Exception to Policy (ETP) information

[Guardvipers]

Looking for some good info from some knowledgeable individuals.

My backstory is I am guard guy with prior enlisted time as a crewchief on Vipers, was lucky enough to get selected by my unit for a UPT slot. Attended Wright-Pat a year ago and passed all test with flying colors to receive my FC1 with one waiver for a minor eye condition. I went to OTS shortly after, but while at OTS all rated officers were given hearing exams to which I failed with H-3 results for my left ear at high frequency (4000 & 6000Hz). I was then sent to Doctor's office for an evaluation to which they found I had a severe sinus cold and an ear block (left ear) that the test proctor had failed to visually notice. The Dr told me not to worry, he put me on cold meds and told me we would retest later when I was healthy (which never happened at OTS). After graduation, I arrived at ENJJPT for an August 2017 start. Upon starting pilot training, the Flight Doc reviewed each students medical docs and conducted some brief tests before signing off on our FC1's. One of those tests happened to be a hearing exam to which I tested at H-3 once again. The Flight Doc proceeded to follow the waiver guide by having me retest twice on base, seek a civilian specialist (local ENT), and even got authorized a backseat ride in the T-6 with an IP to conduct an In-flight hearing exam, all of which I passed with no difficulty. The waiver was written for asymmetric H-2 hearing (left ear) because specialists test showed me at 50-55dB @4000Hz and 45dB @6000Hz. AETC/SG rejected the waiver surprising my Flight Doc and IP's. I got my guard unit and OG/CC involved to no immediate avail. I was terminated from training in November (start of phase 2) and have been fighting my case ever since. Every rated pilot and Flight Doc I have talked to has supported my case saying the ruling is obsurd and to fight it. They concur I am 1-click away from passing the hearing exam (being waiverable) for onbase testing (60dB to 55dB @4000Hz) and that I should be a no-brainer for an ETP. I have been building my ETP and testing on base at Sheppard regularly. I passed the onbase test once but was told I had to retest immediately that day per the AFI, to which I could not duplicate my results (btw 2 hearing exams in a row is torture).

I apologize for being long winded and understand this is more of a hearing standards question, but I would appreciate any feedback on both hearing standards and ETP info. I have been doing my research but want to make sure I am not missing something.

[08Dawg]

Anybody know what the approval chain for the Medical ETP is for Guard/Reserve side?  Still Wing-NAF-MAJCOM-AF/CV?

[Guardvipers]

On 4/23/2017 at 8:10 AM, 08Dawg said:

Anybody know what the approval chain for the Medical ETP is for Guard/Reserve side?  Still Wing-NAF-MAJCOM-AF/CV?

According to the guidance I have found, the Guard Medical ETP chain is OG/CC-WG/CC-TAG-NGB/A1-NGB/CF. Correct me if I am wrong, but I found a publication for how to submit Age Waivers and Medical ETPs.

[tgonzo29]

Does anybody know the approval chain of command for the active duty side for somebody who has been selected to go to OTS and UPT?


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[jonlbs]

So currently have an ETP in the works, but the waiver-able limits for my condition have changed since my ETP started its routing (still out of limits but only a small amount now). Is there a specific protocol for a rebuttal? My current Flight Surgeon wrote a memo supporting my rebuttal and as of now the plan is to submit it to AFMSA. Or should we go thru AETC again first? And will any of that interfere with the ETP?

From what I know, my ETP case gets reviewed medically (to provide solid medical info to the decision makers) and don't want to step on any toes since the ETP is supposed to be a last resort and now I'm trying medically again.

 

[matmacwc]

On 3/14/2019 at 4:51 PM, jonlbs said:

So currently have an ETP in the works, but the waiver-able limits for my condition have changed since my ETP started its routing (still out of limits but only a small amount now). Is there a specific protocol for a rebuttal? My current Flight Surgeon wrote a memo supporting my rebuttal and as of now the plan is to submit it to AFMSA. Or should we go thru AETC again first? And will any of that interfere with the ETP?

From what I know, my ETP case gets reviewed medically (to provide solid medical info to the decision makers) and don't want to step on any toes since the ETP is supposed to be a last resort and now I'm trying medically again.

 

@deaddebate

[jonlbs]

On 3/14/2019 at 6:51 PM, jonlbs said:

So currently have an ETP in the works, but the waiver-able limits for my condition have changed since my ETP started its routing (still out of limits but only a small amount now). Is there a specific protocol for a rebuttal? My current Flight Surgeon wrote a memo supporting my rebuttal and as of now the plan is to submit it to AFMSA. Or should we go thru AETC again first? And will any of that interfere with the ETP?

From what I know, my ETP case gets reviewed medically (to provide solid medical info to the decision makers) and don't want to step on any toes since the ETP is supposed to be a last resort and now I'm trying medically again.

 

@stuckindayton

 

Just heard back from USAFSAM that they would not recommend the waiver since its out of limits still (even if its way less).

Knew this was coming, but if I’m outside of waiverable limits will AFMSA even bother looking at it or is there a chance they take a look at the whole picture and maybe say ya hes outside the numbers but his actual functionality is pretty good and sign it?

My medical personnel believe the ETP is the best chance now but I’m curious if I should push them anymore on the medical cause I know AFSMA is an authority still.

Edited March 27, 2019 by jonlbs
Tried but failed to make font the same size

[stuckindayton]

7 hours ago, jonlbs said:

@stuckindayton

 

Just heard back from USAFSAM that they would not recommend the waiver since its out of limits still (even if its way less).

Knew this was coming, but if I’m outside of waiverable limits will AFMSA even bother looking at it or is there a chance they take a look at the whole picture and maybe say ya hes outside the numbers but his actual functionality is pretty good and sign it?

My medical personnel believe the ETP is the best chance now but I’m curious if I should push them anymore on the medical cause I know AFSMA is an authority still.

Jon,

USAFSAM has no authority to offer a positive recommendation for anyone who exceeds waiver limits.  They essentially interpret the policy for the waiver authority.  AFMSA (and AETC) have the authority to waive anything they want.  They usually follow the written policy, but not in every case.  I don't know what they will do in this case as there are very few people who have refractive surgery with refractive errors above +5.00.  At this point, there seems little harm in starting an ETP.  I don't see it having any impact on your medical disposition.  You are technically still DQ'd so an ETP can be initiated (it can't be if your disposition is still in limbo).  If AFMSA comes around and offers a waiver then you d/c the ETP process.

[megabyteme]

I'm looking to apply to a UPT board that holds interviews 4 days after I turn 28 1/2. Has anybody had experience with this and/or know if it's a show-stopper? 

 

thanks in advance!

[JustHangingOut]

15 minutes ago, megabyteme said:

I'm looking to apply to a UPT board that holds interviews 4 days after I turn 28 1/2. Has anybody had experience with this and/or know if it's a show-stopper? 

 

thanks in advance!

depends on the air frame i would think....but otherwise...the age is now 33 to start UPT so you're good

[Mikey]

Does anyone in here know if anyone’s whose gone through IFS/UFT pipeline, got eliminated for non-medical issues, and has tried or will try to apply again with an ETP?

[TLIMSISNW]

I've been looking through the forum but haven't been able to find an answer on this. I have a medical DQ from WP that multiple FS in the AF have said are bogus and not valid. Unfortunately, my unit has dropped me a sent my slot back to NGB. I do not have their support for an ETP. Can a civilian pursue an ETP without a chain of command? If so how is that done?

 

Another question is I've been reading that AFMSA is the last chance on the appeal process for the medical side. Can a civilian also do that with any random FS who supports them?

[stuckindayton]

7 hours ago, TLIMSISNW said:

I've been looking through the forum but haven't been able to find an answer on this. I have a medical DQ from WP that multiple FS in the AF have said are bogus and not valid. Unfortunately, my unit has dropped me a sent my slot back to NGB. I do not have their support for an ETP. Can a civilian pursue an ETP without a chain of command? If so how is that done?

 

Another question is I've been reading that AFMSA is the last chance on the appeal process for the medical side. Can a civilian also do that with any random FS who supports them?

Sent a PM.

[flyingfor2]

Lost the ETP battle as an current-AD UPT select. Question— I know the ETP routing is different on the Guard/Reserve side of the house. Has anyone had success with them? And has anyone tried the Civil Path to Wings as a selling point for the ETP board? 
 

My situation is of monofixation. They said it appears my eyes have gotten worse since the time I joined the AF until now. They haven’t gotten worse… The truth nobody wants to talk about is how lenient my FC1A was back then… No chance of re-testing, they say…

Just asking the question; thank you! 

[jonlbs]

8 hours ago, flyingfor2 said:

Lost the ETP battle as an current-AD UPT select. Question— I know the ETP routing is different on the Guard/Reserve side of the house. Has anyone had success with them? And has anyone tried the Civil Path to Wings as a selling point for the ETP board? 
 

My situation is of monofixation. They said it appears my eyes have gotten worse since the time I joined the AF until now. They haven’t gotten worse… The truth nobody wants to talk about is how lenient my FC1A was back then… No chance of re-testing, they say…

Just asking the question; thank you! 

Lost the ETP battle on the reserves side. Had lots and lots of firepower backing it up too. Eyes as well. 

My chain of command thought the civil path to wings would help but made no difference. I reached out and made direct contact with CSAF and he came back saying “sorry man the FAA doesn’t look forward 10 years like we do, try another job”

Frustrating and I wish I had better news, haven’t found much medical ETP success stories so if you find some let me know.

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by jonlbs
Removed unnecessary bitching

[AlexLM12]

Non-rated here, selected for pilot on this Active Duty rated board. Does anyone have any insight on how an ETP might go for excessive refractive error? Technically, I am within waiverable limits for hyperopia/farsightedness, but only if I had no degraded stereopsis. Since my depth perception is not optimal (but also still decent and waiverable), I am DQ'd not for depth perception but for my eyeglass prescription/refractive error. I have gotten smart on how the ETP process functions, and have had my waiver already denied so I'm cleared to proceed. I'm just trying to get any insight on whether this is even a winnable fight. I am cleared for FC1A, FCII, FCIII, and GBO/ATC, just not FC1.

Thanks for any advice, I am just not certain I want to go through the process if there is no genuine chance given my "condition."