denies my appeal, can I work and ETP? Or am I out of luck even though they're DQ'ing someone with 6 years of pilot service, and almost 13 years of aircrew service.

Thanks for the help and standing by for arrow to tell me to search more.

[Guest]

An ETP will always trump a waiver, and it may end up being tracked by the waiver system (AIMWTS) in the end. Note though that MAJCOM is usually the approval authority, so the appeal / ETP is likely going to AF/SG, which is probably going to take a long time.

Also, when you submit a medical package that high, they HEAVILY scrutinize packages. Don't be surprised if they ask for additional/repeat exams that other physicians might think are overkill.

[Guest]

New Guidance Memorandum for AFI 36-2101 solidifies ETP processes a little bit. Below is an excerpt:

AFI36-2101_AFGM1

[...]

(Replace) 3.7. Waiving Mandatory Requirements. Mandatory requirements for awarding AFSCs may be waived in extremely rare instances for individuals possessing exceptional qualifications determined to be equivalent to the mandatory requirements. Approval authority and procedures to request classification waivers are outlined below and in Tables 3.1. and Table 3.2. A waiver request must start with the individual or the individual’s immediate supervisor. Waiver requests must be fully justified and documented. Only requests that are recommended for approval should be forwarded to the next review level (see paragraph 3.7.5., Table 3.3. and Table 3.4. for processing instructions). NOTE: Procedures to request waivers pertaining to on-the-job training (OJT) time-in-training for AFSC upgrade are contained in Table 3.4.

I saw an ETP in a medical record for the first time the other week, signed by the then Air Force Surgeon General (AF/SG), Lt Gen "Peach" Taylor. The Airman said it took many, MANY months of hard work to convince many different people to get accepted.

[eb287]

I imagine most ETPs are submitted for FC1/1A (?), but are waivers and/or ETPs any more likely to get approved for initial FCIIU or FCIII, especially for a condition which can be shown to be stable and that would not affect safety of flight or mission accomplishment (and IS waiverable for trained aircrew)?

[Guest]

Nearly all standards are more lenient for FC II/IIU/III than I/IA, and the waivers become proportionally easier, though these are obviously still much more stringent than general, non-flying enlistment/commission. ETP is entirely outside the medical process, as you'll learn by reading this thread, however that bar would be a little lower if you're shooting for a lower standard, but this is similar to saying that instead of needing to bench press 400 lb.s, you only need to bench press 375 lb.s. ETP's are extraordinarily difficult.

Remember that you need to meet FCI standards for the Initial Flying Class approval to become a Pilot. FCII is for "trained" personnel, already in the AFSC, and only later needing the waiver.

[deaddebate]

Recommend anybody with access to the AFMS Kx read the new Medical Standards Directory (MSD). The Air Force is bringing down the hammer. Expect many more RILO's/MEB's.

ETP's by extension will be more difficult.

[HossHarris]

Care to elaborate? Any hot issues or surprises?

[deaddebate]

I've reviewed the new standards and asked some questions to leadership. Still pending answers, so the below are just my first thoughts.

It appears that specialty care (Orthopedics, Endocrinology, Pulmonology, etc.) will be much more heavily scrutinized. Also, more generic standards and individual interpretation will be extended to the average doctor and MTF to pursue I-RILO/MEB for patients that were often hard to stick with the old standards which were sometimes overly-specific or too narrowly defined.

Also, the waiver guide has been updated somewhat extensively, however the link in my signature block is to the old compilation. A number of standards are only available on the AFMS Kx, and I don't know if the average Airman can access that, but you can certainly try.

[tankass]

I'm at the end of the road, facing DQ and separation, so any help/advice is appreciated. TIA.

I've just been DQ'ed for prior minor marijuana use that I fully disclosed every time the question was asked since day 1. I was selected for pilot, enlisted with my ANG unit, completed FC-1, have a fully adjudicated TS and was waiting for NGB approval and AMS/UPT dates when the DQ came down.

Is an ETP request an option for me in this situation? Since I'm facing separation, I feel like I have nothing to lose in trying. Any suggestions/ideas?

Thanks, guys.

[brabus]

Since I'm facing separation, I feel like I have nothing to lose in trying

Shack. No idea what your chances are of success, but no reason not to try. Good luck.

[rancormac]

Who DQd you?

[tankass]

The WG/CC.

ETA: Strong neg support for ETP.

Edited December 14, 2013 by tankass

[Hotel]

Points of clarification:

a) An ETP is not the same as a medical waiver appeal. The medical waiver appeal is done on the medical side prior to an ETP. Correct?

What I cannot find is any reg reference to the medical appeal process for a denied medical waiver.

I found in AFI 48-125, 6.4.1.11:

if AFMSA/SG3P disqualifies a service member, then second waiver requests for previously disqualified conditions are considered on a case-by-case basis only, and waiver authority for these individuals is AFMSA/SG3P

There's also a statement in 6.4.7.3 saying if a member is DQ'd then the flight surgeon will advise the member and provide a Form 422 for retraining actions. I would expect this would also reference the appeal, but it does not.

This is in reference to existing members with a FCII not a new hire.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Hotel

[deaddebate]

AFI 48-123 does include that tiny potential for waiver appeal if AFMSA had previously disqualified the member. AFMSA is the waiver authority for all IFC I (pilot) cases, so your "appeal" still goes to that same high level, as IFC I's are above MAJCOM/AFRC/ANG. If you were disqualified by AFMSA, you would need to prove to your local flight doc that your condition had changed/improved significantly enough to warrant review and reconsideration by AFMSA. In this case, a waiver would be re-submitted via AIMWTS to AFMSA, who may require additional eval at ACS/MFS. If this is all applicable, waiver likelihood is decent.

If there has been no substantial change in condition and you request review solely for reconsideration of waiver or that your usefulness to the Air Force outweighs the potential risk, chances of approval are slim to none. Your FSO clinic would almost certainly take no action at all, but you could conceivably submit your waiver request directly to AFMSA. Without the support of the local FS, it would be dead-on-arrival.

Realistically, if you were already denied and there is no new medical development since the last waiver, you ought to just jump to an ETP (if you want to pursue one).

ETP's should be written to highlight your value to the Air Force and attempt to nullify the perceived risk of whatever your medical condition is. You cannot change the minds of the Medical Authority--they review the facts (including flight experience) and make a determination. You can change the mind of AFPC/CFM--they review the facts AND the circumstances (needs of the Air Force, personal testimony, letters of commendation/recommendation, etc.), and that is why the ETP process exists.

[thoma015]

I'm bringing this thread back to the top. I just got denied a waiver for a kidney stone I had 3 years ago (it was my second one), so now my only option is to submit a ETP. Anyone have the most recent information? I'm looking for a way to get started. Routing, documents required, the whole 9 yards. Any help is greatly appreciated.

[deaddebate]

Before you push for an ETP, you do have one final appeal to AFMSA. AFI 48-123 para 6.4.1. states that if a MAJCOM dq's you, only AFMSA/SG3PF can overturn it through a new waiver request. This new waiver is usually still routed through the same MAJCOM's on it's way up. Conceivably, your medical unit could submit directly to AFMSA but this is considered very poor form, and AFMSA may just push it back to the MAJCOM's first before they review it. However know that you are almost starting the waiver processing all over, so at the fastest this will still take 45+ days, but probably closer to 90 days for most cases.

For an ETP, the updated AFI 36-2101 para 3.7., Table 3.1. Rule 5, and Notes 1, 3, 4, and 5 are the applicable references. Paraphrasing these rules and notes:

"If the requirement is "other" mandatory requirements in the Officer Classification Directory specialty description and the officer has provided justification then approval authority is HQ AFPC/ DPSIC.

The MPS will ensure the individual requesting the waiver provides rationale and justification why the waiver is warranted and include appropriate supporting documentation (i.e., transcripts, training records, performance reports, test results, letters of recommendation, medical evaluations, or other documents justifying the request). If a waiver is requested for physical reasons, forward only those recommended for approval by base medical authority. A copy of the waiver decision is forwarded to the AFCFM. The AFCFM is the approval authority. ANG and AFR officers requesting waiver under this rule will complete waiver requests IAW the respective Classification Waiver Guide and send to NGB/AFR CFM for review and coordination. Waiver packages will be forwarded to HQ AFPC/DPSIC for coordination with the AFCFM."

Could someone who has actually successfully routed an ETP confirm the routing? I believe it needs to route through your full Chain of Command (Sq/CC, Gp/CC, Wg/CC, MAJCOM/CC) and then to AFPC/DP (the AFCFM, aka the career field manager), and it should be supported the whole way. Even then, the AFCFM may just as likely DQ it without any justification.

[thoma015]

Ok so I am currently on active duty, non rated. I was selected to fly for a reserve unit. When my IFC1 waiver was submitted it was first sent to AFRC who supported me and in turn sent the waiver to AETC where it was denied. Should I ask my flight doc to send the new waiver request to AFRC (who supported me) or to AETC (who denied me) who will then send it to to AFMSA/SG3PF?

Edited April 23, 2015 by thoma015