Depth perception issues

[Guest Run07]

Strabismus surgery is disqualifying, but waiverable assuming that 1) you are able to meet the depth perception requirements, 2) you have no diplopia in all directions of gaze out to 30 degrees, and 3) there is no significant residual tropia.

I'm baffled as to how a person would get strabismus surgery when difficult reading is the only symptom. Never heard of such a thing.

Anyhow, there is a chance at a waiver, but there will be a lot of scrutiny when you go through your FCI. Most people who are post strabismus surgery still have problems with binocular vision and many are not waivered. It all depends on how well your eyes function.

Where would I find the depth perception requirements?

[Guest goducks]

Where would I find the depth perception requirements?

The standard USAF requirement for depth perception is based on the OVT (Optec Vision Tester) and I believe it is 25 arc seconds, but that's a wag. The version the AF uses is essentially proprietary to the AF, ie. you can't get the exact slide they use, however you can look up the website if you want more info. If you can't pass the OVT, waivers are partially based on distance stereopsis using an AO Vectographic polarized slide and I think the requirement is 60 arc seconds. If findings from that test are iffy, then the final test is using a real space depth perception task called a Howard-Dohlman sp?.

Refer to section A4.12 of the AFI 48-123 vol III for more info.

Beyond depth perception, there are other tests that are done such as cover test, red lens test and 4 diopter base out, which are all designed to look for suppression and or a micro-tropia (a small misalignment that isn't cosmetically visible). Bottom line is that your eyes don't have to be perfect, but they need to be functioning fairly normally to get a waiver for a history of strabismus surgery.

That doesn't cover everything, but gives you a fairly decent idea about what is considered.

GD

[Guest JDCWelch]

I was told by my optometrist that I have fusion with defective stereopsis and me eyes apparently switch between having depth perception and not having depth perception, she said it could be months between. Everything else with my eyes is good.

I have had trouble with the depth perception test, OVT, in the past but the last two times I have gone, August and December, I passed up to the minimum requirement,"D". I failed the test in May this year and July the year before. After failing twice I started practicing with some of those 3D pictures and I feel this is a major reason why I was able to pass the last two times, and also because I was more relaxed and took my time. She is telling me that I will need a waiver to be able to fly. What are my chances of getting a waiver?

Thanks,

Chase

[Guest JollyFlight21]

Again, I've never, ever passed the depth perception test. Nor have I ever seen one of those 3D dolphin pictures or whatever they are (I've never seen them...). 8 years strong and still flying.

[VFR800]

I failed the test... only got to try the first four circles before he failed me.

But I rushed through it because they never told me to take my time (you have to if you want to pass) and because of the general atmosphere at MEPS.

I have good DP, and failed it. The first circle was super obvious, though.

The one at MEPS doesn't matter. Just take your time when you do it at the MTF for your FC1 physical, since that's the one that counts. You're going to have to take this test every year for the rest of your career, so figure it out now or it's going to be a recurring asspain. Take your f*cking time...that's the key to it.

[Guest goducks]

I was told by my optometrist that I have fusion with defective stereopsis and me eyes apparently switch between having depth perception and not having depth perception, she said it could be months between. Everything else with my eyes is good.

I have had trouble with the depth perception test, OVT, in the past but the last two times I have gone, August and December, I passed up to the minimum requirement,"D". I failed the test in May this year and July the year before. After failing twice I started practicing with some of those 3D pictures and I feel this is a major reason why I was able to pass the last two times, and also because I was more relaxed and took my time. She is telling me that I will need a waiver to be able to fly. What are my chances of getting a waiver?

Thanks,

Chase

If you fail the depth perception standard (OVT) on an intermittent basis, you would be required to have a waiver. The test that determines waiverability is generally considered to be much easier than the OVT. In my experience, if you are marginal on the OVT you I wouldn't expect any problems meeting the waiver criteria. It's the folks who can't see any of the circles on the OVT that struggle on the back-up tests.

GD

[Hawker]

Just a quick question about the depth perception test down at Brooks. I head down there in about two weeks for my IFC1/MFS for rotc and have noticed that a lot of people seem to fail the OVT. My DP seems just fine and I passed through the Dodmerb with no problems. People seem to recommend the magiceye technique to pass it though. I can see those images from magiceye.com or whatever.

My question is do you have to use that technique to pass it? or will a specific circle stand out by just looking at it normal?

Also, I have heard of a program called Prospective Defective Stereopsis management group in which folks who happened to fail the OVT but passed the battery of re-evaluation tests were put into this group and granted the waiver if they met the waiver criteria. Anyone have any further information on this?

It is found at https://aviationmedicine.com/resources/files/PDF/VFS_attachments_07/USAF%20Wavier%20Guide%20PDF.pdf

[brabus]

What has worked for me: the answer is NEVER 1 or 5. Also, trying to "relax" your eyes and look in between the circles instead of directly staring at a specific one. Do this along with a very slow scan (without stopping to intently stare at one circle). Seems like your peripheral vision helps the circles stand out. Also realize the latter lines will be much harder (sts) than the first group. Take your time and don't feel rushed.

[Guest goducks]

Just a quick question about the depth perception test down at Brooks. I head down there in about two weeks for my IFC1/MFS for rotc and have noticed that a lot of people seem to fail the OVT. My DP seems just fine and I passed through the Dodmerb with no problems. People seem to recommend the magiceye technique to pass it though. I can see those images from magiceye.com or whatever.

My question is do you have to use that technique to pass it? or will a specific circle stand out by just looking at it normal?

Also, I have heard of a program called Prospective Defective Stereopsis management group in which folks who happened to fail the OVT but passed the battery of re-evaluation tests were put into this group and granted the waiver if they met the waiver criteria. Anyone have any further information on this?

It is found at https://aviationmedicine.com/resources/files/PDF/VFS_attachments_07/USAF%20Wavier%20Guide%20PDF.pdf

You definitely do not NEED to use something like the Magiceye to pass the test, although it may help you develop the skill to a greater extent, especially for someone who struggles with the stereoscopic pictures.

I don't have the stats in front of me, but I would estimate that 80-90% of people pass the OVT. Those that do not are then given several other tests and if they pass those (about 95% do) they are enrolled in the management group you refer to and waivered. These additional tests consist of: 1. A stereopsis test using polarized lenses and a polarized projection chart and 2. A real life depth perception test where you need to align a set of rods from a distance of 20 feet.

Some people simply can't pass the OVT even though they have normal depth perception. Possibly due to the fact that the test optically simulates a distance task, but you've got your head in a box. This confuses the brain. However, if you can't pass the tests needed for a waiver, there is nearly always something wrong with the way your eyes function. Folks that fail will often have a slight eye misalignment that's not cosmetically noticeable, but degrades the binocular function. Alternatively, some folks may have a tendency to suppress (ie. periodically not use the visual input) from an eye and they are effectively working off of one eye at a time. I don't recall seeing anyone who couldn't pass the waiver requirements and didn't show something abnormal about their visual system.

[Guest Hiatus]

Sorry to resurrect this thread, but I have a related question.

I'm an USAF OTS applicant with a slated OTS class date in April. I was fortunate enough to get a pilot slot.

I had LASIK in Jun 08, resulting in my right eye being 20/15 and my left eye being 20/25. I haven't worn glasses or anything since I had the procedure.

I took my first physical at the Louisville, KY MEPS, and was able to pass the rows-of-five-circles depth perception test with a D grade (eg, could identify all circles to the end of D). That was apparently enough for the selection board, since I got my slot. The first run through of the test I failed, but I was rushed, but when they let me retake it later that day after things had died down, I passed. I stopped after getting D, however, as the tech said that was sufficient and I was already completely stressed from having failed it earlier that day.

Back in August of this year, I went up to Wright-Patterson AFB for my Initial Flight Class I physical. Again, I passed the same depth perception test up with a D grade, though it was hard and the tech forgiving of the mistake I made (I was able to get D2 and D3's rows instantly, but D1, which is in the top right corner, gave me a hard time). And again, I didn't really proceed further after getting D correct. At the end of my physical, all I was told by the flight surgeon was that they needed me to go to an optometrist and get a prescription for my left eye to prove that it could be corrected to 20/20, which I did.

Wright-Patterson called my recruiter last week (11 weeks down the line :( ) and said I had to go back up there this Wednesday and retake the depth perception test in order to do "better". I'm concerned, since I had figured a pass was a pass, and that the depth perception test stresses me out like no other. Does IFC1 require a Pass-E or Pass-F to get?

I'm also concerned that I'll lose my OTS and pilot slot if something goes wrong or I don't do "well enough" on the test. I mean, since it took them nearly three months just to tell me I needed to come back, I'm worried about the timeframes involved with getting a waiver if I need one.

Also, I never picked up glasses with the prescription I was given by my optometrist. Will those help with the test? Since I've been stuck doing min-wage part time work, I've been putting off dropping the $250 bucks for a decent pair of glasses. Cheap-o Walmart frames are out of the question since they take a week or more to process, and my return to Wright Patterson is in two days. (My recruiter had originally told me that there was an issue with my LASIK waiver, and never mentioned anything about the depth perception test until today, otherwise I would have gone to Wal-mart when I first found out).

Also, this time I'm apparently not dealing with Flight Medicine - I'm reporting straight to Optometry the morning of my test. I don't know what that implies, and I'm the first pilot applicant my recruiter has dealt with, so she doesn't know either.

Regardless, I'm off to a bookstore to get a Magic Eye book to tide me over. Any other advice would be greatly appreciated.

Edited November 15, 2010 by Hiatus

[Guest goducks]

Hiatus,

You don't have to do better than D to pass so it doesn't make sense that they want you to do "better." Glasses may help, depending on the type of prescription. If you don't get a pair of glasses yourself, they should make a temporary pair for testing, although glasses that are fabricated can be optically better than the temporaries.

I'm not sure why you're going directly to Optometry unless they need to do a refraction to know what lenses to use for testing. The depth perception is tested at the FSO, although Optometry would do some additional depth perceptions tests if you don't pass at the flight doc's office.

Bottom line is that it sounds like you're doing OK. Based on what you've reported you don't need a waiver. Even if you do, waivers for DP are not terribly uncommon as long as you meet the requirements.

[tlr9489]

I will be going for my FC1 physical at Wright-Patterson soon (within the next few months). I did terrible at MEPS on the OVT-DP test, and I'm concerned I'll fail it again at the FC1. I have stocked up on Magic Eye books and can get some of them right after practicing for awhile. I practiced the test at MEPS again. They set the machine up for me, and let me test out the different strategies, I've been reading about in this thread. I also practiced at the clinic at my Guard base. I don't think I'm getting any better. I am meeting with my eye doctor next week to test DP, and see if he can find out what the issue is or how I may improve my DP. Could someone please tell me any specific things I should be asking? I assume knowing how much arc I can see is important (hopefully, 25 seconds, and no worse than 60 seconds). Is there anything else that would be valuable to know prior to heading to W-P?

I had PRK in 2008, and tested at 20/20 in both eyes. I passed all other vision tests with no problems at MEPS. I have been using eye drops more frequently to see if that may help. My right eye has felt weaker since my surgery, and I know my left eye is dominant, so I wonder if my eyes aren't working together properly to determine depth. My PRK surgeon said that he corrects the left eye for better distant viewing and the right for closer viewing, so it shouldn't be too much of an issue... This had sounded odd to me, and I wonder if it is affecting my DP.

Thanks for any help.

[Royal]

I failed my depth test at MEPS too, and I sucked at taking it for a couple goes after that. Now it's no big deal. Things clicked for me after I stopped psyching myself out about it and just took my time. I'm not an ophthalmologist, but my best advice is to go back to the clinic at your unit and take your time with test. Let your eyes un-focus, focus, and un-focus again. Using your peripheral vision can help too.